[1.02] is the 'monsters salting the land' bug fixed for next patch?

working as intended

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Yep working as intended so IT's NO BUG! sorry

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Not at all convinced it is working as intended.

It used to salt all the earth in an area around the destroyed city, people complained loudly and someone from Stardock replied saying they agreed but there were technical issues with fixing it. The next patch we got what we have now which is better but still not ideal. I think none of the land should be damaged, particularly as the AI quite often just griefs the player by settling right beside dragons and the like, basically deliberately wasting the settle spot (assuming the dragon attacks the AI city, which it virtually always will do if it is my city but only occasionally vs the AI).

Whether Stardock have addressed the technical problems which prevented them fixing it properly the last time I don't know.

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Mistwraithe, how did it change in the most recent patch? The land is still getting salted, no? When did Stardock actually comment on this?

It's good to hear, because I've become convinced that not only is this working as intended (that is to say, retardedly), but that it's so insurmountably hardcoded that Stardock is no longer capable of changing it.

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It has been this way forever, people have complained forever, but it's working as intended. If you really want to resettle that spot, you have to research up the magic tree and use that rejuvenation spell. Learn from it, make some scouts, clear the area, learn to control ZOC, use tremor/freeze. If monsters aren't a threat, it takes away from that part of the game, you're suppose to be struggling to expand, not spam pioneers.

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Quoting immanuel1,

reply 5

Mistwraithe, how did it change in the most recent patch? The land is still getting salted, no? When did Stardock actually comment on this?

It's good to hear, because I've become convinced that not only is this working as intended (that is to say, retardedly), but that it's so insurmountably hardcoded that Stardock is no longer capable of changing it.

I can't remember the details but in the beta's when a city was destroyed all the squares that the city covered (and more, possibly all the ones the influence covered?) were salted and remained unsettleable. Late in the piece (can't remember if it was 1.00 or 1.01) they changed it so only the city location was unsettleable.

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I am on the fence on this, part of it is good part bad, I do agree with the 'it is supposed to be hard to expand' but, the part that has me leaning the other way is preferential treatment. I have yet to see a monster raze an AI city. Mine? LOL the cities must smell like candy. I vote for let the monsters move their maximum movement per turn and make them treat AI & Players alike, then I can live with whatever.

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Hmm... I think I agree that this is a bit silly. In one season, a pack of vvolves can destroy a city and render an area of land the size of a state uninhabitable by making all the soil poisonous to food crops...

I'm sure it's a fixable issue if there is a spell to rejuvenate the land.

I'd maybe make salting effective only on tiles the city actually used, not area of influence, and limit salting to fairly epic monsters like dragons and elementals.

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Insta-Raze:

On the same trend, an AI took over my city and instantly razed it. Why they don't have to wait 5 turns as me? Don't tell me this is a technical issue... And as this is not, if you add the fact that Brad tells us regularly that AI has no cheat code, then I guess this define this instant raze as a BUG, right?

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Hint: there is no permanent salting, those town tiles can be cleared. I guess it will be changed with the new patch, so it does not really matter, but I would like to give a signal that you should look for the way, it exists.

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In 1.01 I found and reported that the tiles that a city had any buildings on remained "city tiles" on the map after the city had been destroyed by a monster

To build on them I had to build and raze an outpost on the tile to return it to normal. The rejuvenation spell, or any terrain spell, did not work as it can not be cast on or effect city tiles.

I have not had a city in 1.02 destroyed a monsters to see if it is still the case in 1.02.

My understanding of what has been said by the developers during the beta is that razed by the players (AI or normal) salts the earth, a monster just meant to destroy the city not the salt it the terrain underneath.

Nakisisa

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Bah, that much about trying to help people to find the solution:)! I would have been put it into spoiler, but no matter now:D!

Yes, it works in v1.02 as well:)!

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Quoting Mistwraithe,

reply 7

Quoting immanuel1, reply 5Mistwraithe, how did it change in the most recent patch? The land is still getting salted, no? When did Stardock actually comment on this?

