Suggestion = Monsters no longer raze cities, just reduce population

By on March 29, 2013 8:43:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

dday235

Join Date 06/2010
+3

It's incredibly annoying when roaming monsters destroy your cities, which you've spent lots of time on. It just seems so cheap and random, sometimes you get these massive monster stacks that randomly move onto your city and then all your work goes down the drain + you can't even found another city on that tile anymore. It's massively frustrating.

Why don't monster attacks just reduce the population of the city? It would be much more fun that way (IMO). I hate it when there are a few Strong/Deadly stacks of monsters in my territory early/mid game, and there's no way for me to take them. It pretty much forces me to go Beastlord to save the frustration, as only then can I build up Strong/Deadly armies early game (if I'm lucky with the beast spawns).

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March 29, 2013 8:53:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If it is at all possible, an alternative is that you lose all progress to current production and the city goes under a repair cycle for 5 turns (per level) (that is not contributing anything to the empire except unrest). During that time frame you may choose to raze the city or try to fix it up again.

The common argument is that you should defend you cities better by training troops and stationing them in the town / fort you have, but at times I find that difficult to do.

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March 29, 2013 8:59:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is definitely a good idea.  Monsters destroying an entire city is just stupid and makes the game way less enjoyable.  The stacks are often way too powerful and impossible to defend against til late game and most games it happens to me at some point even if i dont build my cities over a monster camp  Damage population, damage production, destroy random improvements, increase unrest for x turns but dont  destroy the whole city.

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March 29, 2013 9:03:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My best suggestion for this is that the monsters take the town and live in it until you can send a hero to free it open again through a quest / tatical battle and reverting the control to you. But that never got any thumbs up or down from the devs... they hid their true feelings about that system.

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March 29, 2013 11:35:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great Idea I support it.


Monsters should damage cities and improvements but not destroy cities.  Perhaps they can destroy improvements.

 

Only other players should be able to Raze cities

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March 30, 2013 12:16:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Bears wipe out entire cities all the time.

...

Oh wait, no they don't. They eat some garbage then get chased out by a few people banging on frying pans and yelling loudly.

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March 30, 2013 2:59:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What's extremely frustrating to me about monsters razing cities is that they still destroy the fertility of the city site, many months after the pre-release FE patch that supposedly removed this behavior. It is one of the most infuriating mechanics in the game. I stopped playing FE for months after a wandering abomination mowed through my armies and razed my capital city, and I've been extremely disappointed to see that nothing his changed.

I mean, as ridiculous as it is to have a city razed by wolves or bears, there are scarier things out there that can crush you even if you're fully prepared. Even without turning the world difficulty up, sometimes there's literally nothing you can do to save a city. A city can be attacked by freak creatures that are more powerful than your entire kingdom/empire put together. You can see some mega beast coming, but even stationing all your best troops in the city only gets them all killed.

I like that creatures powerful enough to wipe out a whole kingdom exist, and I don't mind if some dragon or elemental lord or titanic named creature that probably crawled out of a unique location actually razes the town after conquering it. I mean, unlike a cave bear or whatever, I can actually believe that this dragon turned an entire city into a ruin. What I do not like that they somehow destroy the land itself, making a rebuilding process impossible, even after you slay the monster or watch them move on.

Maybe if it did something interesting with the land, like turn it into a haunted ruin, or a huge lair for the creature, I wouldn't mind so much. But having the land reduced to unusable featureless flatland just feels broken and bad.

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March 30, 2013 4:22:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Totally signed!

 

It happens far too often, that I just have to end a good running game, because of a too powerfull monsterarmy is razing one city after another...

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March 30, 2013 7:41:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The idea of monsters not always razing cities is a very good one! My proposal regarding this subject is the following:

Monsters reduce city population by a number directly proportional to their power (wether if the ratio is 1:1, 1:2, or something else would be decided through play testing). If the new population is 0, the city is razed. If the new population is above 0, the city survives but there is temporal unrest representing citizens afraid of monsters not being able to fully concentrate on what they do (the text in the unrest pop up would say something like "we are afraid of monsters!") and this unrest is slowly reduced over time as citizens recover their confidence. 

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March 30, 2013 7:41:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Could we keep it for creatures like dragons?

 

It's annoying as hell yes, but I have never had more fun then when hunting down the bastard that burned down 2 city's, 7 army's (I was angry) and caused the whole world to declare war on me.

 

Claiming it's nest was amazing....I named all of his enslaved children very nasty names, and used them to conquer the world as payment for the war that started.

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March 30, 2013 7:43:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have a different suggestion.

 

Have the monsters "wipe" all the buildings in town. Leave the city itself alone.

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March 30, 2013 8:05:02 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Sanati,
Bears wipe out entire cities all the time.

...

Oh wait, no they don't. They eat some garbage then get chased out by a few people banging on frying pans and yelling loudly.

These aren't your common black bear in these FANTASY games. So, anything is possible in the fantasy world that's why they call it fantasy. If you don't defend your cities you don't deserve to keep them. Plus, the reason many whine about it is because it makes it much harder to RUSH out and CITY SPAM which is what they are wanting to do in the first place. lol If you lose a huge city build to animals/monsters you have no one to blame but your own stategic stupidity.

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March 30, 2013 8:59:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

At the very least the founding square should be able to be built on again, ie. not be salted as what happens currently.

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March 30, 2013 9:11:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It would also be cool to see the ruins of burnt city's, leaving a kind of mark on the land of the wars that have taken place.

