Too easy?

By on June 6, 2013 12:22:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

theemaster

Join Date 06/2013
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I've logged about 80 hours now or so on "legendary heroes" and I find it too easy.. yah, know get yourself a cave/maul bear into your army with a collar/spell and you are semi-unstoppable..

 

In all my hours of playing.. I have yet to even build one army in my cities or need one..? in fact cities seem a waste! (purposeless), be attacked by the AI (one time)? and when I take my armies against the AI I just crush e'm anyway.. this game reminds me of "age of wonders" which was also a easy game.. cept it wasn't ALWAYS easy..

 

I've tried turning up the settings on my single player games.. but I still find it too easy.. I think maybe the problem is the monsters help me level up/equipment up so easily and or get that "cave bear" that I become unstoppable so I'm thinking of removing monsters which will make me have to go to war for experience etc.

 

Am I the only that finds the game easy.. the AI incompetent or what? Is there something I'm missing..? I'm running games on insane now and while there's a few monsters I can't beat with no losses "yet" a large percentage I could do within 20 to 50 turns

I've only beaten one game so far and that was the scenario which just go so boorrrrring (cause too easy) in my expert/insane games I haven't even bothered to beat it.. cause it was "too easy" I would like to try building armies for my heroes..? but seems pointless cause I haven't needed it so far.. at least turning off the monsters I believe that will change it

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June 6, 2013 12:48:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You probably aren't missing anything. I brought up the same point that when you increase the monster level (like to 'insane') it actually makes the game even easier because of the experience increase that comes with it. On the flip side, it's fairly time consuming to gain experience against AI armies (and some variations of monsters, like skeletons,) but not necessarily more difficult in the long run.

Right now, if you want "real" difficulty you need to avoid tactical battles entirely and just let the game resolve every conflict. The challenge definitely feels like it was built around that mechanic.

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June 6, 2013 12:49:15 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The AI is incompetent.  It's pretty clear.  They are told to build a crapload of cities as fast as possible with little thought for defense or infrastructure. 

 

As I've said in reviews prior to the expansion and will say again, this game dies after you've explored a bit and killed all the monsters.  There is really very little reason to play once you're down to other AI empires as you've already won at that point-- it's just a matter of time.  They've got to find a way to engage you in later-game content, because it just isn't there right now. 

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June 6, 2013 1:20:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, there definitely comes a point where I've pretty obviously won and it's just a question of how I want to finish. It's to the game's credit that I still have fun. The monsters and quests are a lot more challenging than the AI, so generally I entertain myself getting a dragon, or maybe taking on the quest victory.

As I've said on half a dozen occasions, the AI needs work. It's too easy to roll over AIs after the early game. Two or three battles and it's pretty much over.  I'm really hoping that they'll take some time to improve the AI. Building better heroes would help. Assembling stacks better would help. Writing a "defensive" AI (when you're in its borders) would help. Taking available goodies and outposts would help.

The Fog Of War thread suggests it's making some pretty bad errors with how it runs its cities as well, which is particularly important at the start, and I would hope could be fixed fairly easily.

Speaking as a programmer myself I'm aware this stuff isn't easy. You can make a change and things get worse because of an unexpected side-effect. Empire: Total War famously was released with AI which was "paralysed by indecision". But as a one player game we are dependent on a decent AI to provide a rewarding challenge, and if the game is selling well enough I really hope they take the time to improve it.

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June 6, 2013 1:47:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Incidentally, are you using a custom sovereign? If you're finding it too easy with a custom sovereign... don't use a custom sovereign. If you're finding it too easy with Tame... pick a sovereign without Tame.

I'm not saing that the game gets that much more difficult at that point, but you may conceivably find a point for building troops!

I experimented once with a custom sovereign, but since then I've used the standard ones, and I haven't chosen the same sovereign twice. They all play slightly differently. Even if the game is sometimes a bit easy, you can still have fun experimenting with different strategies.

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June 6, 2013 1:52:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

One thing that might help the Devs is for you to put up a save game where you have played awhile and are winning and they can take a look at the strategy you are using and then make adjustments from that.  

