Any way to rid myself of Mercenary camps?

By on April 11, 2013 11:10:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

flagyl

Join Date 06/2008
+22

My city expanded to include a mercenary camp resource within it's borders; now, every few seasons I am now receiving an alert that I have a new mercenary unit available. I don't want or need them and I do not seem to be able to raze or otherwise disable the camp's production of mercs.

 

Is there anything that can be done to stop the camp from producing the mercs? Thanks in advance.

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April 11, 2013 11:34:17 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I believe you can click on it and Raze it, just as you can Ogre lairs and several other types of "wild" resources.

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April 11, 2013 11:37:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Eventually they stop producing units, so you can just disband them as they pop for now. Not sure if you can raze the camps once they are already built. I'm pretty sure you can do so beforehand.

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April 11, 2013 11:42:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You must have built a Camp on the resource.  They are limited cap units... the mercenary camp should produce 2 units of mercenaries and 2 units of hunters and then it should stop producing any more (unless those get killed... in which case it produces more).  

 

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April 11, 2013 12:34:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks everyone.

 

Yes, I believe I mistakenly built the camp after I took over the territory. Schatten-I THINK once you utilize the resource, you cannot raze it (at least I don't have an option to).

 

To my way of thinking, they are too expensive and too under-powered to be of any use.

 

I'll keep track of how many units are produced abob101.

 

Thanks again everyone for taking the time.

 

PS-Leo...I spent a year in Milwaukee...VERY cold place .

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April 11, 2013 12:41:20 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting flagyl,
Schatten-I THINK once you utilize the resource, you cannot raze it (at least I don't have an option to).

That... appears to be correct (just went and looked a Horses resource, which I know can be razed). Curious...

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April 11, 2013 12:45:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Right, they cannot be razed after improvement. The only way to remove them is to enable cheats and then delete it.

 

Quite annoying.

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April 11, 2013 12:52:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting flagyl,
Thanks again everyone for taking the time.



PS-Leo...I spent a year in Milwaukee...VERY cold place .

LOL, definitely not everyone's cup of tea! And it gets much colder and snowier as you go north and west from there.

 

Glad you got your camp problem figured out.

 

 

 

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April 11, 2013 2:35:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Huh.  I hadn't realized that ... umm, guys, can we get a way to raze or delete improvements?  For those of us poor challenged people who don't have a clue how to do modding, or whatever it is called?

 

 

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April 11, 2013 2:57:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I just disband any mercenaries and the Knights of Ashok that I don't want because they cost too much.  It is a useful source of extra population when I want my cities (usually a fortress) to grow fatser, just move the unit to the nearest city that needs more pop and disband.

 

JJ

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April 11, 2013 3:09:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

To enable cheats in your game, right click on LH in your Steam library, select properties, then under the General tab, click Set Launch Options. Type in "-cheat", minus the quotation marks, and you're good to go. I believe the delete button will remove the offending improvement, a quick search will find various other cheats which may prove useful for testing.

 

I use ctrl-U quite a bit to monitor the AI, and the research cheat is very useful for customising factions without having to play through an entire game.

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April 11, 2013 3:13:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Did they ever fix the cost on these units?  

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April 11, 2013 3:33:51 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
Did they ever fix the cost on these units?  

As of .75, they are back to 4.5 gildar.

 

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April 11, 2013 3:40:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,


Quoting Lord Xia, reply 11Did they ever fix the cost on these units?  


As of .75, they are back to 4.5 gildar.

 

 

Arrgggg!!!!   

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April 12, 2013 7:15:54 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I hate these camps, I always seem to get them somehow, I think it happens when I take a bot's city and my new borders expand over the camp.

From then on I have to disband mercenaries every few turns. They cost like 4 gold per season and can't be upgraded or grouped into something useful, so they're basically just an annoyance. They probably stunt the growth of any bot that builds a merc camp too.

