Stardock gives the finger to FE players

By on April 8, 2013 10:01:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

enoeraew37

Join Date 11/2005
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Exactly how does Stardock explain not replying to FE customers for a MONTH regarding updates and the like for FE? Cause I cant see it any other way as a deliberate cold shoulder. Getting off the endless beta train at FE? No more support for you!

Given that the internet is in everyone pocket via smartphone, there is absolutely no excuse for lack of communication. Not to mention you apparently have no problem interacting with the LH people in a timely way. And yes, I bought your product and thus I'm entitled to have it work to spec. Chancing the patching numerology to a 1 doesnt make the game done, especially when you are suddenly releasing 100 new fixes, learned from FE, into the newest money sink.

 

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BernieTime
April 23, 2013 1:34:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

He may have phrased it badly but he isn't wrong. A number of people, myself included, have posted asking what the future is for FE now that LH is on it's way and not had much of a reply until now, and, lets face it, 1.4 is hardly a massive patch and we have no info at all as to what 1.5 is likely to include but I'm betting it's not much other than the odd bug fix.

It's up to Stardock where they put the effort, and, if I'd bought WOM and got both LE and FH for free I'd be feeling fairly warm and glowy towards them, but I purchased FE at full price and now feel like a bit of a second class citizen being asked to pay $20 for what is effectively a large patch that others are getting for free.

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April 23, 2013 3:21:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think it's quite the over reaction. SD will get to 1.4 in due time. They currently have the huge undertaking of a May 22 release date that they wish to maintain, and thus dedicate all their resources towards.

Once that is done and LH has settled down, I most certainly think that SD will be taking all the effort directed towards LH and transfering as much as they can back to FE in the finalizing of 1.4.

Likewise, I believe 1.5 update will all in line with the final update for LH, ensuring that as much as possible is backported to FE to maximize the gaming experiance of SD's customer base.

Now that said, 'my view' of what entails a proper patch and 'Brad's view' of what entails a proper patch can very well be quite different, despite the intension being the same. In the end, it's his game. No one 'had' to buy FE before 1.5 was released. That was a choice you made. Live with it.

 

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April 24, 2013 4:43:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"Live with it"

What does that even mean? Of course I'm "living with it"- it's not as if the fact that I'm not getting LH for free is making me lean towards suicide.

What you really mean is 'Don't complain', to which I say "Live with it" (or rather, don't complain about me complaining). Just because I bought something voluntarily, that doesn't mean I don't have the right to express a negative opinion about it if I want. I don't expect voicing that negative opinion to get me anything or believe I am entitled to a constant stream of updates, but I do think there is no harm in Stardock being aware that some of their customers are less than happy.

I do hope you are right about features being back-ported to FE from LH, but I'm fairly sure they would have said something about it if that were the case, if only to stop threads like this one popping up.

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April 24, 2013 4:14:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Complaints and criticisms are fine. Where I think the OP lost the plot was turning it into some kind of victimization/abandonment scenario where Stardock employees were deliberately snubbing him.

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April 24, 2013 4:19:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Phaedyme,

Complaints and criticisms are fine. Where I think the OP lost the plot was turning it into some kind of victimization/abandonment scenario where Stardock employees were deliberately snubbing him.

Well, to be honest Frogboy abandoned and snubbed him but I think understandably so...

Quoting Frogboy,


Quoting enoeraew37, reply 41
gah I need a shower from all the leg humping. So the fanbio spin is Stardock just didnt answer for a month because of -me-? Because I have no manners? I dont know why they went quiet but it had nothing to do with me. I'm not that important. Other people were asking too. They got ignored to but dont have the social heuvos to be public about it. I certainly hope they didnt leave their customers flapping in the wind just to spite one critic.

You need to go away now.

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April 24, 2013 7:44:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Woffle99,

He may have phrased it badly but he isn't wrong. A number of people, myself included, have posted asking what the future is for FE now that LH is on it's way and not had much of a reply until now, and, lets face it, 1.4 is hardly a massive patch and we have no info at all as to what 1.5 is likely to include but I'm betting it's not much other than the odd bug fix.

It's up to Stardock where they put the effort, and, if I'd bought WOM and got both LE and FH for free I'd be feeling fairly warm and glowy towards them, but I purchased FE at full price and now feel like a bit of a second class citizen being asked to pay $20 for what is effectively a large patch that others are getting for free.

Do people realize that they buy games, not subscriptions? Buying a game doesn't entitle one to some endless supply of free updates. The last update was like in February or March.  It's nice that they are continuing to release updates to the game but our purchase of the game doesn't entitle us to them.

