The AI settler

By on November 14, 2012 3:50:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

kenn-lu

Join Date 08/2010
+1

Not to put any needless preasure on the Dev team... But would it not be nice if you guys did something about the AI settler issue ?

When i build a settler and create a town, it's consumed into the town. But the AI's settler is not, and they can use it unlimited times apparently.

Please do something about this problem sooner rather than later.

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November 14, 2012 4:04:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've noticed this more than once as well.  I suppose it could be rushing a new one immediately.

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November 14, 2012 4:05:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Holy fuck, that is a big issue, never noticed it before.  The AI does seem to have tons of these, I guess that's easy when they don't get consumed.  Are you 100% sure this is going on?

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November 14, 2012 4:09:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have seen an "army" including the facion leader, 2 normal army units and 1 settler. They built a city and the same "army" continued onward including the settler.

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November 14, 2012 4:16:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kenn-lu,
I have seen an "army" including the facion leader, 2 normal army units and 1 settler. They built a city and the same "army" continued onward including the settler.

Hell of a nice find. Been playing in beta since the beginning and hadn't heard of this before. Wonder if we just weren't paying close enough attention or if this is new?

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November 14, 2012 4:21:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Fascinating ... I never suspected this to be the case

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November 14, 2012 4:24:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well they just founded a new city and what can you do in a city?  Rush units.  Like pioneers.  If I had a pile of gildar and a lot of land to settle, bloody sure I wouldn't wait patiently for sixteen seasons for a new Pioneer unit to be trained.

The population requirements for Pioneer units should increase, basically.

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November 14, 2012 4:29:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

they already had another settler walking towards the spot . If that is the case and they rushed a new settler...I guess they have a VERY high inncome. This was very early in the game too. I wasn't even earning enough to just rush stuff so how can the AI do it. Seems very convinient

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November 14, 2012 4:36:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, but I don't know -- I'm going to trust the OP here because it would explain the HOARDS of settlers camping in a remote region of my little empire last night.

I will say this, it would be nice if the AI would move-on once it gets to a resource and finds it occupied.  Right now they're like my dogs standing looking up at the tree all day waiting for the squirrels to come down.

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November 14, 2012 4:54:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

One thing I hated about War of Magic was the army of settlers, one after the other, after the other..., the never ending settlers.

I'm surprised to see that a settler issue persists with FE.

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November 14, 2012 5:03:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

In WoM the settlers were like zombies, they would attack cities and there would be millions of them.  

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November 14, 2012 5:03:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Also...how could they rush a settler at start if they first have to research technology which allows rushing?

No matter what the player does, they DO have to wait a few dozen turns before they can rush anything...

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November 14, 2012 5:16:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting mttriglav,
Also...how could they rush a settler at start if they first have to research technology which allows rushing?

No matter what the player does, they DO have to wait a few dozen turns before they can rush anything...

Only 10 turns if you cast Inspiration on first city.

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November 14, 2012 5:41:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting mttriglav,
Also...how could they rush a settler at start if they first have to research technology which allows rushing?

No matter what the player does, they DO have to wait a few dozen turns before they can rush anything...

 

You can get the civics tech as a faction bonus for free, though.

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November 14, 2012 5:59:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, but what I'm saying is, that the AI usually doesn't get the Civics or casts Inspiration, yet they can complete stuff incredibly fast in first turns of the game...so, yea...I believe something there is suspicious.

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November 15, 2012 5:30:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


perhaps th edev's could run a few test games where settlements have to wait 2 turns before they can start producing anything. It is possible the immmortal pioneer unit is actually an immediately rushed one. But i believe people have reported this behaviour with outposts as well.

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November 15, 2012 10:32:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


The AIs could be making those units as spies or keeping a lookout for other areas, since they dont take any upkeep and only 1 population to make it as well time too. And of course the AIs couldnt find a suitable place to settle and ended up idled in some places.

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November 15, 2012 5:26:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Which is why when I'm at war with an AI and they send pioneers at me, I kill them the turn that I spot them.  Gilden likes using that strategy so he can figure out where to send his overarmoured minions.

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November 15, 2012 5:48:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting MarvinKosh,
Well they just founded a new city and what can you do in a city? Rush units. Like pioneers. If I had a pile of gildar and a lot of land to settle, bloody sure I wouldn't wait patiently for sixteen seasons for a new Pioneer unit to be trained.

I have seen the AI do this, and I decided that it was rushing new pioneers (I play on ridiculous with AI with more than 100000 Gilden. I never bothered keeping track of how much cash they have left)

I started doing it myself, and it works great.  It's the way I expand whenever I have wealthy.  Build a pioneer, explore, find a spot, settle, and rush a pioneer who keeps exploring.

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November 21, 2012 1:00:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I've reported a similar bug to the OP a ways back.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/435274

It would be interesting to me to know if the cities being founded without the expenditure of a pioneer were at 30 population instead of 3?

With regards to rushing I think it was very improbable in my case (using cheats you could check the saves I posted to see if the faction expended an appropriate amount of gildar but I'm pretty sure that it didn't...).  Turn 30 on beginner, I think at epic pacing.  Given that Magnar recruited a champion I'm not sure where he got the cash from.  Further that pioneer went on to found several cities before it disengaged from the army and got gobbled by a monster.  Maybe there was enough money for one rush but certainly not for another 6-8 turns later, and another after another 6-8 turns.

As far as I can work out the trigger is having a pioneer grouped with other units in an army, although it is possible that one of these units needs to be a champion. 

Frogboy didn't understand the problem.  In another post he claimed to be skeptical since he could not reproduce this.  Maybe he could have loaded the saves.  Should rename him Ostrich. 

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November 21, 2012 1:30:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kenn-lu,
I have seen an "army" including the facion leader, 2 normal army units and 1 settler. They built a city and the same "army" continued onward including the settler.

I remember seeing this brought up before 1.01. Probably was feelotravellers' post. I would agree that it might be that the AI still has access to the sovereign's Settle ability, which gets confused by the settler, and the AI uses the Sov's rather than the Settler, so it gets unlimited uses.
Easy way to test this Dev side would be with some kind of spawn command and pop them straight into the army. Or tell the AI its a good idea to put a settler in an army with a sovereign and make settlers super tanky or another workaround to stop them dying.

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November 21, 2012 2:14:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It may be a little too early to tell, but I modded in some population consumption for building shit, and that has pretty much stemmed the tide.

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November 21, 2012 2:27:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting rlane48,
It may be a little too early to tell, but I modded in some population consumption for building shit, and that has pretty much stemmed the tide.

Build the bodies into the walls! Let no slave go to waste!

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November 22, 2012 5:49:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Just watched the Kraxis do this in a game. It's no wonder the AI manages such stupid expansion rates.

I don't know if building an outpost will actually use up an AI Pioneer, it's worth knowing.

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November 22, 2012 9:16:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I must admit I've had this suspicion before when newly settled AI cities had a settler in them but never investigated enough to work out if it was a bug or just that the AI army came along with two settlers in it.

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November 22, 2012 10:02:05 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

We looked into this. The pioneer is being consumed correctly. Either the AI is rushing or there were multiple pioneers in the stack.

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