LH Steam Workshop Support?

By on May 29, 2013 3:54:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Burress

Join Date 06/2006
+15

Does Stardock plan to use Steam Workshop for mod delivery?

This will make a world of difference in developing the mod community. The biggest incentive to develop mods is that lots of people will like and use your work. The biggest incentive for the player to mod their game is that it is easy to do/undo. Steam Workshop is the way to incentivize both. It doesn't get any easier for the player than the Workshop, which is right next to the launch button on the game, and where installing/uninstalling a mod means hitting a subscribe button. Steam users have come to expect this convenience. I don't see a huge portion of Steam users going to a third-party website, downloading a file, and following installation instructions.

Even if it is a lot of work for this game, it may be worthwhile to develop a Steam Workshop platform anyway if Stardock plans to go Steam-only from here on out.

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athelasloraiel
May 29, 2013 4:11:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 

I'll be very disappointed if this game does not utilise the Steam Workshop.

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May 29, 2013 6:10:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I doubt this will happen. As of right now, only certain types of mods can be placed in the mods folders, others need to be placed over game files to overwrite them. Also, unless the game becomes more moddable, I doubt we will see a huge amount of mods even though there are quite a few things you can mod.

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May 29, 2013 6:43:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I have no intersest in having this game utilize steam workshop.

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May 29, 2013 6:44:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GFireflyE,


I have no intersest in having this game utilize steam workshop.

Why? What is the downside?

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May 29, 2013 9:39:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Burress,



Quoting GFireflyE,
reply 3


I have no intersest in having this game utilize steam workshop.


Why? What is the downside?

the downside is that I would not make use of it.

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May 30, 2013 1:05:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I concur with GFirefly.  I would not use it either. 

Never was a big fan of "automatic mod updates"; another downside is when I think of games like Torchlight 2 (among others), the workshop actually stifled all modding potential by limiting how many mods you can install at a time.  Which instead of making modding an open-ended, valuable, and enjoyable experience -- into an annoying chore with far too many rules. 

 

I vastly prefer installing mods manually, having full control what goes into my game, updating them whenever I choose, and not be limited by silly restrictions. I'm perfectly happy solely using these forums, and perhaps on rare occasion, the nexus.

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May 30, 2013 2:37:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Both are possible, side by side. But I personally would prefer steam workshop integration. By that I mean REAL steam workshop integration, including an in-game mod manager.

As the game saves all xml data in each save file, having automatically updated mods doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Your old saves would remain unchanged, after all.

Steam workshop is ridiculously easy to use, which I think is something this game badly needs. As a suposedly mod-friendly game, I find it strange that they haven't put more effort into making it easy to use. This is partially to blame for the fact that (my estimate) less than 2% of people ever try mods that buy a game like FE.

Steam workshop is so easy to use that I guesstimate we could easily see mod usage up in the ~10% if it was integrated well. And to me, every user is a potential modder/bugreporter/feedback-giver. Steam workshop, to me, would definitely be a net boon to the modding community that has failed to grow beyond smallish for E:wom and FE.

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May 30, 2013 3:29:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would never have used or created a mod for Torchlight 2 had it not been so easy. I have no idea of the numbers, but as pure speculation some games that are extremely popular probably attract a mod-user population of maybe up to 50% (thinking Skyrim here). I doubt this many would use it for LH, but that is also because I suspect at some point the Steam population playing the game won't be very active, and especially during sales people sometimes barely play the games they buy at all.

The main boon from games like Skyrim and Torchlight on the workshop is that impressions are changing about modding to the idea that using mods is easy, rather than a hassle to track down and a technical chore to install like they have been forever before. So one would only expect mod populations to continue to grow, and a bustling mod community is only an attraction to the game, which users may weigh favorably in purchasing even if they never get around to using. And there are the unforseen intangibles of extending the modding community, who knows what benefits may be reaped from doing an awesome thing for hardworking volunteers?

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May 30, 2013 6:14:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

yes, Id love steam workshop integration for this and all future Stardock products.

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May 30, 2013 2:00:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BlackRainZ,

I doubt this will happen. As of right now, only certain types of mods can be placed in the mods folders, others need to be placed over game files to overwrite them. Also, unless the game becomes more moddable, I doubt we will see a huge amount of mods even though there are quite a few things you can mod.

I am not sure what the technical and security considerations are with using the Workshop. It seems like the issue of overwriting core game files can be solved by:

1. Loading the mod files in an order from a mod menu at startup

2. Ordering them in the mod folder this way

3. Using either the unaltered game file if no mod existed or the last file from the mod folder if one did

This puts stability at the mercy of modders, but people expect crashes from modded games to be the modder's fault.

I don't know what kind of security problem can occur with mods, and what kind of liability that puts Steam/Stardock with. I know the games that I have played with mods on the Workshop have all been created almost entirely with developer provided tools. I know that a lot of modding work is outside Stardock's provided tools and involves writing XML files. I know enough about security to know there is probably a danger there, but that is not my area of speciality.

I think visibility and the size of the audience adds huge incentives to modders. Modding is a showcase of ingenuity and creativity, multiplying the size of the audience through user-convenience would seem to be exactly what modders want.

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May 30, 2013 6:57:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You don't understand. There are many things you can not mod unless you mode core files in the game directory. They can't be added to a mod folder. I guess it could potentially swap files so that you could return to vanilla files or mod files with a single button or something. I seriously doubt they are going to do this considering they haven't even fixed tons of other issues with modding.

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May 30, 2013 7:43:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I understand that is the way it works now, but there is no reason it has to work that way. It is not much work at all to pull data in the order I gave in the post above, just change the logic of where you open the data files from. Stardock would have to rewrite the code to do this, but it would be just about the easiest thing in the world they could do for modders, if some other consideration wasn't stopping them. (the mod menu I suggested would be UI, so I don't how much work that would be, but the open file logic is simple)

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May 30, 2013 10:22:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Heh, well, we have been asking for something for years and it hasn't happened. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.

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