Dynasties and Sea Travel

By on October 31, 2012 11:52:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

GaelicVigil

Join Date 08/2010
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I harp on this about once a week, and I'll continue to do so until they're put back in the game.  It's like this: how would you feel if you were looking forward to buying a game with features x, y and z, you waited for months for said game to come out because x, y and z were promised, and you enjoyed x, y and z when the game was released.  Then one day, out of the blue, you download a patch and features x, y and z no long exist.  Would that piss you off?  You purchase something with some great features that you love and all of a sudden you get the bait-and-switch.

I purchased WoM in large part because of the dynasty and ship systems.  The game had those features for quite some time, and then one day they were scrapped.  They disappeared.  That's bullshit.  It's one thing to release a game and later do some balancing and stamp out bugs, it's quite another thing entirely to just cut out entire features of the game that your customer expected and paid for, completely without warning.

Here's the thing, I don't give a damn if they have no quantifiable effect on game-play.  They are fun.  Period.  When I order a burger and fries and it comes with a free toy I don't scream at the guy in the window to take the toy out of the happy meal because it comes with something extra.  Maybe the guy waiting behind you actually wants that free toy.  If YOU don't like dynasties and sea travel, don't use them, it's no skin off your back.  But don't tell me that I should have my free toy removed because you don't like it.

And honestly, I don't care if the AI can't make use of them.  If these two features were put back into the game just the way they were before they removed from WoM, I'd be 100% fine with that.  The reviews are out, the game has been given a unanimous thumbs up by the gaming mainstream media, now it's time to please those of us who got screwed by having these removed in the first place.  I mean, for goodness sake, there is a gigantic ship in the game's desktop wallpaper.  A little bit of false advertising there, you think?

Put them back in Stardock.

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October 31, 2012 1:31:46 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting rvgr,
If you're gonna implement dynasties, you'll have to implement aging and death as well. I would be mighty pissed if I lose a lvl 20+ sovereign to old age.

I wouldn't be pissed if this was implemented. I like this in Total War series actully.

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October 31, 2012 1:38:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 17
Except that developer effort is already done for these features.  They simply need to be turned on again.  How long would that take?  A few hours of work.  

The developer effort ISN'T already done for these features.  If they were to throw them back in as they were in WOM they'd be tacked on, poorly integrated crap that would confuse new players and detract from the quality experience that SD has spent two years crafting in FE.  
 

Yeah, actually it IS already done.  We all saw it working in WoM, or were you stuck in a closet back then?  Like I said about 15 times above, I don't give a crap if they aren't working 100% perfectly.  I'm fine with them working like they did before.  How does an extra free toy "detract from the quality experience"?  That's BS.

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 17

DSRaider, here, says you can easily turn it back on in the XML.  If so, perhaps Paxton or another savvy modder needs to post a mini tutorial on how to do that.  I would be fine with that alternative.

Quoting Kantok,

Nobody needs to do shit and what you're fine with doesn't matter even a little.  Maybe you should get off your ass and figure it out if its so important to you.  No single one of us in the community is such a special snowflake that anyone else needs to do things for us.  None of us have the right to demand anything.  Communities like this operate on good will which your entitled attitude says you clearly don't deserve.  
 

Yes, he does need to do "shit" if he says he can.  Put your money where your mouth is and prove that it can be "turned on" in the xml.  If you say something, back it up.

Quoting Kantok,

DsRaider is a nicer person than I (+1 for him).  I wouldn't have posted that information for you after the attitude you've shown in this thread.  Especially since turning dynasties on has been talked about AT LENGTH and Brad himself has posted before about how to do it.  But it's easier to come in here and throw a tantrum than to do a few minutes of research yourself and figure out how to do things.  

You're attitude isn't "give me what I paid for".  It's "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum".  It's the same attitude as my eight month old son.  On him it's cute, sometimes, but on an adult it's sad and pathetic.  

Oh, get off the ass kissing.  He says you can turn it back on in the xml.  I want him to prove it.  You have a link to Brad posting how to do it?  Give us the link.  My attitude is simple: Don't BS with your players by giving them something, taking it away, promising to bring it back again, then changing your mind hoping people will forget about it.

