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bortlings
Join Date 02/2006
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[bug 0.95][Critical on Skeletons w/ Graveseal?]

May 21, 2013 11:45:16 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Skeletons are supposed to be immune to criticals but I recall that I cast Graveseal on Skeletons and when I attacked with ranged units, I scored critical hits.

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davrovana
Join Date 05/2009
+61
Reply #1 May 21, 2013 12:39:43 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Graveseal overrides immunity. Great spell.

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bortlings
bortlings
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 May 21, 2013 12:44:43 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Is it intended to work that way though? It's a great spell, but perhaps it crosses over into nerf territory.

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parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
+206
Reply #3 May 21, 2013 3:23:53 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I don't think it needs a nerf. 40 mana to force something to suffer critical hits, not a cheap spell in the first place.

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bortlings
bortlings
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 May 21, 2013 4:40:06 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Most magic-centric factions though will make a bee-line for Mantle of Oceans -40% mana cost along with Mage specialty and equipment reductions -- makes for easy spamming at a low Low LOW cost. 

I think Roslyn has points in Water magic so it's a given the faction that has the spell will get Mantle of Oceans relatively soon. 

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parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
+206
Reply #5 May 21, 2013 4:54:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

What you are proposing is that Mantle of Oceans is too powerful and should be nerfed

The reduction to the mana costs are a combo effect and so your suggesting that the combo is too overpowered. This would imply that the spell combinations need to be more closely examined, as well as equipment reductions. I don't quite see how stopping this spell graveseal from causing critical hits to immune to criticals is game breaking.

What would you propose as a nerf to the Graveseal spell? I for one don't know of a good change to it, and leaving it the way it is seems to be as good as any.

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bortlings
bortlings
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #6 May 21, 2013 5:14:47 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think the simple solution is to make creatures that were designed to be immune to something should always be immune even if magic comes into play.

I'm a skeleton! I'm undead! You can't critical me, hello, I'm UNDEAD.

*graveseal*

Awww, crap, I'm less undead now and vulnerable to crotch shots again with graveseal!

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davrovana
Join Date 05/2009
+61
Reply #7 May 21, 2013 5:18:26 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Even if graveseal costs 14 mana and could be cast indefinitely, it's only a major advantage against small groups of very strong enemies. Using 14 mana on every dinky monster will quickly get prohibitively expensive. 

Not to mention, it can be resisted. In many cases, there are better spells/actions to use with that caster's turn.

Graveseal is awesome, but it only affects 1 target at a time, and can be resisted. And high defense, high HP enemies can still take many critical hits before dying.

It's Graveseal AND Curse that is deadly...incredible combo, but not game breaking. Still only kills one at a time. 

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parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
+206
Reply #8 May 21, 2013 5:33:08 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting bortlings,
reply 6

I think the simple solution is to make creatures that were designed to be immune to something should always be immune even if magic comes into play.

I'm a skeleton! I'm undead! You can't critical me, hello, I'm UNDEAD.

*graveseal*

Awww, crap, I'm less undead now and vulnerable to crotch shots again with graveseal!

Or maybe graveseal is a weakening the bond between the animated feature of the dead and makes the bones more brittle and weakens the spirit bond of the person. Who knows exactly how the magic affects the individual to which it is casted. We also do not know exactly the reasoning behind the immunity of critical hits. It could be they have no squishy parts, or it could be that they are magically enhanced spiritual bonds prevent the weakspots from being exploited.

One could mod in the nerf into the game currently. It would take some time, as there are a few ways to do it.

One could force the immune to crit to automatically cast a spell at the beginning of combat, to which graveseal cannot stack with (not sure if that would work, but it is worth a try)

Determine the creature type and force the spell to last the duration of 1 if the creature is a skeleton -1 otherwise.

Or the simplest nerf of all make the spell last 3 turns.

 

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Anelyn
Join Date 04/2013
+2
Reply #9 May 21, 2013 9:18:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Well graveseal can be spread with infection Then again that's part of design for dark / empire players, they get debuffs. Life / kingdom players get buffs.

So maybe empire players can kill skeletons faster, but life players will mitigate more damage and heal it up without worries, so different playstyles

Not all casters have water magic (nor get lucky to get a hero with the specialization). While it is nice, you don't live on magic every single combat. You use it in important fights tactical or strategical. Even if the spell costs are low, when you have several fights a turn it adds up fast, and your mana generation is limited not infinite (a way smaller number than what you spend in a single fight).

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bortlings
bortlings
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #10 May 21, 2013 9:36:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It just seems inconsistent with the theme of the game. It's kinda like if a spell existed that made Delin the Pyre of Man vulnerable to fire.

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