XP against AI

By on July 1, 2013 12:25:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

GFireflyE

Join Date 05/2011
+63


Good Morning

One aspect of this game that I have always felt lacking was the pittence of XP you received from defeating AI units and armies.

Don't have much to offer here as the system that would be created would be a difficult task indeed, but perhaps a few rules of thumb could be implemented to help out:

  1. When an opponent hero is involved in the combat, grant double XP?
  2. When an opponent sovereign is involved in the combat, grant triple XP?
  3. When you wipe out an opponent faction --> Get fame reward and that last battle grants you quadruple XP?

Stuff like that....

 

Locked Post 18 Replies +1
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 1, 2013 2:44:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great suggestions.

AI armies not giving much xp was always a bit of a bummer. Your solution is very elegant, imo. And a little fame to compensate for the bad rep you get for wiping out a faction would be a nice gesture.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 1, 2013 5:50:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So, you want a way get even stronger, even faster

So, you could use all the high end skills and spells, next I assume would be a request to make cities generate more mana

Ohh my, poor AI is in trouble, as if it weren't already!

 

The only way this is acceptable is if AI gains XP faster.

And then you will get more XP for defeating higher level opponents.

I suggest there would be an option when creating a new game to let AI gain XP twice as fast.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 5:35:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can see darkiemond's point about already getting plenty of XP, but I agree with GFireflyE that it's pretty lacking compared to monster XP.  The main problem I have is that I tend to split my champs up about 2 per army; if one army is attacking the AI and the other is, say, clearing out Wildlands, the Wildlands army/champs will be getting FAR more XP than the one actually defending the land (or more likely, attacking).  

Seems like taking out one of your enemy's Level 4 cities defended by a Deadly garrison should be worth more than mopping the floor with yet another Troll Shaman Army.

I suppose there's something to be said for encouraging the buildup of your champs through monster-hunting rather than early aggression against AI factions...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 6:41:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quest exp and armies exp hilariously low. I defeated sovereign and killed legendary armies but cave bear gave me more exp.. probably because that was legendary cave bear.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 6:47:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It is very low to maintain some balance in the game, and to prevent the winning side steamrolling over the entire map (win one game -> much more likely to win next -> win whole map)

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 7:01:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

It is very low to maintain some balance in the game, and to prevent the winning side steamrolling over the entire map (win one game -> much more likely to win next -> win whole map)

 

Game is already steamrolling when we kill creeps or beat sovereings. determine who win game is often who won early game and got more creeps. unless someone make serious mistake in battle or tech.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 7:36:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

True, but at least we're not steamrolling as a result of getting huge XP from fighting other factions. Anyone else remember the untouchable demigods from early FE that you had after ~3 fights with another faction? I don't see a reason to take a big step back.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 4:35:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

To be honest it feels like a step back how it is now. I have fond memories of late FE having high level Sov's after a tough game who where quiet potent. In FE:LH i'm just getting more and more annoyed. The game is great fun, but leveling is pathetically slow. Plowing through 3 deadly armies that could potentially cripple my main stack is worth almost nothing. 

 There has to be a better middle ground. The values as they are just seem way way to low compared to the world.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 6, 2013 5:16:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting MysticMJ,

  In FE:LH i'm just getting more and more annoyed. The game is great fun, but leveling is pathetically slow. Plowing through 3 deadly armies that could potentially cripple my main stack is worth almost nothing. 

 There has to be a better middle ground. The values as they are just seem way way to low compared to the world.  

+1

I'm not playing this game for some kind of masochistic thrill. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 8, 2013 4:48:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I dont enjoy killing AI armies and getting nothing for it either...especially when that stops me from killing monsters so I can actually flipping level up.

 

If the AI exp HAS to be so low to balance the game...maybe the AI should stop sending so many fodder units my way and send more substantial ones.

 

The constant stream of fodder units only serves to make me put my main army in "swat the annoying stream of obviously fail armies coming my way for no gain" mode, until I can get a 2ndary army to take over so my main one can level and do a few quests.

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 9, 2013 3:59:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Getting more XP when killing enemy heroes seems reasonable. Anything more than that would make AI bashing too much the obvious thing to do. As it is currently, even with the low XP it's still usually the better strategy to kill the AI rather than go questing, but at least I think briefly about whether I want to do a quest detour to get a level and a good item before attacking the AI.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 9, 2013 5:08:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Fame seems more appropriate than extra XP, which can remain sort of tied to threat level.