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October 31, 2012 1:39:09 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,



Quoting Alstein,
reply 9
Dynasties if done right would be something good to add back in the expansion.   Same with naval combat, though I would ok if that was axed for more interesting features, or saved for a mini-expansion after the 2nd expansion when it can be handled on its own (which is what I think it would take)
 


"If done right"?  They were cool before.  Were they perfect?  No, of course not, but I don't care if it wasn't perfect, it was cool as it was.  I loved it, I bought WoM for it.  I want it back.  It doesn't hurt anyone else to have them back in.
 
 



Quoting Alstein,
reply 9

I still think there's plenty of things that can be done to improve what already exists in FE.   Several things aren't balanced or are non-choices right now (recruitables don't work right, several balance issues, etc)

 


Exactly, there are already TONS of imbalanced things in FE right now.  So why do so many people get their panties in a wad when it is suggested we put something back in because it will "hurt the balance".  The game is already unbalanced, it's a sandbox game.  More toys in my sandbox is ALWAYS better.

Are you confusing WOM with Total War?  In Total War the Dynasties were good. But in WOM they just plain sucked.  Oh and by the way are you crying right now? Becuase your coming off as a Entitiled spoiled brat. 

GIME GIME GIME RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 

 

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October 31, 2012 1:43:21 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,



Quoting GFireflyE,
reply 12

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 5


So you don't want the toy in the happy meal.  Don't use it then, but don't force others to play the way you do.

&

I don't care what you like and don't like.  Don't force me to do what you like.  And I shouldn't have to pay for ships in an expansion that I ALREADY paid for in the original game.

I don't care if it's incomplete, put it in as it was.  A big mac and an extra small fry is better than a big mac and nothing.


Right back at you. Don't force your ideas onto other players and especially don't think you know better than those that actually made the game.

Suggestions and opinions are all you have.

I've chosen to utilize those tools. You should do the same.

You're attitude displayed here pretty much voided any point in continuing this thread as you are obviously very upset that these two features were left out of FE.


Excuse me?  STARDOCK forced Dyansties and Ships on us in WoM and I bought the game with those features included.  I'm not forcing my ideas on you, but you're forcing them on me.  At the current time I CAN NEVER have ships and dynasties  but if they were in the game you can still choose to use them or not.

My attitude is:  Give me what I paid for.  You don't like that attitude.  Fine.

Well you did get what you paid for. It is called WOM.  FE is not WOM  nor was it ever suppose to be. It was an apology game for those that bought the flop we know as WOM.  So you did not pay for FE.  I understand wanting these features in the game but you sound like such a p..... Err well never mind

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October 31, 2012 1:45:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bellack,

Are you confusing WOM with Total War?  In Total War the Dynasties were good. But in WOM they just plain sucked.  Oh and by the way are you crying right now? Becuase your coming off as a Entitiled spoiled brat. 

GIME GIME GIME RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 

That they sucked is your own opinion.  I thought they were awesome.

Look, call me crazy, but I like Role-Playing games.  Maybe it's hard for us all to get along because Elemental is half strategy, half RPG.  But I think FE removed some of that RP because of the lack of ships and dynasties.

One of the greatest games of all time was Morrowind because it had tons and tons of "toys" in there to role-play with.  But you know what?  Most of them were totally unbalancing and half-broken.  But, you see, people still loved them because they allowed you to make the game your own - they let you role-play whatever the hell you wanted.  Want to fly across the map?  Done.  Levitation?  Done.  Want to make a crazy sword that simultanously shot fireballs across the screen, while draining life, while making you float, while making the enemy freeze?  Done.

Ships and Dynasties in Elemental made very little difference on game mechanics, but you know what?  They were fun.  They made you care about your characters much more, they made you care about losing your spouse in a distant land, on a foreign shore.  They created little stories for your kingdom to build around.  They gave the game more character and feeling.  I want that back in the game, maybe some of you who love strategy games don't, but there are two crowds here: an RPG crowd and a TBS crowd.  Both should be EQUALLY represented in the game as that is what the game purports to be.

