Proposed Map Pack

Your thoughts here

By on November 6, 2012 8:53:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

NanakoAC

Join Date 10/2012
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Hi all. I noticed quite a few people agreeing with me in the announcement thread, so i thought it might be worth seperating off into a new discussion.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/436082

Stardock is planning to release a map pack for FE soon, and apparently going to use it as a factor in judging future DLC releases.

 

My opinion, which quite a few others shared, is that a pack of premade maps isn't a very suitable DLC for this kind of game. I have a strong respect for stardock, and a desire to support them, but this kind of DLC wouldn't interest me, and it'd be a shame if lack of interest in this product were taken to mean a lack of interest in FE DLC as a whole.

I feel that one of the main draws of FE is Discovery. Each new game is a new, random world, with new things to find, and see, and do. The randomness is one of the core aspects as, aside from a few broad rules that shape the world, you don't know what to expect. There are a few premade maps already with the game, and i for one have never touched them. Though i'm sure they're beautiful and well designed, a premade experience just doesn't interest me.

Personally i feel that the sort of DLC this game needs, is more pieces to throw into the random generator. New equipment, new quests, new locations, new monsters, new map features, new wildlands, etc. More tools that can be used by the random algorithms to create a wider varietyof worlds, and less repetition. I feel that offers a far better value for developer effort put in, and thus replayability for the end user.

Please do post here your thoughts on the upcoming DLC, and what kinds of (presumably paid) DLC you'd like to see

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November 6, 2012 8:56:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's not a proposed map pack.  It's the first DLC. 

If you don't want more crafted maps, don't get it.

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November 6, 2012 9:03:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Unless we know exactly what is in the DLC it is all speculation. For example, these maps could also include map stamps, which helps with the randomness. It could also include general overall maps that are appropriately balanced for the player, which is what we are assuming is the entire map pack. But it could also include several new tatical maps, which would be a welcome addition.

As to downloadable content I would like to see, there is so much to suggest here that it's hard to say.

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November 6, 2012 9:53:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd love to see stamps. I'd also love to see a Larger map size. I'd probably pay for DLC that included the larger sizes I saw someone mentioning in a Mod thread last week, though ideally with new stamps for more variety. 

 

 

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November 6, 2012 10:03:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If I could get much larger map sizes and new stamps to make my random generator generate cooler random maps I would gladly buy a pack that included maps, but buying just a map pack is a waste of money in a 4x game that already has a pretty powerful generator and very powerful modding tools. 

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November 6, 2012 10:16:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

More mounts for heroes and troops.  

 

Tactical battle maps with city siege enhancements such as destructible walls and arrow towers.  And the trait sapper or destroys fortifications applied to Ogres, trolls, War Slags, Dragons and Earth Elementals.

 

War Slags (see above).  The preferred mounts of Darkling Shamans... 

 

More summons for summoners.

 

More spells.

 

 Waterwalking, flying, swimming units.  Mountaineers.  ala MOM.

 

More options for custom race positive and negative traits.

 

A base tier of weaponry (swords, bows etc.) that includes crude versions of all types that let me set up my basic upgradeable units for the game.

 

Unique traits i can apply to my troops discovered during questing or by crafting skath fins with spider venom sacks (or is that how to make Quendar wine?)... you get the idea.

 

 

 

 

 

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November 7, 2012 2:30:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

As I posted over in the original thread, I would like more scenarios, including more sovereign backstories. Particularly something from a Fallen perspective, although it would also be interesting to find out what Markin and Irane were up to while Relias was screwing things up in the East, or to play through Tarth's rebellion against Capitar.

I kind of like having premade maps as an alternative to random ones - the one I'm playing at the moment has been quite exciting - but would like even more to have some unique twists to how they're played.

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November 7, 2012 3:53:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
It's not a proposed map pack.  It's the first DLC. 

If you don't want more crafted maps, don't get it.

 

Count me as one who wont buy a map-pack to a game with the a great random map generator and modding tools. However if you would sell actual content, I'd be buying. Selling maps to FE is just stupid heh.

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November 7, 2012 4:37:58 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Is the game currently using stamps in map generation? Where are these stamps in game directory if any?

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November 7, 2012 5:49:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@Brad

Some questions about the DLC (and the already pre made maps ingame):

What exactly is pre defined?

- starting positions

- fertile land spots

- resources, quest, champs, monster lairs?

...or is it "only" the design of landmasses?

I love the random maps. But playing a balanced map should be fun too.

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November 7, 2012 7:03:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
It's not a proposed map pack.  It's the first DLC. 

If you don't want more crafted maps, don't get it.

 

 

If you are going to go ahead with this: for this to be worth my money, you'd have to include some new stamps and improve the RMG.  Now that I would value at $5.

 

I still don't think doing individual DLC is a better idea then bundling 3 of them together as a mini-expansion.

 

 

 

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November 7, 2012 9:51:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can't wait for the map pack, I love the created maps.  I love the lore, I wish that along with the maps, it had set starting places, so nations would start where they are suppose to be according to lore.  Looking forward to this, as I find the random maps to be a bit too random and fail at looking like a real place.  Too square and strange with big lakes in the middle, just never looks right to me.

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November 7, 2012 11:16:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NaytchSG,
More mounts for heroes and troops.  

 

Tactical battle maps with city siege enhancements such as destructible walls and arrow towers.  And the trait sapper or destroys fortifications applied to Ogres, trolls, War Slags, Dragons and Earth Elementals.

 

War Slags (see above).  The preferred mounts of Darkling Shamans... 

 

More summons for summoners.

 

More spells.

 

 Waterwalking, flying, swimming units.  Mountaineers.  ala MOM.

 

More options for custom race positive and negative traits.

 

A base tier of weaponry (swords, bows etc.) that includes crude versions of all types that let me set up my basic upgradeable units for the game.