It's good to hear, because I've become convinced that not only is this working as intended (that is to say, retardedly), but that it's so insurmountably hardcoded that Stardock is no longer capable of changing it.

I can't remember the details but in the beta's when a city was destroyed all the squares that the city covered (and more, possibly all the ones the influence covered?) were salted and remained unsettleable. Late in the piece (can't remember if it was 1.00 or 1.01) they changed it so only the city location was unsettleable.

Monster attacks still cause all tiles that had a building on them, not just the city centre, to be changed to city tiles permanently. Blessing of Restoration spell has no effect

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Quoting sweatyboatman,

reply 1

working as intended

I have read your posts on many forum topics. You are boorish, and speak with authority and knowledge that you do not possess. You are unhelpful to say the least, and your attitude, which is sadly prevalent in too many forums, is one of "I love this game, it works great, nothing is wrong, you're wrong, so shut up. PS I love you Mr Developer"

I'd attempt to argue with you, but as the saying goes "don't argue with stupid people. they'll breing you down to their level and beat you with experience". Not to call you stupid, but you definitely appear to be a fanboy, and occasionally borderline troll, and the same rule applies.

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[Suggestion]

Enter a new script to resettle burned cities. Allow for a random number of the previous building to be recaptured with the resettling, or preferably, add a repair function to the build interface to repair any previously built improvement for perhaps 1/2 production cost.

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Quoting Jozenone,

reply 15

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 1working as intended

I have read your posts on many forum topics. You are boorish, and speak with authority and knowledge that you do not possess. You are unhelpful to say the least, and your attitude, which is sadly prevalent in too many forums, is one of "I love this game, it works great, nothing is wrong, you're wrong, so shut up. PS I love you Mr Developer"

I'd attempt to argue with you, but as the saying goes "don't argue with stupid people. they'll breing you down to their level and beat you with experience". Not to call you stupid, but you definitely appear to be a fanboy, and occasionally borderline troll, and the same rule applies.

Says the guy with zero karma to the guy with 31 karma...

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I don't like the recapture idea. An improvement is more than a building, it's also skilled people vvorking there, people novv dead.

The "repair" idea is pretty good... A razed city vvould basically be building materials in piles, vvaiting to be reassembled. I think the salvaging of materials and equipment and existing buildings and building foundations vvould be vvell represented by the repair idea.

I loaded my last game, vvhere I had a lot of cities razed by monsters, and I can confirm that there are empty tiles classed as "city" vvhere the city formerly stood. I don't have a rejuve spell to see hovv it interacts vvith the city tiles, and no city tiles currently possess resources to try to settle. I've never actually used a rejuve spell... It's so late game, I'm usually conquering my enemies, driving them before me, and reveling in the lamentations of their vvomen, not really concerned vvith settling...

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The problem is not the earth being salted when you raze the city, the problem is some mechanic "salt" the earth whenever you construct a new building, so the developers have to put in a feature to rejuvenate the land again (and obviously didn't bother).

I do agree its bothersome though, have been forever

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Quoting Nibelung44,

reply 10

Insta-Raze:

On the same trend, an AI took over my city and instantly razed it. Why they don't have to wait 5 turns as me? Don't tell me this is a technical issue... And as this is not, if you add the fact that Brad tells us regularly that AI has no cheat code, then I guess this define this instant raze as a BUG, right?

AI insta-razing cities is definitely a bug. It's been well reported, but the devs haven't acknowledged it yet AFAICT. Reading the tea leaves, I don't think we're going to get another patch until 1.1 later this month. Frogboy has said there will be AI fixes in there, so hopefully this will be addressed.