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April 12, 2013 8:00:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abob101,

You must have built a Camp on the resource.  They are limited cap units... the mercenary camp should produce 2 units of mercenaries and 2 units of hunters and then it should stop producing any more (unless those get killed... in which case it produces more).  

 

 

As of 0.75 (the version I was playing when I asked the question), they can produce more than two units of any type; I had to disband then every few turns; I did this for 15+ turns. I do not know if this has been addressed in 0.80 yet, but I am guessing it hasn't.

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April 12, 2013 8:16:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

When people say there's a cap towards how many are produced, it means there's a cap to how many are active at a given time. So if you keep deleting them, you'll never reach the cap.

The workaround for the uselessness of these camps is to let the mercenaries/trolls/ogres idle on the camp in 'Guard' state.

On that note, ownership of one of these camps should permit the design (weapons, armor, equipment, traits ect.) and subsequent production of these type of units, that would make them considerably more worthwhile and actually make them a consideration for production over regular troops.

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April 12, 2013 8:42:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Aexrael,

When people say there's a cap towards how many are produced, it means there's a cap to how many are active at a given time. So if you keep deleting them, you'll never reach the cap.

 

I see. Thank you for the clarification. That is a lot of money (four gildar a turn per unit) to stop the unwanted units. I feel like I'm being shaken down by Tony Soprano .

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April 13, 2013 11:39:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If it is too much of an annoyance you can always raze the city or putpost they are connected to.

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April 13, 2013 12:12:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Wow. So much disdain for Merc camps. Why hasn't SD noticed this underappriciation for this currently developed mechanic?

Imo, having a mercenary camp of any kind should be OPTIONAL as to whether you want to have a troop produced.

  • To build a unit, there should be a button on the camp that does so. There should NOT be auto-building of units....EVER.
  • The stats and upkeep of the unit should be properly displayed BEFORE a build occurs so that the player can make an informed decision as to whether or not he wants the unit. The upkeep should vary, depending on strength of the unit and type of unit....yes, magical units like dragons SHOULD have mana as part of their upkeep.
  • There should be a build TIME associated with building a unit. Selecting a unit for build should open up a mini-queue that clearly shows the time in turns it will take to produce the unit. Different units SHOULD take differnet amounts of time to complete.
  • The question as to whether or not these camps should have a capacity limitation is still open to debate. In theory, a natural upkeep softcap should keep the player from going overboard on these mercenary units, but at the same time in having the upkeep too high, you drive the player away from wanting to hire these merc troops altogether. Not sure where this one should go. I would however open up the idea that there should be a GLOBAL cap placed on these camps. Each camp can manage 3 units that get added to the total. EXAMPE: if you had a dragon roost and a orge den and a mite camp, you would have a total of 9 mercenary units able to be fielded. Yes, that means that you can have 9 DRAGONS if you chose and decided that you could afford the upkeep.
  • These camps should be upgradable. PLEASE. Have the upgrades asscociated in requiring the preequisite techs (perhaps Drills and War Colleges). They would upgrade similar to shards. The units SHOULD be competitve with the upgrade. Already....who REALLY gets mites?
  • Additionally, there should be MORE variety of camps. I would LOVE a Griffin Roost (Griffins fly) or a Unicorn Grove (Unicorns Teleport). I would be thrilled with a Demon Portal or a Chaos Crevace (Hell Hounds). I dare say, mercenary armies should become a POSSIBLE viable strategy in the game as to how a player may wish to defend his boarders!!!
  • As a final point, I would be quite satisfied if a limitation were placed on camps such that you require a 2-tile buffer around and cities cannot envelop camps as a result.

Thoughs? Comments?

Summoning should be another avenue of strategy in which to build your army with. This area needs alot of work too....but that's another topic that's been talked about in other threads.

 

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April 13, 2013 8:17:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

They simply need to fix the cost of these units, they are ridiculously overpriced and they drain an economy very quickly.  Also, some are not of great use.

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April 13, 2013 11:42:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GFireflyE,


Wow. So much disdain for Merc camps. Why hasn't SD noticed this underappriciation for this currently developed mechanic?

