Do champions steal EXP in Legendary Heroes but not Henchmen?

By on March 29, 2013 2:50:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

dday235

Join Date 06/2010
+3

 

Just wondering as I haven't tested this yet. Do Champions still steal EXP but not henchmen? What made Henchmen a bit OP in the vanilla game is the fact they didn't seem to steal EXP like champions, but were similar in strength (outside of spell divirsity of course). Having many champions in your army kind of sucked due to the loss of EXP, took me ages to level up my Sovereign if I had a few champions with him as opposed to other units or henchmen.

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March 29, 2013 3:17:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes.

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March 29, 2013 3:40:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FYI the exp formula is explained in this thread.

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March 29, 2013 5:43:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think this formula should be revisited. It takes way too long to level your heroes and access the goodies at the end of the new skill trees (which I love by the way). And yes, I do like to keep my champions together for the most part because with the way the economy is balanced it just costs way too much to field and army of units per champion. Alternatively the skill trees could also be shortened, do we really need for example five levels of lethal strike?

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March 29, 2013 5:59:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

They said champion xp splitting has been removed, I have no idea if this is true or not. My champions do seem to be leveling very slowly.

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March 29, 2013 6:05:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No, they changed it back.  Champion XP splitting still exists.

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March 29, 2013 6:16:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Well that kind of sucks, it means having champions in your army isn't really desirable until maybe late game IF you've leveled them up. Early and mid game they steal too much xp considering how weak they are at that point.

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March 29, 2013 6:47:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting dday235,
No, they changed it back. Champion XP splitting still exists.

Oh

Well then......

 

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March 29, 2013 6:49:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Was there a bug with the reply system?  I'm the one who said that.

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March 29, 2013 6:55:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So, the point is here that people feel there needs to be XP splitting, but it is too much at the moment. I think increasing xp for all monsters would be too much and so there must be a middle ground for everyone. What mathematical formula would you propose for the XP splitting to occur. Since dividing equally is too much.

Here is a convoluted formula to use instead. The actual values converges that no matter the number of heros you will always get at least half of the XP.

(2^(NUMBER OF HEROES - 1) + 1) / 2^(NUMBER OF HEROES). For XP.

This would equate to the following chart...

1 hero    = full            XP
2 heroes = 3 / 4         XP
3 heroes = 5 / 8         XP
4 heroes = 9 / 16       XP
5 heroes = 17 / 32     XP
6 heroes = 33 / 64     XP
7 heroes = 65 / 128   XP
8 heroes = 129 / 256 XP
9 heroes = 267 / 512 XP

In practice, one really only needs the XP to be calulated to 4 heroes, and after 4 heroes divide the XP in half, and leave it at that.

But if you want it to have a slower progression, consider instead of a linear growth inverted, and more of a logarithmic inverted approach.

1 / (LN(NUMBER OF HEROES)+1).

This will give a result where a full set of 9 heroes would not get less than 3/10 of the XP. The chart for this will give roughly the same XP for 2 or 3 hero stack, same xp for a 4, 5, 6 hero stack and basically the same xp for a 7, 8, 9 hero stack.

But you are still harshly punished for having 2 or more heroes as the first jump is roughly 3 / 5 XP, and moves down from there to slightly less than 1 / 2 XP.

I think I convoluted these calculation enough for the moment.

 

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March 29, 2013 9:41:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think it would be nice if they classed each type of hero into caster/fighter/leader with mages being casters rogues and warriors being fighters and defenders and commanders being leaders then allowing you to have one of each type in a stack without xp penalty but applying full penalty to all heroes if you have more than one of any type.

That should alleviate the problem with stacking multiple army buffing heroes resulting in silly stats while still letting you run around with several heroes in a stack.

 

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March 30, 2013 12:57:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting profane69,

I think it would be nice if they classed each type of hero into caster/fighter/leader with mages being casters rogues and warriors being fighters and defenders and commanders being leaders then allowing you to have one of each type in a stack without xp penalty but applying full penalty to all heroes if you have more than one of any type.

That should alleviate the problem with stacking multiple army buffing heroes resulting in silly stats while still letting you run around with several heroes in a stack.

 

I like this idea a lot.

Another simpler suggestion would be to start the xp splitting at 3+ heroes, giving no penalty to a party of 2 heroes, which feels balanced to me.

