No reason to have multiple armies

By on March 29, 2013 1:34:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Raptarius

Join Date 03/2013
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It seems to me after playing quite a few maps that levelling up mutlitple heroes/champions is counter-productive and having just 1 uber army that farms all the monsters is a much stronger strategy. Not only is splitting the champions difficult due to needing 2 strong armies (more upkeep costs and time costs for producing units), but it means you'll be much weaker in the long run due to being at a much lower level.

I think you should be able to let your sovereign have the option of training other champions when in a city to give some xp per turn (I know there is a building that does similar but it's very inefficient and luck based). Or perhaps even have any champion/sovereign get this ability under the Commander class (make it a bit stronger than it is now).

Alternatively allow champions to gain xp for managing cities, they could give certain boosts depending on the class. It gets to a point where you have 4/5 champions sitting around in cities doing absolutely nothing (they could explore, but you might as well send a scout to do that).

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March 29, 2013 2:01:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ben_sphynx,

There an amount of xp determined by the monster strength and your party strength - call it x.

If you have no heroes, each unit gets x/2, and henchmen get x each.

If you have one hero, that hero gets x, henchmen get x each, and non hero units get x/2

If you have more than one hero, the heroes and henchmen get x/(number of heroes), and non hero units get x/((number of heroes))

 

They have changed how the first stage is calculated, as compared to fallen enchantress, so that beating monsters stronger than your group does not provide as much of a bonus as before.

 

Basically in LH a single army is utterly counterproductive and its much more effective using multiple armies with 1 hero with each.  In FE single army was the way to go though.

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March 29, 2013 11:13:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting profane69,


Quoting ben_sphynx, reply 2
There an amount of xp determined by the monster strength and your party strength - call it x.

If you have no heroes, each unit gets x/2, and henchmen get x each.

If you have one hero, that hero gets x, henchmen get x each, and non hero units get x/2

If you have more than one hero, the heroes and henchmen get x/(number of heroes), and non hero units get x/((number of heroes))

 

They have changed how the first stage is calculated, as compared to fallen enchantress, so that beating monsters stronger than your group does not provide as much of a bonus as before.

 

Basically in LH a single army is utterly counterproductive and its much more effective using multiple armies with 1 hero with each.  In FE single army was the way to go though.

 

If I'm trying to level heroes, I don't see how this hurts. I still get the same amount of total "hero XP" I would otherwise, it's just split across more heroes. I can also take on stronger monsters than I would normally be able to, netting me even more XP! It looks like based on this formula, having more heroes hurts your other units, but not the heroes themselves. If I send multiple heroes in one army, I'm not netting less total XP (split between them) than if I sent just one of them at the monster, right?

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March 29, 2013 11:24:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

By your thoughts you are quite right that you will get (on average) the same xp per hero. Not really an advantage to either method, in fact, splitting the stack has the advantage of upgrading your lower units quicker (non-hero units) and having a larger amount of lower units at a higher experience level. But the real advantage of keeping one stack is the quests.

The XP granted by quests is not split per hero, all hero's get the same amount of XP granted by the quest. So your strategy of keeping one UBER stack is the right way to go there. In fact, whenever a quest happens I group my heroes together to take full advantage of the level-up.

If you have a suggestion on how to prevent or encourage using multiple stacks please give an indication of how.

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March 29, 2013 11:51:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You really need multiple armies capable of handling any threat in this game. Eventually you are going to be at war on multiple fronts, with armies coming at you from multiple directions and monsters wandering in from "friendly" territory. In FE you could have your super stack with 10 move run around wiping out all the enemies on one front in a single turn then teleport to the other side of your territory to do the same, but now with combat zeroing movement you can only reliably take out one enemy per turn per army. When you have 8 armies coming at you on one side and 4 armies coming at you on the other side, you're going to be screwed if you only have one army of your own no matter how strong it is.

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March 30, 2013 12:04:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

In terms of leveling up non-hero units, isn't it best to have 2 heroes per army? That way the amount of xp given to your units is not reduced.

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March 30, 2013 7:45:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I disagree. I normally have 2 armies, which feature exactly 1 hero, and 3-5 other troops depending on equipment, needs and other things.

 

I can't be bothered to have 2 heroes in an army together unless one has Trainer.

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March 30, 2013 7:56:26 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

In a MULTIPLAYER world leveling up 1 hero/sov would be the way to go obviously for those min/maxer types who just must have the strongest best army on the map. BUT, in a solo single player game against an AI? lol Not EVEN close to necessary. Playing the PVE game is about the ADVENTURE, the EXPLORATION the MINOR WARS. THere's no need to MIN/MAX in the PVE solo single player game. I don't do it and it makes the game(s) a lot more fun and challenging. Some players need to step OUTSIDE the lines sometimes and just PLAY A GAME instead of trying to be Mr. Min/Maxer and OPTIMUS PRIME! lol

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March 30, 2013 7:59:37 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Sanati,
You really need multiple armies capable of handling any threat in this game. Eventually you are going to be at war on multiple fronts, with armies coming at you from multiple directions and monsters wandering in from "friendly" territory. In FE you could have your super stack with 10 move run around wiping out all the enemies on one front in a single turn then teleport to the other side of your territory to do the same, but now with combat zeroing movement you can only reliably take out one enemy per turn per army. When you have 8 armies coming at you on one side and 4 armies coming at you on the other side, you're going to be screwed if you only have one army of your own no matter how strong it is.

This ^ is a very good example of why you need lots of armies now. It's not Kansas anymore and teleporting around the map won't save you anymore I'm happy to see.