(My three top fixes for the AI are: 5-turn limit for auto-raze, the AI not knowing how to use the shop -- buying dozens of bracers, and the AI not picking meaningful traits -- always Path of the Assassin since it's on top)

Quoting Jozenone,

reply 15

You are boorish, and speak with authority and knowledge that you do not possess. You are unhelpful to say the least, and your attitude, which is sadly prevalent in too many forums, is one of "I love this game, it works great, nothing is wrong, you're wrong, so shut up. PS I love you Mr Developer"

If you think I believe "nothing is wrong" with FE then clearly reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

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Quoting Nakisisa,

reply 12

In 1.01 I found and reported that the tiles that a city had any buildings on remained "city tiles" on the map after the city had been destroyed by a monster

To build on them I had to build and raze an outpost on the tile to return it to normal. The rejuvenation spell, or any terrain spell, did not work as it can not be cast on or effect city tiles.

Nakisisa

Nakisisa, thanks for this explanation - I've always suspected there was some major programming issue at play. The outpost workaround, and the ineffectiveness of the Rejuvenation spell, proves this is stupid bug. God, I hope they figure out how to fix it.

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Borg999

Join Date 02/2006

+59

Salting the earth can be easily countered by using the magical teraforming outpost...

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Quoting Borg999,

reply 22

Salting the earth can be easily countered by using the magical teraforming outpost...

Outposts making land settleable seems like a bug to me. It's intentional, because it's part of the lore. (The channelers spread their influence out and rejuvenate the land.) "Salted" earth isn't the only place where this happens. Randomly around the map there are places where placing an outpost will reveal settleable tiles after several turns. There's no way to tell where they are though and no way to know how long the tiles need to be under your influence to become viable.

I like the idea that razed cities are never settleable again. But I think that monsters and AI both raze cities far too quickly.

1. All cities should have a 5-turn grace period before they can be razed. This should be respected by AI factions and monsters.

2. Razing a city should take time depending on the size of the population and the number of buildings it has. Basically, the population should decrease to zero and the buildings should be destroyed over several turns, perhaps at a rate dependent on the size of the force you have stationed. I think it would be cool if some percentage of the population dispersed to the neighboring cities, giving them a boost to growth, but there's nothing like that in the game currently. (Additionally, you should only be able to manually destroy one building from a city per turn -- so no opening up the City's property window and x-ing all the buildings.)

3. The strategy the AI factions employ to determine whether to raze a captured city is broken. I played a game where two AI factions were at war with each other. The one faction had been wittled down to a single settlement, but I gave them iron and crystal (I was dominating at that point) and they were able to build an army and take back two settlements. Both of which they immediately razed! I would rather that the AI never raze a settlement than that it does it too frequently.

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Yeah, razing seems random at the moment... Should be a tactical decision, like can I defend this place once I leave? Does it have any vvorth (resources)? In my last game against Yithril, he razed the tvvo cities closest to his ovvn, and kept the farthest and most difficult to defend...

I don't think the 5 turn raze-grace is a good idea... VVhen I conquer me a tovvn of heathens, I get to raping and pillaging immediately, before a bigger army shovvs up to kick me out. Five turns in game time is 15 months...

I do like the multi turn razing... I'm kind of thinking 1 game turn per level of the city to raze... That penalizes players for losing the city, but gives players that can get troops there in time a chance to save part of the city. I think there should be a pillage mechanic vvhere you get gold and other resources from razing, depending on the resources connected to the city.

And, again, I'm for resettlement being an option, vvith an economic bonus for all the building materials left around, unless the city vvas razed by epic monsters like dragons, elementals, dark vvizards, demons, etc (Deadly+ monsters that hate humans)... A cave bear isn't going to make the land uninhabitable after it eats everyone.

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Maybe linking the attacking unit strengh with the city population would be the way to deal with the raze feature.

A city being razed could be with 100% unrest, and the population dying in relation with the power of the unit/army. This way, populated cities could stand some turns of razing.

Monsters could be programmed to raze the same way if they want to destroy the city (protecting their lair) or decide in stop razing and just go, if they are not hungr...just an idea

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Army povver is a good modifier to raze speed.

Hovv about...

Base razing time is equal to city level.

VVeak armies raze one level every tvvo seasons.

Medium-Strong armies raze one level/season.

Deadly-Epic armies raze tvvo levels/season.

Minimum of one season required to raze.

And I like the idea of monsters getting full and vvandering off for a nap.

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