AI champions and sovereigns aren't necessarily that dangerous, anyway, especially once they've been injured a few times or the sovereign's been defeated a couple of times and his side's mana pool has been drastically cut.  Giving an automatic XP bonus just for their presence would make farming enemy champions viable because they can't actually die unless the AI decides they've finally been crippled into uselessness and uses Steal Spirit on them, and I don't know that the AI ever does.

Not too impressed by AI-controlled city garrisons.  The city troops are not terribly experienced, aren't pre-buffed with Nature's Cloak or Evasion or whatever (not even existing until the battle), tend to have iffy magic resistance (a dragon can solo cities often, just from fear giving such an edge; confusion, contagion + curse, Mass Curse, Pandemonium, Titan's Breath, other nasty approaches abound against troops with unremarkable magic resistance, which they'll probably have unless there's a magic-resistance-path Defender in town), guardian wind greatly hampers arrow fire (and there's no way for a defending mage champion to dispel such an enchantment, either)... I had an champion-heavy numerically small but heavily enchanted army with ~150 attack/120 defense (total)  and no summoning magic utterly destroy Yithil garrisons with 700+ attack because the garrisons couldn't deal well with the chokes on city maps and they couldn't bring all their melee weapons to bear at once, nor were they prepared to deal with the odd fireball.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 9, 2013 9:11:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

It is very low to maintain some balance in the game, and to prevent the winning side steamrolling over the entire map (win one game -> much more likely to win next -> win whole map)

Wouldn't this just be positive and a desired behavior? Once you start defeating the first few AI armies you have pretty much won anyway. This would just make the mopping up faster and more fun.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
July 9, 2013 10:04:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting jonasadolphson,
Wouldn't this just be positive and a desired behavior? Once you start defeating the first few AI armies you have pretty much won anyway. This would just make the mopping up faster and more fun.

I'm not convinced. This is clearly a matter of taste, but personally I think the balance is fine (although possibly there could be more of a bonus for killing enemy heroes). Currently in my games there's at least some mix between killing an AI, going on quests, building up my kingdom before attacking another AI, deciding whether I want to kill the last AI, do the quest or do the Spell of Making, etc.

If you get lots of XP for killing the first AI, then the quests and building your kingdom parts become more or less optional. The way this is implemented with very low XP for killing AIs is not very subtle, perhaps a better way could be found, but I don't mind particularly as long as it makes the game more fun. And personally I think the fact that the current system promotes a more mixed strategy does make it more fun.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
September 19, 2013 11:50:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Now that the AI has been improved in 1.3, has there been any thought to improving the XP gained from defeating these adversaries now?

As is, avoiding fights with the AI is the surest way to win the game easily. Being rewarded for defeating AI, or at least stong groups led by heroes or the sovereign, would go a long way into wanting to engage the AI in combat and wars.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
September 19, 2013 2:35:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


At first I was surprised that you didn't get the AI Sov's magic items (as you do in HoMM). This would probably be unbalancing, but I agree with more Xp or perhaps one random item from the AI. If the game doesn't track AI magic items (for some reason) then it can be just a created random item.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
September 19, 2013 4:06:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NeoNick7,


At first I was surprised that you didn't get the AI Sov's magic items (as you do in HoM). This would probably be unbalancing, but I agree with more Xp or perhaps one random item from the AI. If the game doesn't track AI magic items (for some reason) then it can be just a created random item.
  Yeah this is what I'd suggest, one of the ai's random items (or yours) are transferred if you lose.  I know death isn't permanent or whatever in this game so that seems a good compromise between transferring everything and transferring nothing, like now

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
September 19, 2013 4:07:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting smeagolheart,



Quoting NeoNick7,
reply 16


At first I was surprised that you didn't get the AI Sov's magic items (as you do in HoM). This would probably be unbalancing, but I agree with more Xp or perhaps one random item from the AI. If the game doesn't track AI magic items (for some reason) then it can be just a created random item.  Yeah this is what I'd suggest, one of the ai's random items (or yours) are transferred if you lose.  I know death isn't permanent or whatever in this game so that seems a good compromise between transferring everything and transferring nothing, like now

Interesting idea. Though, the AI would have to be somewhat sensible in the utilization of items. None of that 50 bracers stuff that happens.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #101114  walnut1   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000609   Page Render Time: