Let me pick a hero at my own time...

By on April 2, 2013 3:53:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

thadianaphena

Join Date 09/2012
+10

I have become agitated with having the selection "shoved in my face" when I have the fame for a hero.

 

Instead of the current system, I propose that qualities of heroes cost different amounts of Fame. This will let players pick heroes when they want them, and spend an according number of points to adjust the quality of hero available.

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April 2, 2013 4:38:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's kind of funny too how you can tank your economy by doing heavy questing early on and getting loaded with all the champ wages. Nothing you can do to avoid that but steal their souls.

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April 2, 2013 5:29:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would rather have no hero early and pick a hero a little bit later when my faction has had time to develop and I know what I need in a champion.

 

I might need an archer because this game isn't giving me time to get Archery. I might need a mage to satisfy a spell school deficit. Of course, I want to make the choice at my own convenience. This means instead of getting 2-3 early champions I don't want or need, I can wait until the mid-game. I might want to pick 3 "average" champions or 1 "good" champion.

 

I like being given the choice, the offer between 2 champions. I just don't like not having much control over when that choice happens.

 

Likewise, I find it burdensome when in the mid-game I get a weak champion who's only redeemable by being able to die multiple times, thus use as a "feeder" to soften up a stronger enemy before sending in my sovereign. I hate it, I can fully gear up the champ, pop it in the stack and it makes no difference.

 

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April 2, 2013 5:42:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

I have become agitated with having the selection "shoved in my face" when I have the fame for a hero.

 

Instead of the current system, I propose that qualities of heroes cost different amounts of Fame. This will let players pick heroes when they want them, and spend an according number of points to adjust the quality of hero available.

Agreed this would be a much better system.  Let players hire the particular champion that they want, when they want to, picking from a much larger list. 

Forcing us to pick from two random champions is boring and restrictive, hardly deserves the honorific Legendary

At present Fame is often a liability rather than an asset.

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As well as being able to buy the champion you want rather than being forced to pick from a list of two, I would like a much more sophisticated "Fame system" where Fame could be used (spent) to do other strategic things like reduce global unrest as part of the casting cost of a sovereign spell. 

Another good use for fame would be for upgrading champions (not the sovereign) using a spell similar to the Paragon spell that costs the sovereign 5 HP to give a champion an extra level, this spell would instead cost Fame proportional to the level of the champion and maybe mana to upgrade one level.  The spell might be restricted to casting once every 3 turns or similar. 

A Fame system like this would give the feel of managing a very valuable resource rather than being forced to pick a mediocre champion that is nearly useless in the late game since it has all its level picks already spent on things the player doesn't want or need. 

Fame needs to the most important strategic resource that players really value rather than an irrelevance to winning the game as it is unfortunately now.

 

JJ

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April 2, 2013 5:48:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can say that I agree with the points here.

Another idea:

Let us when we hire the Hero decide how to spend his trait points. Meaning he would start at level 1 and automatically we would be going into the level up screen an amount of times equal to his level he would have. This allows for more customization and specifically for what WE want at the time we get him or her into our army.

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April 2, 2013 6:33:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have to agree.  I really don't like the new hero system in LH.  I preferred the old system in FE, or as suggested unlock them but recruit them at your leisure.

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April 2, 2013 7:46:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What if turning away both champion choices gave you a boost to fame? As in, you veto the current choices and thus accelerate the arrival of the next set of more powerful choices. 

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April 2, 2013 7:56:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great idea thadianaphena! 

I agree that it's better to buy heroes with fame when you are ready rather than being forced to accept them. However I disagree with having more than two options. Despite I agree that too much random is unfun, LH has very few randomness, and we don't need even less randomness.

Also very good ideas about using fame for other things. Perhaps there could be some benefits that can be bought with fame, and each benefit you buy increases the price of the remaining benefits. Big benefits would have minimum fame price to avoid them being bought too early.

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April 2, 2013 7:58:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

+1

Have a list of aviable heroes for different fame cost that evolve with time (they could leave to another empire etc...). Have a spell that randomise the list or bring a new hero. The total number of aviable hero could depend of some building (like adventurer's guild).

Wait wait... Damn it's already exist in Endless Space

 

What i hate the most it's often i get 2-3 heroes when I still got difficulties to fill my sov army and make in leveling. So what the point to get more heroes if I can't build them armies or stack them with my soc because of xp loose? And they are weaker than a 3 guys unit (even a defender in full leather + shield at the beginning will be one shoot if I put him in my sov army, so I must left him behind and let him suck my xp. Not really productive).

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April 2, 2013 8:08:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,
Instead of the current system, I propose that qualities of heroes cost different amounts of Fame. This will let players pick heroes when they want them, and spend an according number of points to adjust the quality of hero available.