 

That begs the question, why can't we immediately raze the city's we conquer?

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March 30, 2013 9:19:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

We can.  There is no 5 turn limit any more.  Though you may have to see "More Options" to see the "Raze" function.

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March 30, 2013 9:20:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

*Facepalm.....I am still on FE.....sorry.

 

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March 30, 2013 10:12:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting willie sanderson,

These aren't your common black bear in these FANTASY games. So, anything is possible in the fantasy world that's why they call it fantasy. If you don't defend your cities you don't deserve to keep them. Plus, the reason many whine about it is because it makes it much harder to RUSH out and CITY SPAM which is what they are wanting to do in the first place. lol If you lose a huge city build to animals/monsters you have no one to blame but your own stategic stupidity.

Three random guys with clubs (starter militia) can kill a bear cub or wolf in this game easy. If your city gets attacked by say an ogre army and the militia defends and mostly dies (but holds them back), then the bear cub comes along and sees an undefended city, suddenly the population of 500 people can't pick up sticks or rocks and chase out said bear cub? That bear cub is then powerful enough to destroy every single building in a level 5 city and desecrate the land it was built on in a single season? No amount of "hur, dur, FANTASY" makes that OK. It's not about making the game easier, it's just something absurd.

Gameplay wise I don't even care. I would just reload, autosave is set to every turn. I haven't lost a city in LH yet though.

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March 30, 2013 10:23:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't mind Dragons razing cities instantly (with their breath they could burn down the wood structures pretty quickly).  But any other units should take time to raze a city, or turn it into a lair for the interim.

Regardless, a city being destroyed should never salt the starting square, except perhaps if you raze it yourself.

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March 30, 2013 10:26:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

They should reduce population and destroy some random buildings... and that's it, not raze the city.

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March 30, 2013 10:34:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sanati,
That bear cub is then powerful enough to destroy every single building in a level 5 city and desecrate the land it was built on in a single season? No amount of "hur, dur, FANTASY" makes that OK. It's not about making the game easier, it's just something absurd.

The level 5 city militia should be able to kill a bear cub. There is a bug currently that the city doesn't regenerate it's militia after each battle (like they should). But for the realism of a fantansy, it's all about the smell... the bear ate aspargus as it's main dietary staple. No one would want to live in the that perfectly pristine city after that bear smell.

I would like to see implemeneted at best see a timed quest for people to retake the city. Basically every 2 turns lose a building in the city. When the city center is all that is left, leave a ruin of the city itself, but still leave the quest. Ideally, one should have a city quest be with the creature type that took the city, but I'd be fine even if it were a bunch of undead that you have to kill or other demons. Quest difficutly equates to level of city. This would not make the game easier, but more interesting. Say a level 5 city encounter is a dark wizard with some skeletons.

After completing the quest, it should refertilize the land where the quest was located, to something that would be settleable. Say a 3 mat 2 grain with essence dependant on proximity of shards and crags and stuff.

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March 30, 2013 10:37:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

+1 to change mechanic.

 

I think the desaster should be different depending of the type of monster & strengh :

 

- beasts and smaller monsters just kill some people and eat some food.

- Bandits & other monsters of same type kill peoples, steal food & money. Stronger version can destroy some buildings. Could lead to a quest : Bandits taking hostages/slaves that you could rescue.

- Stronger monsters do the same but with more damages EDIT: they could capture the city, damaging/killing people each turn, the player need to recapture it.

- Dragons & others nasty monsters can destroy a whole city > Create a set of lairs/quest to complete for free the land and be able to build a new city here.

 

When a city get looted, the empire get an unrest malus for x turns.

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March 30, 2013 12:40:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Now I can't take out of my hed the picture of a Slag godzilling through my towns.

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March 30, 2013 12:53:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sanati,



Quoting willie sanderson,
reply 11
These aren't your common black bear in these FANTASY games. So, anything is possible in the fantasy world that's why they call it fantasy. If you don't defend your cities you don't deserve to keep them. Plus, the reason many whine about it is because it makes it much harder to RUSH out and CITY SPAM which is what they are wanting to do in the first place. lol If you lose a huge city build to animals/monsters you have no one to blame but your own stategic stupidity.


Three random guys with clubs (starter militia) can kill a bear cub or wolf in this game easy. If your city gets attacked by say an ogre army and the militia defends and mostly dies (but holds them back), then the bear cub comes along and sees an undefended city, suddenly the population of 500 people can't pick up sticks or rocks and chase out said bear cub? That bear cub is then powerful enough to destroy every single building in a level 5 city and desecrate the land it was built on in a single season? No amount of "hur, dur, FANTASY" makes that OK. It's not about making the game easier, it's just something absurd.

Gameplay wise I don't even care. I would just reload, autosave is set to every turn. I haven't lost a city in LH yet though.

AHhh I see so you CHEAT the rules and mechanics of the game.....thanks for letting us know that you're a CHEATER and not to be trusted.

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March 30, 2013 12:57:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Intelligent monsters should raze cities.Dumb animal monsters should just kill pop.

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March 30, 2013 1:17:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Because changing a slider in the options menu is totally cheating. In a non-competitive single-player 4x. The SC2 ladder forums are that way. ->

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March 30, 2013 1:40:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting willie sanderson,

AHhh I see so you CHEAT the rules and mechanics of the game.....thanks for letting us know that you're a CHEATER and not to be trusted.

Er, autosave is cheating? Excuse me?

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