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June 6, 2013 2:10:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What you could do is open ElementalDefs.xml, find "CombatRatingToExpMultiplier" and reduce the number. That would give you less exp for killing things
Or maybe you'd rather nerf the Maul ability? It can be done in the file CareSpells.xml, by increasing the accuracy reduction number from 15 in the formula

Modifying the game feels like cheating, but it's much better to modify the game for yourself than to sit there with a game that you are not satisfied with.

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June 6, 2013 2:31:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


another thing you could do is make units for every faction so they have more unit choice to use against you. If you don't play a faction it hampers them, since every unit you make for a faction has a chance to be used when the ai plays that faction.

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June 6, 2013 2:50:04 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

What I don't understand why people bother to play games they find too easy, and then post on a message board and complain about it.

How insecure must someone be to feel the need to brag how good they are.

There are a million different games out there. Just put LH down and move on.

 

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June 6, 2013 3:08:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,
What I don't understand why people bother to play games they find too easy, and then post on a message board and complain about it.

How insecure must someone be to feel the need to brag how good they are.

There are a million different games out there. Just put LH down and move on.

I don't agree.
A player should be allowed to ask the developers for more challenge. Challenge is what makes a game fun.
Also, if you look around at this forum, there are several people who play the game at the highest difficulties. Does that mean they are all bragging? Is it not possible that some people are better than others, and thus need more challenge to have fun?

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June 6, 2013 3:25:02 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kogni,



Quoting Borg999,
reply 8
What I don't understand why people bother to play games they find too easy, and then post on a message board and complain about it.

How insecure must someone be to feel the need to brag how good they are.

There are a million different games out there. Just put LH down and move on.
I don't agree.
A player should be allowed to ask the developers for more challenge. Challenge is what makes a game fun.
Also, if you look around at this forum, there are several people who play the game at the highest difficulties. Does that mean they are all bragging? Is it not possible that some people are better than others, and thus need more challenge to have fun?

Stating that you play the game on the higher levels is not bragging. He did more than just state it.

He also called the game boring, his join date is June, and his user name seems to have come from his ego.

Smily usage nonwithstanding...

Seems borderline trollish to me, when the purpose of your first post is to trash the subject of the forum.

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June 6, 2013 5:12:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,

What I don't understand why people bother to play games they find too easy, and then post on a message board and complain about it.

How insecure must someone be to feel the need to brag how good they are.

There are a million different games out there. Just put LH down and move on.

 
Agree.

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June 6, 2013 5:24:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The fundamental AI issue is well, the way Brad plays is too predictable,so you can always build up patiently.  (Brad's AI skills are fine, it's the overall strategy that the AI uses every time that makes it predictable, and predictable AI ends up easy)

 

I think if the AI would effectively rush you down more it would be more of a challenge.

 

What I would do is have a random variable that determines how the AI would act, influenced by sovereign personality but still random, to determine how aggressive the AI is.

 

This sort of AI setting should be challenging and above only.

 

I do end up abandoning most of my games due to lack of challenge and a rather boring endgame (the last part is endemic to 4X in general- one reason why I'm curious how At the Gates will handle this given that Jon says he wants to solve that problem)

 

 

 

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June 6, 2013 5:55:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Posts like these make me chuckle...

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June 6, 2013 7:05:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,

What I don't understand why people bother to play games they find too easy, and then post on a message board and complain about it.

How insecure must someone be to feel the need to brag how good they are.

There are a million different games out there. Just put LH down and move on.

 

 

this is on insane/insane? cus if ju just play easy just change diffs and crate custom units like fire res and youll have a hard time slogging thorugh them with a mage. i know  i cant compete at insane/insane yet cus of the same altair fire res leather cloaks that i crated earlier makes the game moore fun for me gotta give ceresa som fun stuffs been ages since ive played her. happy creating and my ais usually perform god with the units i have given them.

 

if you have done all that well just brag with one lets play video. that will get the publishers attention and maybee they will patch in some goodie hardness for you

 

btw scenario is on easy check if you have a save youll see diff sets.

 

and yeah depending on your traits cavebears rock

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June 8, 2013 11:32:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,
I think if the AI would effectively rush you down more it would be more of a challenge.
Yah, let me be clear in "age of wonders 2" the AI would just kind of send troops at yah.. all the time.. it was annoying.. but at least they were "trying"

I noticed in the scenario.. that the friendly and enemy AI sent troops at yah all the time.. aka the allies were constantly ATTACKING the enemies.. and I'm not quite sure I understood exactly what that weird "castle" was above your 1st city..?