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September 1, 2013 1:01:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Is there a way to tell if a unit is a champion or a henchman?   I've never used a henchmen but I've recruited guys from quests and wondered if any of them were henchmen or they all were champions

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September 1, 2013 1:52:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If the people you recruit are from a quest, then they are champions and not henchmen. (Unless you are using my female henchman mod, then you can get a quest to recruit a henchman)

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September 1, 2013 2:02:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Is there an indication on the traits screen or somewhere that dude is a henchman/woman?

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September 1, 2013 2:08:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


 No... only by the traits that person may have... for example if they have life adept, earth adept and such. Or if they have the ability bard or cook. But beyond that there is no other indication.

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September 1, 2013 10:28:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Actually, the only difference between champions and henchmen is that Henchmen have <DividesBattleExp>0</DividesBattleExp> and are trained units unlike Champions.  However, it is possible to create Champions that have the same no divide capability.  Basically, all units are similar, champions have <IsChampion>1</IsChampion> and <IsNPC>1</IsNPC>, Henchmen have those tags too but are trained, and some custom champions have the no divide capability.  No champions or henchmen ever have the <IsSovereign>1</IsSovereign> tag, or they would show up as Sovereign choices.

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September 2, 2013 12:08:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If you are going through the code, then you also have <UnitModelType>HenchmanMale</UnitModelType> This is the tag that allows them to use specific abilities and items designated for HenchmanMale

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September 2, 2013 2:46:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

perhaps someone should make a mod to make quest joinable npcs into henchmen rather than xp splitting champions

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September 2, 2013 5:21:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

why?

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September 2, 2013 5:31:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What are the names of the all the Quest heroes?  There is Mausolos and Huhrus in base LH, and Alexandros in the Quest Pack, are there any others?

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September 2, 2013 7:17:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have implemented a mod which includes everything in the I Need To Move mod, plus makes all Quest Champions, except Ascian and Quest Pack Alexandros, not divide experience when they are in the army with a hero that does divide experience.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/447537

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September 4, 2013 8:18:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've read both threads but still would like some clarifications. (I've just started playing FE-LH and find it very interesting and enjoyable.) Please correct me where I'm wrong and have a look at my questions.

Xp from quests are the same independently if you bring one hero or many. This means that 2 heroes on a 10 xp-quest would earn them 10 Xp each (totalling 20 Xp).

Xp from monster-fights are reduced if you bring more heroes. But is the Xp-total reduced, or is it just split between heroes? Say a monsterfight gives 8 Xp, then a single hero-army would give the hero 8 Xp. But if I bring 2 heroes, would they split 8 Xp equally, 4 Xp each? Or is the total 8 Xp reduced before splitting, so that each hero would get less, like 3 Xp each?

 

 

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September 4, 2013 2:12:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Or you could download this mod, which has a new Faction Trait "Secret Societies." This trait allows any faction to train a special kind of henchmen unit. 

I hear it's even balanced by high cost so as not to be over-powered!

http://forums.elementalgame.com/447732/page/1/

The trait also gives (at the education tech) spellbooks that make leveling up vanilla champions easier, and adds a new building that adds xp per season and can stack with adventurer's guild.

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September 4, 2013 6:07:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Thanks for the link. Sorry if my question is unclear and therefore unanswered, I will try to rewrite it.

 

Suppose 2 heroes kills a monster worth 8 Xp. How much xp will they get:

a) 8 xp each (totalling 16 xp)?

b ) each gets a reduced share of the total, like 7 xp each (total 14 xp for the fight)?

c) they split the xp equally, giving 4 xp each. (total 8 xp)?

d) they split a reduced total, giving something like 3 xp? (total 6 xp)?

 

I know the tactical advantage of splitting heroes (=faster exploration or doing things at two fronts) but I'd like to understand the XP-system for splitting heroes into different combat groups.

 

(Edited spelling)

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September 4, 2013 7:49:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's C (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

I've battled something with two heroes noted I gained experience X.   When I reloaded and took out the guy with only one of the heroes he got double the XP.

 

I *believe* troops (meh) get full XP.   So Champion X and Sovereign Y get 4 xp each and Axemaster and Archer would get 8 xp each from your example.

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