Imo, having a mercenary camp of any kind should be OPTIONAL as to whether you want to have a troop produced.


To build a unit, there should be a button on the camp that does so. There should NOT be auto-building of units....EVER.
The stats and upkeep of the unit should be properly displayed BEFORE a build occurs so that the player can make an informed decision as to whether or not he wants the unit. The upkeep should vary, depending on strength of the unit and type of unit....yes, magical units like dragons SHOULD have mana as part of their upkeep.
There should be a build TIME associated with building a unit. Selecting a unit for build should open up a mini-queue that clearly shows the time in turns it will take to produce the unit. Different units SHOULD take differnet amounts of time to complete.
The question as to whether or not these camps should have a capacity limitation is still open to debate. In theory, a natural upkeep softcap should keep the player from going overboard on these mercenary units, but at the same time in having the upkeep too high, you drive the player away from wanting to hire these merc troops altogether. Not sure where this one should go. I would however open up the idea that there should be a GLOBAL cap placed on these camps. Each camp can manage 3 units that get added to the total. EXAMPE: if you had a dragon roost and a orge den and a mite camp, you would have a total of 9 mercenary units able to be fielded. Yes, that means that you can have 9 DRAGONS if you chose and decided that you could afford the upkeep.
These camps should be upgradable. PLEASE. Have the upgrades asscociated in requiring the preequisite techs (perhaps Drills and War Colleges). They would upgrade similar to shards. The units SHOULD be competitve with the upgrade. Already....who REALLY gets mites?
Additionally, there should be MORE variety of camps. I would LOVE a Griffin Roost (Griffins fly) or a Unicorn Grove (Unicorns Teleport). I would be thrilled with a Demon Portal or a Chaos Crevace (Hell Hounds). I dare say, mercenary armies should become a POSSIBLE viable strategy in the game as to how a player may wish to defend his boarders!!!
As a final point, I would be quite satisfied if a limitation were placed on camps such that you require a 2-tile buffer around and cities cannot envelop camps as a result.

Thoughs? Comments?

Summoning should be another avenue of strategy in which to build your army with. This area needs alot of work too....but that's another topic that's been talked about in other threads.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel on every end. We need to know the upkeep costs, control building the units.

 

I prefer having the units unlocked in Unit Design.

 

This means I will have "Build-A-Dragon Workshop", and it will be FUN and EXPENSIVE. What else will I do with all my late game money? I will be able to make Butcherman, Elementals, Mercenaries, Knights of Aosk equipped how I want them. Because these are UNITS and not Henchmen, there is no need to give them level up perks.

 

I would have the Resource (Dragon, Knight of Aosk) added. It would give 3 copies of the resource. When you build a Unit that consumes that resource, you lose it until the unit is Disbanned or Killed. You could implement a Civ Trick that if you "lack" a resource required for units, the unit has -50% Defense.

 

* The purpose is I can make my Dragon serve as a Fell Dragon Mount, Or as a Fell Dragon Unit. Either way, buying the "item" Fell Dragon Mount from the Shop or building the Unit would remove a copy of the resource and add to the Limited Unit Cap.

 

* Make it so that the item "locks" from the shop when Limited Unit Cap is reached.

 

Limited Unit Cap works great if you don't want a limited resource, just have the Improved Resource give LimitedUnitCap and add the unit to your queue.

Is this moddable as is? If so, consider me working on it over the next few weeks.

 

If not, I would want it moddable, so that I could make my Draconic Henchmen of Draconia, led by Zaraloth the Dragonlord.

 

Regarding design philosophy: Early game, and mid-game is where rules matter the most. End game is where rules have less meaning (unless they restrict you from something) and technicalities (functions) are more important. So let the insane big boy 4x things happen.

 

For that matter, edit that Master Quest boss to rid his stupid dragon's weakness to ice, give it more defense, and dodge then give it 2 actions per turn instead of one. Then you will have one serious bad boy at the end to justify his defeat ending the game. He should be hard.

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