How hard would it be to put a setting in to have the AI's launch attacks.. make you "defend"?  

I have to say when the game fails to "create a challenge" for me.. I invent my own And the turning off of monsters and quests (whatever I did in the settings) has helped a lot.. my game got like x3 harder.. might have been a lot easier if I had just taken the "beast master" perk but without it.. it's been semi-hell.. I'm 50 turns in.. only like level 6/level 7 only have 2 heroes and..

I didn't know that even turning it off that there are still "monster zones" and random quests and that's too bad cause if they weren't there.. I would focus on only attacking the AI cities/kingdoms/empires.. but I've spent 90% of my game fighting in those monsters zones.. winning tough battles/gaining experience.. I suspect when all is said and done.. I have elite units capable of ripping to shreds any of the AI's..

Spamming the hell out of the save/load mana/money/fame creator (which is a bit sad? a bit) but a viable/usable cheat.. I'm only 8 saves/turns away from getting a 3rd hero finally (erog's tower costs like 2041 gold to "rush" so yah know )

Why did they design the game to give you new mana/money on every load.. do I have a outdated copy?

Quoting Alstein,
I do end up abandoning most of my games due to lack of challenge and a rather boring endgame (the last part is endemic to 4X in general- one reason why I'm curious how At the Gates will handle this given that Jon says he wants to solve that problem)

Yes, as I said.. I've abandoned 2 of my games as well.. and I've only played umm.. now 4 games.. (1 was scenario) and god the SCENARIO was borring.. somewhere about 10-20 hours in.. it just became hella boring.. and the only game I've won so far was the scenario.. I just decided to rush through it.. only took me like 5-7 mage casts to win that tower.. I dunno if that's average..? but the tower was pretty weak too

 

------------------ 

What I will say again about my current game is that the AI for the towns etc. is "passive" as usual.. maybe 1 time they tried to "declare war?" one thing I remember about civilization 4 or 5 is some people programmed the AI to always kind of attack you.. certain ones.. like the japs or something? They'd be aggressive as I remember? And there are aggressive races/kingdoms in the game.. there just "not that" aggressive..

 

I mean man if that yithril guy declared war on turn 20 or 10 or 30.. and brought out those maulers.. then that would be 1 tough game..

 

My play style is pretty simple.. I'm a save and loader.. not a lot of people necessarily have patience for that.. but in that way.. I always/usually get the best outcome in any battle.. and I know many/some people play like me in civilization/king's bounty etc.

 

I was thinking recently what the game really needs is true AI.. not fake

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June 8, 2013 12:15:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,
I think if the AI would effectively rush you down more it would be more of a challenge.
Yes, I want to say clearly.. if the computer would attack you a lot more.. harder! It would also make for some great defense..

I know the game has all kinds of defensive buildings and spells.. but I've never had to defend yet, I don't even know how that stuff works.. or "why" you need it?

Age of wonders 2 I think really had the defense stuff down good or the walls etc. were cool

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June 8, 2013 12:23:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The game is too easy.  Mainly because there are a lot of utterly overpowered abilities which exist in this game.  A player can easily take advantage of them, but the AI cannot.  And the AI seems to run around like a headless chicken most of the game, rarely attacking the player.

 I'm hoping for more balancing and AI changes, and knowing stardock, they'll get around to it... eventually (with additional expansions and such probably).

 As it is, I'm just playing this game for now, but as soon as Rome 2: Total War and Age of Wonders 3 come out (I think they're August and October 2013?) this game is probably off my PC permanently, unless there are some massive AI and balancing changes.

 

It's was fun figuring out the game and how to play it, but once you do, there's no challenge to it whatsoever, which makes it boring.

 

This is playing the game without ever loading saves (I now have autosaves turned off due to its bugs).  If I lose a battle, I lose it, not that I ever lose battles anymore (I did the first few playthroughs, but it's easy to figure out how strong/weak the enemy is after getting some experience in the game).

