Starting equipment is a joke

By on May 23, 2013 10:46:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

lpisko

Join Date 05/2010
+1

I think there needs to be more choice in the equipment we can pick when creating your sovereign - if I want to spend points on magic, good or even basic armor/weapons/items I should be able to. Sorry to seem moody here because I love your game having played the three iterations for over 300 hours at this point but this really annoys me. Seriously, the only possible piece of armor all of these Channeler's from every possible corner of ~10 different civilizations could find in this whole world is the Gauntlets of Grazna.

I want to really differentiate my Faction leaders and I feel that I am always grabbing for the same items every game or I don't even look at the equipment list because it doesn't even matter. If I can continuously change back and forth between male and female to get the right look it would be really great to have more gear and be able to random that as well.

Also where did the hunter's bow go? Its even harder to build a bow champion now because you have to count on random treasures or wait to the end of the tech tree for a good bow. If I have to wait til the end of the tech tree my games are usually over.

* would love to try a leader with zero traits and spend all my points on great starting equipment.

What say you? 

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May 23, 2013 10:48:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Sorry I did forget the Dragonfly Bracers.

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May 23, 2013 11:22:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If you don't like your starting equipment, you can open the sovereign's XML file with an editor or even just Notepad and change things around.

It is also possible to mod items in for customisation:

Copy an entry from CoreItems.xml/CoreWeapons.xml/CoreArmor.xml and paste into a new file.  For example, the Amulet of Flames starts with this:

<GameItemType InternalName="AmuletOfFlames">

and ends with this:

</GameItemType>

You'll want to use a different internal name (what's in the quotes above!) to differentiate it from the item you copied.

 

To make an item available for sovereign creation, add/change this tag to the item:

<IsAvailableForSovereignCustomization>1</IsAvailableForSovereignCustomization>

If you want to charge one point for adding an item, use this tag:

<CustomizationPointCost>1</CustomizationPointCost>

Finally, you're going to want to add or change this so that your rank and file units don't have access to it:

<HeroOnly>1</HeroOnly>

<IsAvailableForUnitDesign>0</IsAvailableForUnitDesign>



I know that modding isn't for the faint of heart, but you'll know (having sunk 300 hours into it) what you would like to see added, so it's a lot quicker and easier for you to do it.

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May 24, 2013 10:44:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I appreciate the effort, but I don't think I could handle modding myself. shouldn't this be easy for the Devs to turn on? I mean whats wrong with more variety?

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May 24, 2013 10:52:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting lpisko,


I appreciate the effort, but I don't think I could handle modding myself. shouldn't this be easy for the Devs to turn on? I mean whats wrong with more variety?

By "turn on", do you mean for them to modify the game to fit your explicit desire? To start off with very low end weapons is the standard for anything with RPG design. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with what you want, but it doesn't seem to fit with their vision for the game. I would guess most people enjoy the time in upgrading their characters, or making an early find exciting.

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May 24, 2013 11:15:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

hm don't know if the starting gear is too weak. a sov gets 6 customization points i think, so buying a full suit of leather armor for 2 points or something doesn't sound too appealing. wouldn't hurt to have some more option, though. a decent bow for archers wouldn't hurt, since bows are pretty rare (i tend to find about a dozen melee weapons for each ranged weapon).

melee items are fine i think - you'll find lots of swords/daggers/axes etc. in lairs and treasure chests soon enough and the gauntlets, the bracers and the amulet are very nice. 

mage items are solid, too. the 25% spell damage staff is great for spelldamage sovs and the crown is borderline overpowered for summoners. one of the mana discount mage robes would be cool for support/healer spellcasters, but not really necessary i guess. 

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May 24, 2013 11:31:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


all low end weapons / armor would be fine - they tell me to customize my backstory to fit my person and then I have a backstory of a blacksmith that doesn't have the ability to start with any armor, or a hunter that was raised in the desolated lands and has been hunting for his whole life but they best he could come by is a crude shortbow. this doesn't jive with what we are supposed to be able to do. if we are supposed to create then yes I want to be able to be creative and more choice is necessary for the to happen.

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May 24, 2013 11:36:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


look I love this game but I think if they want people to keep playing it in different ways then we need to feel there is sooo much we haven't tried or done yet and having an idea at the beginning of playing then realizing I was pigeonholed into the same old thing make me and I think other eventually go in a different direction and eventually when I am bored enough begin playing something else.

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May 24, 2013 12:22:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Um, if you notice, there is a fairly limited number of items available for sov customisation.  These items have to show up only on that screen, nowhere else.  The reason why there isn't more variety is because those same steps that I just explained would have to be used to create those items.  It is not as simple as just flicking a number to 1.