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March 30, 2013 10:21:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Build more towns and you can support the armies.  Guild Warehouse will allow you to crank a lot of gildar per turn.

Also, until you get yourself an Alchemy Lab and can cure injuries, you may have to sideline some of your champions for a bit, so make use of those extra champions that have been sitting at the Adventurer's Guild for a while.

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March 30, 2013 10:38:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Of course, with quests that summon a bunch of monsters, your always better prepared than unprepared...

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March 31, 2013 12:26:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


 [/quote]You really need multiple armies capable of handling any threat in this game. Eventually you are going to be at war on multiple fronts, with armies coming at you from multiple directions and monsters wandering in from "friendly" territory. In FE you could have your super stack with 10 move run around wiping out all the enemies on one front in a single turn then teleport to the other side of your territory to do the same, but now with combat zeroing movement you can only reliably take out one enemy per turn per army. When you have 8 armies coming at you on one side and 4 armies coming at you on the other side, you're going to be screwed if you only have one army of your own no matter how strong it is.

Not true...depending on how you build your AVATOR and the key is MANA glut. You don't need citys any more...so you RAZE ALL.  P.S. I play on CHALLENGING level with HUGE maps SOLO , just my AVATOR no army.

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March 31, 2013 1:42:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

MM77, care to elaborate please? I don'T see a reasonable way you would ever be able to cast spells aside from the +2 per season you will get which averages to about 1600 Mana in 800 turns for the whole game. Are you just getting Beastmaster Warrior/Assassin traits and hope for the beast?

You will never be able to outlast an opposing enemay which is building cities and troops too.

Please, I dare you, post a complete Gameplay video with you not building ANY cities at all on a Huge Map and Challenging level and winning in the end.

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March 31, 2013 7:35:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting N1ghthavvk,

MM77, care to elaborate please? I don'T see a reasonable way you would ever be able to cast spells aside from the +2 per season you will get which averages to about 1600 Mana in 800 turns for the whole game. Are you just getting Beastmaster Warrior/Assassin traits and hope for the beast?

You will never be able to outlast an opposing enemay which is building cities and troops too.

Please, I dare you, post a complete Gameplay video with you not building ANY cities at all on a Huge Map and Challenging level and winning in the end.

I can get 300 mana in 1 turn with NO cheats or mods and only need 1 city. the DEVELOPERS and some players know how. and I'm not going to say how in the forum because soon as I do %50 or more peopie will scream NERF!!!!

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March 31, 2013 7:48:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

strange reasoning MM77 on a beta forum. So you found a little trick that give you huge mana and you want keep it secret? Because getting so much mana in one turn isnt OP?

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March 31, 2013 8:03:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


It is not OP if you solo the game as I do. If thay remove the split exp allowing me to team with HERO's I would be more than happy to post how. But untill then it is the only way I can have fun and WIN as the game is now.

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March 31, 2013 8:31:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

300 mana per turn isn't that much even for one city. There's nothing OP about dropping a ton of arcane outposts around a huge dense magic map and feeding all the shard mana to a 6 essence conclave set up for mana production. Or using the magnar Fleshbound Tomb abilities to generate mana (unless he found an exploit there).

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March 31, 2013 8:47:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sanati,

300 mana per turn isn't that much even for one city. There's nothing OP about dropping a ton of arcane outposts around a huge dense magic map and feeding all the shard mana to a 6 essence conclave set up for mana production. Or using the magnar Fleshbound Tomb abilities to generate mana (unless he found an exploit there).

Fine .... now that you post how...as I said you could. How dose this HURT you , if you DON'T uses it and I DO?

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March 31, 2013 11:04:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There's nothing wrong with the strategies I posted. Single city challenges are fun and surprisingly effective with the way resource nodes can all feed into a single mega city.You'll still want or benefit from multiple armies to protect all your outposts though. If you are sacrificing nodes and units for mana, that's the point of those abilities, there's nothing to be "fixed."

If you are talking about an exploit in an ability or something then it hurts the game by not being revealed because other people might try to use the ability legitimately only to get an unexpected result they didn't want. If you want to mod the game to allow your favorite strategy to work more effectively then that doesn't hurt anybody, but if there's a bug it should be reported so it can be fixed for everyone who doesn't want to deal with it. Either way it's not an argument you can use in a discussion about normal gameplay mechanics, IE saying you don't need armies and can solo the game because of an exploit, is not really productive.

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March 31, 2013 11:11:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's just another way to play the game!

 

In retrospect of having multiple army's destroyed by a rampaging dragon, and then having the entire planet declare war on my for my weakness, having only a single stack isn't always an option....unless you are the kraks....then even your militia are bad-asses.

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March 31, 2013 12:12:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 

Quoting Sanati,

There's nothing wrong with the strategies I posted. Single city challenges are fun and surprisingly effective with the way resource nodes can all feed into a single mega city.You'll still want or benefit from multiple armies to protect all your outposts though. If you are sacrificing nodes and units for mana, that's the point of those abilities, there's nothing to be "fixed."

If you are talking about an exploit in an ability or something then it hurts the game by not being revealed because other people might try to use the ability legitimately only to get an unexpected result they didn't want. If you want to mod the game to allow your favorite strategy to work more effectively then that doesn't hurt anybody, but if there's a bug it should be reported so it can be fixed for everyone who doesn't want to deal with it. Either way it's not an argument you can use in a discussion about normal gameplay mechanics, IE saying you don't need armies and can solo the game because of an exploit, is not really productive.

I misunderstood where you were coming from. NO there is no BUG. I just wanted to state that when you said you could no longer use the SINGLE troop approch to win a game was not true. But it is MUCH harder now.

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