 

Unique traits i can apply to my troops discovered during questing or by crafting skath fins with spider venom sacks (or is that how to make Quendar wine?)... you get the idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hell, yeah!

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November 7, 2012 11:33:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I can't wait for the map pack, I love the created maps.  I love the lore, I wish that along with the maps, it had set starting places, so nations would start where they are suppose to be according to lore.  Looking forward to this, as I find the random maps to be a bit too random and fail at looking like a real place.  Too square and strange with big lakes in the middle, just never looks right to me.

I'm with Lord Xia ...I'll buy the map pack. 4.99 is less than a pack of smokes for entertainment I can't get anywhere else for five bucks.

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November 7, 2012 11:39:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm also interested in the map pack (provided the maps look like they're quality is worth $5).  If the pack contains other stamps, that's even better. 

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November 7, 2012 11:55:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Map pack will contain new stamps for random maps too.

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November 7, 2012 11:56:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1It's not a proposed map pack.  It's the first DLC. 

If you don't want more crafted maps, don't get it.

 

 

If you are going to go ahead with this: for this to be worth my money, you'd have to include some new stamps and improve the RMG.  Now that I would value at $5.

 

I still don't think doing individual DLC is a better idea then bundling 3 of them together as a mini-expansion.

 

 

I like to think of expansions as being game changing things. I.e. coding.  DLC should be content.  More maps, more items, more quests, that sort of thing. There's nothing stopping it from being bundled later.  

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November 7, 2012 12:02:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Map pack will contain new stamps for random maps too.

Well alright then, that makes a difference. WILL be getting this now.

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November 7, 2012 12:02:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I can't wait for the map pack, I love the created maps.  I love the lore, I wish that along with the maps, it had set starting places, so nations would start where they are suppose to be according to lore.  Looking forward to this, as I find the random maps to be a bit too random and fail at looking like a real place.  Too square and strange with big lakes in the middle, just never looks right to me.

Like this please

 

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November 7, 2012 12:22:27 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I can't wait for the map pack, I love the created maps.  I love the lore, I wish that along with the maps, it had set starting places, so nations would start where they are suppose to be according to lore.  Looking forward to this, as I find the random maps to be a bit too random and fail at looking like a real place.  Too square and strange with big lakes in the middle, just never looks right to me.

Now that you mention it, the random maps are unbalanced. I started my second game in a barren wastland, and my current game, I have a bunch of resources and setlleable land practicialy on my doorstep.

Nonetheless, I think SD should work on a random map generator that produces balanced maps. i don't think that's unreasonable.

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November 7, 2012 12:58:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,

Quoting Lord Xia, reply 12I can't wait for the map pack, I love the created maps.  I love the lore, I wish that along with the maps, it had set starting places, so nations would start where they are suppose to be according to lore.  Looking forward to this, as I find the random maps to be a bit too random and fail at looking like a real place.  Too square and strange with big lakes in the middle, just never looks right to me.


Now that you mention it, the random maps are unbalanced. I started my second game in a barren wastland, and my current game, I have a bunch of resources and setlleable land practicialy on my doorstep.

Nonetheless, I think SD should work on a random map generator that produces balanced maps. i don't think that's unreasonable.

I'm noticing a lot of posts (and have made some posts) regarding this issue.  I think the maps as currently generated are great, and love the lack of balance that they provide -- and they're still maps that make perfectly reasonable sense.  I am about 250 turns into an epic paced game and have carved out a small empire for myself without having yet seen another player -- and when I do I know I'm going to be hurting because I have no Iron and very little Crystal.  To balance that, I feel established... like I can make up for those shortcomings by having a huge start area already seeded with the cities I need to succeed.  I'm really looking forward in this particular game to forging ahead and seeing what the rest of the world has in store for me.

I'm not saying you're wrong -- some folks like a lot of balance, but there are those of us who are happier with the "such is life" feel of the game.  Perhaps a compromise is some way to choose between a map that matches the original random model, and one that is more balanced.

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November 7, 2012 1:23:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Map pack will contain new stamps for random maps too.

Something for everyone - sold. 

Gives me a chance to thank you for sticking with the EWOM concept and help fund future games at the same time.

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November 7, 2012 1:35:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I didn't say anything about balance myself, I don't like the way random maps look.  As a whole, they look ridiculous.  They are square with a few square lakes in them.  I want the land that I have my fantasy adventures to look like actual landmasses.  And I like the lore of Elemental, I've read the book twice, I have been active on these forums for years now, and god damn it, I want to play on real maps!  For me, it's not a balance issue at all.  I honestly don't consider myself a great player, but I know the game well enough to win under pretty much any condition a map is going to give me.  I'm more of an RP'r, so I like the land to look like it could be a real place.

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November 7, 2012 1:40:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I didn't say anything about balance myself, I don't like the way random maps look.  As a whole, they look ridiculous.  They are square with a few square lakes in them.  I want the land that I have my fantasy adventures to look like actual landmasses.  And I like the lore of Elemental, I've read the book twice, I have been active on these forums for years now, and god damn it, I want to play on real maps!  For me, it's not a balance issue at all.  I honestly don't consider myself a great player, but I know the game well enough to win under pretty much any condition a map is going to give me.  I'm more of an RP'r, so I like the land to look like it could be a real place.

You gave me a chuckle.

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November 7, 2012 1:51:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I will buy the DLC that includes stamps. Would love a large version of the Elemental world map too.

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November 7, 2012 2:20:53 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I honestly don't consider myself a great player, but I know the game well enough to win under pretty much any condition a map is going to give me.  I'm more of an RP'r, so I like the land to look like it could be a real place.

If you can win the game under any condition, then what's the point of playing it? Seems like it's time to move onto something more challenging.


 

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