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April 25, 2013 12:51:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting phazonfreak,


Well, to be honest Frogboy abandoned and snubbed him but I think understandably so...

To be fair, that happened because of the complaints about victimization and abandonment.

 

Xan,

I think it is reasonable to expect support for games, and expect announced patches to be released. It's not undeserved entitlement to want updates and fixes for games one has paid for. The notion that purchasing a product doesn't entitle one to customer service is actually utterly bizarre to me. However, I do not think this means that customers are entitled to be abusive jerks toward anyone.

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April 25, 2013 3:48:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Xan,


Quoting Woffle99, reply 51
He may have phrased it badly but he isn't wrong. A number of people, myself included, have posted asking what the future is for FE now that LH is on it's way and not had much of a reply until now, and, lets face it, 1.4 is hardly a massive patch and we have no info at all as to what 1.5 is likely to include but I'm betting it's not much other than the odd bug fix.

It's up to Stardock where they put the effort, and, if I'd bought WOM and got both LE and FH for free I'd be feeling fairly warm and glowy towards them, but I purchased FE at full price and now feel like a bit of a second class citizen being asked to pay $20 for what is effectively a large patch that others are getting for free.

Do people realize that they buy games, not subscriptions? Buying a game doesn't entitle one to some endless supply of free updates. The last update was like in February or March.  It's nice that they are continuing to release updates to the game but our purchase of the game doesn't entitle us to them.

I totally agree (see my second post in the thread), my point here is that some people are getting the update for free and some aren't.

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April 26, 2013 10:42:20 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting BernieTime,

Kids nowadays.  I'd like to transport you back to the mid 90's when patches and updates only happened once or twice if you were lucky if at all.  Those updates may have been Months to years after the project.

Unimpressed with the rant of self entitlement

 

 

I would like to transport you back to the early to mid 90's.  You didn't have day one patches because games were tested and released when they were ready not when the publishers wanted them out.  Games didn't ship bug free but they didn't ship in the broken state a large majority of games of today do.   I can tell you I am unimpressed with your attitude and dismissal of a person disappointment at a lack of support for a game he purchased. 

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April 26, 2013 11:20:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Anyone who complains about lack of communication and/or support from Stardock is delusional. Sitting at your computer desk playing video games and reading forums does not entitle you to a perfect world.

 

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April 26, 2013 11:29:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting mentalinstra,

Anyone who complains about lack of communication and/or support from Stardock is delusional. Sitting at your computer desk playing video games and reading forums does not entitle you to a perfect world.
 

This

I also find it hard to believe people are still whining in this thread.

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April 26, 2013 11:39:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NiknudStunod,

I would like to transport you back to the early to mid 90's.  You didn't have day one patches because games were tested and released when they were ready not when the publishers wanted them out.  Games didn't ship bug free but they didn't ship in the broken state a large majority of games of today do.   I can tell you I am unimpressed with your attitude and dismissal of a person disappointment at a lack of support for a game he purchased. 

Nostalgia:  Noun.  The most powerful force in the universe.  Able to bend reality from what it was to what the believer wishes it was.  

Quoting BernieTime,

I also find it hard to believe people are still whining in this thread.

I agree. 

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April 27, 2013 3:06:33 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kantok,

Quoting NiknudStunod, reply 59
I would like to transport you back to the early to mid 90's.  You didn't have day one patches because games were tested and released when they were ready not when the publishers wanted them out.  Games didn't ship bug free but they didn't ship in the broken state a large majority of games of today do.   I can tell you I am unimpressed with your attitude and dismissal of a person disappointment at a lack of support for a game he purchased. 

Nostalgia:  Noun.  The most powerful force in the universe.  Able to bend reality from what it was to what the believer wishes it was.  

Quoting BernieTime, reply 61
I also find it hard to believe people are still whining in this thread.

I agree. 

 

There is no Nostalgia in my statement.  Yes there were bugs but nothing like todays releases.  You would think that with time we would be progressing but if anything we have regressed back to the time of Atari when people put crap on a cartridge and called it a game.  Now I think people are over reacting over a lack of patches as well but that doesn't give me, you, or anyone the right to call them whiners.  These forums are not just for fan boys.  They are also for people trying to relate there frustration to the devs.  If you don't have something to add to there discussion then find something else to do besides trolling them.

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April 27, 2013 6:25:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NiknudStunod,

I would like to transport you back to the early to mid 90's.  You didn't have day one patches because games were tested and released when they were ready not when the publishers wanted them out.  Games didn't ship bug free but they didn't ship in the broken state a large majority of games of today do.   I can tell you I am unimpressed with your attitude and dismissal of a person disappointment at a lack of support for a game he purchased. 