There could be "shop" where you can buy a random selection of champions, magical items and xp books with fame.

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April 2, 2013 8:14:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like that you have to choose right then and there. It forces you to act, and creates an important choice in the early game. It can even direct the choices you make for mid and late game, in terms of expansion, research, and resources. Thematically, the fact that they just appear fits with the wandering nature of heroes in Elemental; they are choosing to come to you.

I have never gotten more heroes than I could handle financially. Between early gildar generating buildings and taxes, I have no idea how you would even get into a situation like that.

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April 2, 2013 8:16:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wizard1200,


quoting postInstead of the current system, I propose that qualities of heroes cost different amounts of Fame. This will let players pick heroes when they want them, and spend an according number of points to adjust the quality of hero available.

There could be "shop" where you can buy a random selection of champions, magical items and xp books with fame.

I like this idea

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April 2, 2013 8:17:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I really like this idea.  I'm definitely not in love with the current Champion system ... although I do like it more than in FE.

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April 2, 2013 8:33:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

it shoud be something like shop, with champions available at cost of fame, without any pressure, player shoud be allowed to purchase hero when he want and only hero he want.

 

or just accumulate fame for more powerfull heroes. 

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April 2, 2013 9:15:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like the new system in LH

The real issue is how terrible 90% of champions  are and how slow they level.

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April 2, 2013 9:20:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would have to suggest that we not use fame as a resource. I cannot spend fame and get less fame. It sounds as if people want to do anti-propoganda to themselves. To satisfy some needs, maybe there should be a third option of not choosing a hero, the ability to decline both of the heroes.

Shopping for heroes seems rather gamey to me.

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April 2, 2013 9:38:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I completely agree with Parrottmath. Also, I think the randomization adds variation to the game.

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April 2, 2013 9:43:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You can spend fame and get less fame if you train henchmen.

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April 2, 2013 9:50:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

how about a spell "bureaucratification" that removes the original class of the hero and assigns them a boring desk job? (commander with admin/merchant/lore traits) you can never have too many governors - especially if the have merchant and earn you money.

on a more serious note: i like the current system - but it would be helpful if we could decide whether the new hero spawns next to the sov or gets teleported to the capital. sometimes it's pretty inconvenient having them spawn in the middle of nowhwere next to the sov who (once again) forgot to bring a spare mount for the new champ.

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April 2, 2013 10:15:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting parrottmath,

I would have to suggest that we not use fame as a resource. I cannot spend fame and get less fame. It sounds as if people want to do anti-propoganda to themselves. To satisfy some needs, maybe there should be a third option of not choosing a hero, the ability to decline both of the heroes.

Shopping for heroes seems rather gamey to me.

I also think that a full shop seems gamey. But a HoMM-like tavern where you can pick one of two available champions is a fair compromise between forcing to get a champion at that very moment and giving too much freedom.

I also agree that it seems weird to "lose" fame. That could be solved in a similar way to what airlines do with their frequent flyier programs. In those programs you have "expendable" points you can buy rewards with and "star" points that cannot be consumed and are used to define your status level. Both are earned at the same time but one can be used and the other not. Similarly it could be a "Fame" statistic that can't be used and "Popularity" that could be used to buy champions and other perks.

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April 2, 2013 10:45:43 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I like new system Having more heroes to choose would help a lot although. And more balance as late heroes are quite useless.

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April 2, 2013 10:50:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Being able to choose their level-up traits would make them useful though.

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April 2, 2013 11:00:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree that there are too many heroes force fed to players. The experience system dictates only one hero per stack, and early game it is all I can muster to fill out one army stack (led by the sovereign). Meanwhile there are 3 or 4 useless heroes costing money and gaining no xp.

I'd much rather choose a higher level champion at a time when the kingdom can support a second army.

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April 2, 2013 11:15:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I like the current system as well, the aforementioned forced choice, the theme of heroes approaching you based on fame.  I do think that could be balances, in particular, slowed.  They come a little too fast.  Either reduce the accumulated fame, or raise the benchmark point where they offer themselves.

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April 2, 2013 11:29:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

With the new system of obtaining heroes, I say we drop both their wages and the exp split.  Those things were there to keep us from running an all champion army, but that is not a factor any more.

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April 2, 2013 11:31:57 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

It's also getting more than a little annoying that the champion list doesn't seem to be particularly randomized. It feels like I could play several games in a row, and, as long as I could stack fame levels so everyone gets champs in the same order, the options would be exactly the same each time, assuming the choices were also the same each time.

On a different note, in my current game I got a 400 fame champ at level 1. My average champ level at the time was around 8. What the hell use is a level 1 champ (aside from not having all his traits pre-picked for me?) at turn 300-something?!

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