If you don't want to be pigeonholed (and after 300 hours of playing, you probably want some variety) then I highly recommend modding in your own items.  You can even supply a description which fits with your own particular vision for that character.  Here, see this example:

 

<GameItemTypes>
    <DataChecksum NoParse="1">
        <Ignore>DispName</Ignore>
        <Translate>DisplayName,Description</Translate>
    </DataChecksum>
    <GameItemType InternalName="SwordOfTruth">
        <DisplayName>Sword of Truth</DisplayName>
        <Description>In any other hands, this is just a piece of steel, but in the hands of the Seeker, it bestows the power to fight evil.</Description>
        <Type>Weapon</Type>
        <Type>Defense</Type>
        <WeaponType>TwoHanded</WeaponType>
        <WeaponUpgradeType>Blade</WeaponUpgradeType>
        <CanBeEquipped>1</CanBeEquipped>
        <ShopValue>150</ShopValue>
        <GameModifier>
            <ModType>Unit</ModType>
            <Attribute>AdjustUnitStat</Attribute>
            <StrVal>UnitStat_Attack_Pierce</StrVal>
            <Value>28</Value>
        </GameModifier>
        <GameModifier>
            <ModType>Unit</ModType>
            <Attribute>AdjustUnitStat</Attribute>
            <StrVal>UnitStat_MaxCounterAttack</StrVal>
            <Value>1</Value>
            <Provides>+1 Counterattack per round</Provides>
        </GameModifier>
        <GameModifier>
            <ModType>Unit</ModType>
            <Attribute>AdjustUnitStat</Attribute>
            <StrVal>UnitStat_Splashdamage</StrVal>
            <Value>0.25</Value>
            <Provides>Splash- Does 25% of its attack damage to all surrounding units.</Provides>
        </GameModifier>
    <CustomizationPointCost>1</CustomizationPointCost>
        <IsAvailableForSovereignCustomization>1</IsAvailableForSovereignCustomization>
        <RarityDisplay>Rare</RarityDisplay>
        <HeroOnly>1</HeroOnly>
        <IsAvailableForUnitDesign>0</IsAvailableForUnitDesign>
        <AIData AIPersonality="AI_General">
            <AIPrefType>AIPrefType_CUTTING</AIPrefType>
            <AIPriority>380</AIPriority>
        </AIData>
        <ArtDef>Greatsword_ArtDef</ArtDef>
    </GameItemType>
</GameItemTypes>

 

Virtually identical to the entry for Greatsword, with a couple of teeny tiny adjustments.  And the cost of one point is probably way off considering how strong it is in the eraly game, but it's just an example.  It's not rocket science.  It's you getting to fit your character out with something unique and particular to them.

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May 24, 2013 1:12:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

SPOILER ALERT!!!!

if you mod your starting weapons to be superior than existing starts, then you WILL greatly reduced the difficulty of the game.

Optionally, you -could- add to your backstory that you were thrown out of your former glory, forced to start over from virtually scratch.

or you can set the game on easy and mod starting weapons to the best in the game, you will only be cheating yourself, I do not really care, just thought to throw a competting idea out there as lame as it might be.

Enjoy!

 

 

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May 24, 2013 2:07:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Ha! you guys are a tough crowd. I don't want to change the value of any item. I just want a bigger selection of stuff to pick from (that already exists) in the game. there is no way that if I start with a basic shield it would throw off the challenge of the game. currently there are a bunch or OP'd items to choose from. Eerog's Token necklace (sorry for the spelling) is one of the best items in the game and I can pick that one up but I have to hope and prey that I can find a leather helmet in the piles of rubble scattered around the world.

there has to be people out there who understand what I am asking for here.

if the devs wanted everyone to start equally then there would be no equipment at all- we would all start naked. and with nothing at all - no spells - no abilities and have to randomly find everything. this would also be a cool mod for you modders.

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May 24, 2013 2:08:29 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

research leatherworking and buy a leather helmet

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May 24, 2013 2:11:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I would love to settle my game arguments in multiplayer!

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May 24, 2013 2:16:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting lpisko,
there has to be people out there who understand what I am asking for here.

Well, to be fair, you did use the example of the crappy bow.  So if your idea is that there should be more options for crappy equipment, suggesting that you should be able to get a better bow or a full set of armor to start is going to confuse people.

The idea that there should be more options for equipment at the start has some merit, playing dressup isn't fun if you can only wear a couple things.  However, I think the point most people here are making is that once you've started the game, loot drops and research will quickly make your starting gear obsolete.

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May 24, 2013 2:17:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Two dragonfly bracers walk into a bar...

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May 24, 2013 2:22:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sythion,
Two dragonfly bracers walk into a bar...

Or 47 pairs of unequipped leather bracers walk into an AI bar... ahh, memories!

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May 24, 2013 4:03:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I guess I just want more options of everything at the start, after you play a lot this lot of items becomes stale quickly and i think all of us can agree that the start of this game is by far the best part of it. i have been waiting since this games original release for more items to be added to this and after almost 3 years i felt i needed to voice an opinion about it.

i used the example of the crappy bow because i cant fathom a bow sovereign starting with a crude shortbow  with -8 initiative. there are 3 types of staffs available for mages but not a normal bow for an archer, just the worst bow in the game. then its very hard to find a good bow, it should be more balanced.

if someone used all of their creation points on equipment they would also suffer with no spells or no other bonuses and this will add greatly to the differentiation of play style. i think ive exhausted my creative thought on this topic - hopefully Kael can give me some love!