This is both nostalgia and an exaggeration of the modern state of affairs. Do games ship broken? Definitely. Do a majority? Not even close. Did games in the 90s always ship in a playable state? No. Also, some games received multiple patches over time even then. Getting the patch was slightly more challenging as you typically had to look them up yourself, rather than have them automatically downloaded by a client.

This doesn't mean I don't agree with your essential point: People should be able to criticize and complain when they're not satisfied. Doing so is not an automatic "overdeveloped sense of entitlement." I just don't think it's necessary to paint the 90s as a sepia-tinged gaming wonderland in order to make that point.

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April 27, 2013 11:25:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NiknudStunod,



I would like to transport you back to the early to mid 90's.  You didn't have day one patches because games were tested and released when they were ready not when the publishers wanted them out.  Games didn't ship bug free but they didn't ship in the broken state a large majority of games of today do.   I can tell you I am unimpressed with your attitude and dismissal of a person disappointment at a lack of support for a game he purchased. 

LOL. Were you alive for those days?

In those days games were just as buggy but you just lived with them or waited for someone to upload a home made patch onto a BBS and hope that it supported Zmodem.

Master of Magic was released completely broken. You had to download fixes from the Microprose BBS.

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April 27, 2013 11:31:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Phaedyme,


I think it is reasonable to expect support for games, and expect announced patches to be released. It's not undeserved entitlement to want updates and fixes for games one has paid for. The notion that purchasing a product doesn't entitle one to customer service is actually utterly bizarre to me. However, I do not think this means that customers are entitled to be abusive jerks toward anyone.

That's a strawman argument. No one is saying games shoudln't be supported. 

Players aren't owed anything beyond their original purchase. That is a fact.  It is good business to make customers happy and release updates to please players. But making a post accusing Stardock of giving customers the middle finger because they haven't released an update to FE in over a month is sickening gamer entitlement. This is especially true when everyone knows why, they're working on Legendary Heroes right now. It's not as if FE is a defective product that needs fixes. The updates Stardock provides are a courtesy for its customers with the next one already announced.

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April 27, 2013 12:53:15 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

To comment on this myself ... as what I consider to be a casual gamer now.  I am 36 and have a full time job and family.  I found FE on steam during a pre-order, and thought it looked interesting.  So I read up on the game and found that they had released a previous version years ago called Elemental.  I found it for cheap on Amazon ($5 but I should have read how bugged and flawed it was).  I attempted to play it, and enjoyed the concept of it when it wouldn't crash on me so much.  I shelved it in anticipation of the new one, chalked it up as a $5 loss.  FE finally releases with some improvements, some features omitted, but to my surprise MANY of the same bugs as I saw in Elemental.  This led me to believe they used the same source code for most of FE, but just changed the graphics and other areas of the game.  Very rarely have I been able to get through a whole map of FE without some sort of bug.  Mainly because I am a casual player, I save my game and come back to it sometimes days later, and as I quickly found out there were many bugs with saving the game and the loading from a save (instant building finishes by AI, etc).  This then led me to shelve the game until the bugs were worked out. Several times I would read about huge bug fixes, and I would give it a go again, only to find more and more bugs, and yet still many bugs from the first Elemental game coming back after being patched.

Then one day I see Legendary Heroes on steam for $40, and wonder what the heck is this.  When I look at the screenshots and read the description I see it looks like many of the bugs, issues, and problems are highly addressed in this version ... but then after looking, it seems like its a new game and separate from FE, meaning I would have to drop the additional $40 to get it, instead of like a $10 expansion cost because I own FE.  I had to contain myself from pitching my wireless keyboard down the hall in anger.  At this point I felt like I had paid to be a beta tester for FE so they could release the better game of LH after we've all reported bugs and suggestions for improvement.

This is just my view as a casual player who just wanted to spend hard earned cash to get some enjoyment in my limited free time.  Because of this I doubt I will ever invest in a Stardock game again, even if it wins awards and praises because I would not want to risk feeling this way again.  Thanks for reading.

 

Edit: After researching I do see they are offering LH for 50% for FE owners, but that still is not enough for me to want to spend anymore money.

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April 27, 2013 3:42:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Mmrnmhrm,


Quoting Phaedyme, reply 57

I think it is reasonable to expect support for games, and expect announced patches to be released. It's not undeserved entitlement to want updates and fixes for games one has paid for. The notion that purchasing a product doesn't entitle one to customer service is actually utterly bizarre to me. However, I do not think this means that customers are entitled to be abusive jerks toward anyone.