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June 8, 2013 2:24:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If you are looking for challenge, it is true, you have to make your own set of rules. I play only default nations on insane/insane with lots of opponents and spare resources. Trying to win with Tarth is nothing but easy ... I also play an iron mode and do not use CTRL+N for good starting place. Another idea is to play a crazy guy - declare a war to whomever you meet and refuse to sign a peace With those setting i have a real challenge quite often, including games i have lost. 

But i have to admit that game became more easy now due to stress on tactical battles (through weapons special abilities) and population cost of pioneers - AI is just not good at those. In FE numbers would always win - and AI would always expand very fast, and have lots of heavy troops with no way to counter it. The only way to win was to create a really tricky overpowered strategy.

 

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June 8, 2013 3:20:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


no worries people, the frog has said that he can go ahead with new ai stuff now that people are chatting about how easy it is and putting videos up on how they stomped the computer. Now you know who to blame when the ai does it to you after the next update or so.

next patch: I predict daggers to be op. and the bludgeon special to get hit with the nerf bat.

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June 8, 2013 3:44:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Ohh, yah civ4 has a "always war" feature.. that'd probably be nice for a different kind of game

 

Yah, know it's weird but "fall from heaven 2" is a famous civ4 mod.. I've played a lot of them.. (civ4 mods) but I could never stand to play that one for "some" reason.. but I like what that games looks like in FE etc.

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June 8, 2013 3:49:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting theemaster,



My play style is pretty simple.. I'm a save and loader.. not a lot of people necessarily have patience for that.. but in that way.. I always/usually get the best outcome in any battle.. and I know many/some people play like me in civilization/king's bounty etc.
 

you complain that the game is too easy when you reload every lost battle? dude that has to be one of the dumbest complaints i have ever read on the internet. of course the game is too easy when you cheat. how could an AI ever deal with a player who just reloads after losing?

 

 

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June 8, 2013 6:59:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Azunai_,

Quoting theemaster, reply 15
My play style is pretty simple.. I'm a save and loader.. not a lot of people necessarily have patience for that.. but in that way.. I always/usually get the best outcome in any battle.. and I know many/some people play like me in civilization/king's bounty etc.

you complain that the game is too easy when you reload every lost battle? dude that has to be one of the dumbest complaints i have ever read on the internet. of course the game is too easy when you cheat. how could an AI ever deal with a player who just reloads after losing?
 [/quote]

Got to agree on this. Most games have a lot of RNG, especially 4x games. Reloading the game at every bad outcome is like rolling your dice repeatedly until you get 6 on every die.

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June 8, 2013 9:28:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Azunai_,


Quoting theemaster, reply 15


My play style is pretty simple.. I'm a save and loader.. not a lot of people necessarily have patience for that.. but in that way.. I always/usually get the best outcome in any battle.. and I know many/some people play like me in civilization/king's bounty etc.
 



you complain that the game is too easy when you reload every lost battle? dude that has to be one of the dumbest complaints i have ever read on the internet. of course the game is too easy when you cheat. how could an AI ever deal with a player who just reloads after losing?

 

 

 

Totally agree.  Makes me think the OP is trolling or just not disciplined enough to keep himself from always taking the easy way out.

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June 9, 2013 12:46:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

easy? Stop S/L and you find what's easy...

I won't stop all S/L, but I try to use it as least as possible. I agree in the early game you might have to a little because you have to get a reasonable start since AI getting early advantage. 

 

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June 9, 2013 2:25:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think there is a widely different meaning of challenge to people who play this game. I have never heard of save/loading as a legitimate strategy, it is something only available to the human player and it disables many mechanics that make the game difficult. There are also a lot of overpowered racial abilities that if maximized amount to an absurd advantage, but to the vast majority of players they are just a fun advantage they don't ever maximize. This game pleases the many at the expense of the few in many respects.

I still think the best way to solve challenge issues is to have a world vs players/AI mode. It is practically already possible with some simple adjustments, it could be suped up to a full-blooded expansion feature with some care. There was a mod (Master's Affliction) that apparently did it well but has not been updated for LH (I never played it for FE). Since the difficulty of the world can be adjusted to any magnitude imaginable, and there is not a pretense that the world is "playing" like the player, it is a mode that can satisfy everyone (and it is not just people looking for a challenge who could be hooked).

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