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May 25, 2013 2:14:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I definitely agree with the basic idea of the OP -- more choice of weapons and/or armour is a 'would be nice' for creating a custom Sov.  Keeping in mind that the dev would have to ensure the point costs of the items would need to be balanced against the Sov traits.

 

Sure, everything drops soon enough, but starting with a full set of leather can possibly ensure that your starting army lives a little longer to get those items, for example.  Plus it means 1 point less spent on the 'good' choices - traits that last a lot longer.

 

So it's an idea that has merit, and doesn't hurt anyone.  Saying that you can just mod the game is actually being disengenuous to the OP.  I can mod the game to give me the Spell of Mastery tech as well, but that does nothing for actually playing the game properly.

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May 25, 2013 5:20:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting SBFMadDjinn,
starting with a full set of leather can possibly ensure that your starting army lives a little longer to get those items

The Gauntlets of Grazna are effectively two-thirds of a suit of leather armor for 1 point.

Quoting AlLanMandragoran,
Or 47 pairs of unequipped leather bracers walk into an AI bar... ahh, memories!

I thought it had been greaves ... though why exactly the Queen of New Pariden had 47 pairs of leather pants and not the rest of the wardrobe I could not say ...

I will agree that it would be nice if there were more options for starter equipment, but most of that stuff gets tossed rapidly anyways, and with the defense value they chose for leather armor it's not like there's a lot of room for low-end armor that's good enough to cost a point but isn't going to completely outclass early troop equipment, and if they made it free then there would be no reason to ever be without armor on your sovereign.

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May 25, 2013 10:16:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 I agree - I think the starting sov should be more buff.   So I cheat.   I jack up the difficulty but give my sov some starting equipment.  I go through core armor, weapons and mounts and make some available.   The founder of my empire isn't going into battle with a rusty shortsword.

Takes about 10 minutes - just save a vanilla copy of the file somewhere.  Scroll through the xml file in notepad.   Change "AvailableforSovereigncustomization" from a 0 to a 1 on various items.

I then double the customization points and CTRL-N till I get a good spot.  Whee.

 

I then tried to level the playing field and made all custom sovs to parallel the default ones - but buffed- but without any pre-made units they just didn't work out (I'm assuming that's the reason).

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May 25, 2013 11:36:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting jutetrea,
but without any pre-made units they just didn't work out

 

Create custom units for your custom AI factions the easy way, though a Workshop tool would be nice too.

Create your custom AI faction and Sov. Start up a new game with them. Use the Complete Research cheat, then create and save your designed troops. Exit your game, and your custom AI faction now has units designed to fit their strengths, or weaknesses. You'll have to play around a bit with the designs and the Sovereign traits to get the right mix, but it's worth the time, imo.

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May 26, 2013 2:37:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think there should be some more custom equipment that is full game long equipment. Nothing seems even in the same league as Procipenee's crown and the Staff of Souls. I think the ice/fire staffs they added to the mix for a point should be suped up versions, to be like a low-level no mana spell without an init penalty. I can understand why there isn't any super weapons or armor, but maybe some unique charms and more accessories would be interesting.  

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May 26, 2013 3:23:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ereog's Token is great against Wildland Bosses that melee.  Try this combo - strong enough Sov to take one hit from Wildland boss, Beastlord, a few Bears or Cave Bears, plus a decently powered Slow spell (although this last one might not be totally necessary) - dead boss.

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May 26, 2013 6:10:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Burress,

I think there should be some more custom equipment that is full game long equipment. Nothing seems even in the same league as Procipenee's crown and the Staff of Souls. I think the ice/fire staffs they added to the mix for a point should be suped up versions, to be like a low-level no mana spell without an init penalty. I can understand why there isn't any super weapons or armor, but maybe some unique charms and more accessories would be interesting.  

 

Ereog's token is the single best item for a defender champ. there's no reason to ever stop using it. 

likewise, i don't think there are any other bracers with an init boost, so the dragonfly bracers are useful for the whole game, too. The gauntlets may be replaced with some high end plate vambraces, but you can still pass the gauntlets to a hero who doesn't have chain/plate proficiency.

 

 

 

 

 

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May 27, 2013 1:29:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Making leather armour or something like that available for sov customisation can be done, but since it already exists in CoreArmor.xml, every time you start the game the modded armour would be overriden, meaning it would be not available.  That's why I suggested copying an existing item and giving it a new internal name - so that it is a new item which can't be overriden by the core game data.

You can alter CoreArmour.xml directly but then it will get overwritten in a future update so you'll have to change it again.  Too much hassle.

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