That's a strawman argument. No one is saying games shoudln't be supported. 

Players aren't owed anything beyond their original purchase. That is a fact.  It is good business to make customers happy and release updates to please players. But making a post accusing Stardock of giving customers the middle finger because they haven't released an update to FE in over a month is sickening gamer entitlement. This is especially true when everyone knows why, they're working on Legendary Heroes right now. It's not as if FE is a defective product that needs fixes. The updates Stardock provides are a courtesy for its customers with the next one already announced.

I didn't say that anyone said that games shouldn't be supported. I said that expecting games to be supported is not undeserved entitlement. It seems to me that I am not the one using straw men here.

I also said that the OP was out of line several times. His asking for an update on an announced patch is not "sickening gamer entitlement", however. It's the way he played the victim, insulted Stardock employees, and insulted other posters on this thread that was out of line.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that continued support and updates are simply a "courtesy" to customers. I think it's good PR, and I think customers have every right to expect continued support and updates for games. Companies that do not provide them may find that customers may not return for later offerings. I think that describing an expectation for support as "sickening gamer entitlement" Is repeating the OP's mistake in the opposite direction - and thus no better by any measure.

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April 27, 2013 4:09:12 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Mmrnmhrm,

Quoting Phaedyme, reply 57

I think it is reasonable to expect support for games, and expect announced patches to be released. It's not undeserved entitlement to want updates and fixes for games one has paid for. The notion that purchasing a product doesn't entitle one to customer service is actually utterly bizarre to me. However, I do not think this means that customers are entitled to be abusive jerks toward anyone.

That's a strawman argument. No one is saying games shoudln't be supported. 

Players aren't owed anything beyond their original purchase. That is a fact.  It is good business to make customers happy and release updates to please players. But making a post accusing Stardock of giving customers the middle finger because they haven't released an update to FE in over a month is sickening gamer entitlement. This is especially true when everyone knows why, they're working on Legendary Heroes right now. It's not as if FE is a defective product that needs fixes. The updates Stardock provides are a courtesy for its customers with the next one already announced.

 

 

Updates are not a courtesy they are a necessity.  If companies did not patch games beyond release they wouldn't be making games very long.  I still have memory leak problems with FE which causes the game to crash.  Its the only game I crash to desktop after playing for maybe a hour or two.  So your view of a non-defective product may not be the same as someone else.  You need to take off those rose tinted glasses.

 

As for games of the 90's yes I agree games shipped bugged and broken but not in the state we see today.  At least you could play MoM on release.  I think it was 2 months after release where I could get past the starting screen on sword of the stars 2.  Who knows when you will be able to actually build a functioning city in the new sim city or if there is ever gonna be a ai in aliens colonial marines. 

 

 

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April 27, 2013 4:28:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NiknudStunod,

Updates are not a courtesy they are a necessity.  If companies did not patch games beyond release they wouldn't be making games very long.  I still have memory leak problems with FE which causes the game to crash.  Its the only game I crash to desktop after playing for maybe a hour or two.  So your view of a non-defective product may not be the same as someone else.  You need to take off those rose tinted glasses.

 

As for games of the 90's yes I agree games shipped bugged and broken but not in the state we see today.  At least you could play MoM on release.  I think it was 2 months after release where I could get past the starting screen on sword of the stars 2.  Who knows when you will be able to actually build a functioning city in the new sim city or if there is ever gonna be a ai in aliens colonial marines. 

 

 

Talk about strawmen.. 

You can't take one of the buggiest games ever released in any period, SOTS2, and use that to support a wildly general statement about the state of game releases today.  

And using MOM as your "good old days" argument is dumb.  I thought I remembered that it was horribly bug-ridden on release, but to verify I checked it's Wikipedia entry.  

"Early versions of Master of Magic's were riddled with bugs and had a terrible artificial intelligence (AI), frustrating a lot of reviewers with its crashes and ignorant enemies."  

I stand by my statement.  You're argument is nostalgia driven.  The "good old days" were no different than now.  There were wildly varying degrees of stability and bugginess in games released then, as there is now.  Only now you have the option of day 1 patches.  

 

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April 27, 2013 4:44:11 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Guys, I think it's time for this thread to rest. Brad has already addressed the planned upcoming FE updates (last patch was only 60 days ago and the next is on its way), and the thread isn't going anywhere productive since then. FE is still getting updated, so there's no reason to be fighting each other over the subject.

 

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