 

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October 31, 2012 1:46:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"Go into ElementalDefs.xml and change <EnableDynasties>0</EnableDynasties> to <EnableDynasties>1</EnableDynasties>."

I found that with about 4 seconds of Googling. Which is a lot less time than it probably took you to write one of your rants.

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October 31, 2012 1:50:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bellack,


Well you did get what you paid for. It is called WOM.  FE is not WOM  nor was it ever suppose to be. It was an apology game for those that bought the flop we know as WOM.  So you did not pay for FE.  I understand wanting these features in the game but you sound like such a p..... Err well never mind

No I didn't get what I paid for because after a few months, what I paid for, was removed from the game.  You call WoM a flop, that's your opinion.  I liked WoM for what it was.  Is FE superior.  Yes, barely.  But it's still missing some features that gave WoM its charm.  Rumor has it that those features still exist, maybe in the code still.  It doesn't sound to me like it would be much work to get those back again if they were already built at one point.

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October 31, 2012 1:50:51 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kantok,



Quoting GaelicVigil,
reply 17

Except that developer effort is already done for these features.  They simply need to be turned on again.  How long would that take?  A few hours of work.  


The developer effort ISN'T already done for these features.  If they were to throw them back in as they were in WOM they'd be tacked on, poorly integrated crap that would confuse new players and detract from the quality experience that SD has spent two years crafting in FE.  




Quoting GaelicVigil,
reply 17



DSRaider, here, says you can easily turn it back on in the XML.  If so, perhaps Paxton or another savvy modder needs to post a mini tutorial on how to do that.  I would be fine with that alternative.



Nobody needs to do shit and what you're fine with doesn't matter even a little.  Maybe you should get off your ass and figure it out if its so important to you.  No single one of us in the community is such a special snowflake that anyone else needs to do things for us.  None of us have the right to demand anything.  Communities like this operate on good will which your entitled attitude says you clearly don't deserve.  

DsRaider is a nicer person than I (+1 for him).  I wouldn't have posted that information for you after the attitude you've shown in this thread.  Especially since turning dynasties on has been talked about AT LENGTH and Brad himself has posted before about how to do it.  But it's easier to come in here and throw a tantrum than to do a few minutes of research yourself and figure out how to do things.  

You're attitude isn't "give me what I paid for".  It's "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum".  It's the same attitude as my eight month old son.  On him it's cute, sometimes, but on an adult it's sad and pathetic.  

Well said And I to would like to give DsRaider a +1 for putting up with him/her/it.  But I have to disagree with the last two lines of your statement.  It wasn't "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum"  he/she/it  came started in full tantrum mode.

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October 31, 2012 1:52:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The devs had said that dynasties can easily be modded in, I can't confirm it as i have never done it, but I have seen it posted many times, but those that have done it say it's buggy and incomplete.  As for boats, I assume it could be modded in fairly easily too.  But, I don't know shit for modding, I'm just parroting what other have said.  but, I too would wish that these features would be re-introduced at some time, but I don't really feel like talking more about it, as we have had several pages of discussions about it before.  And until the Devs say anything about it being done, I assume it won't be.

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October 31, 2012 1:53:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,

Quoting Bellack, reply 28
Are you confusing WOM with Total War?  In Total War the Dynasties were good. But in WOM they just plain sucked.  Oh and by the way are you crying right now? Becuase your coming off as a Entitiled spoiled brat. 

GIME GIME GIME RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 

That they sucked is your own opinion.  I thought they were awesome.

Look, call me crazy, but I like Role-Playing games.  Maybe it's hard for us all to get along because Elemental is half strategy, half RPG.  But I think FE removed some of that RP because of the lack of ships and dynasties.

One of the greatest games of all time was Morrowind because it had tons and tons of "toys" in there to role-play with.  But you know what?  Most of them were totally unbalancing and half-broken.  But, you see, people still loved them because they allowed you to make the game your own - they let you role-play whatever the hell you wanted.  Want to fly across the map?  Done.  Levitation?  Done.  Want to make a crazy sword that simultanously shot fireballs across the screen, while draining life, while making you float, while making the enemy freeze?  Done.

Ships and Dynasties in Elemental made very little difference on game mechanics, but you know what?  They were fun.  They made you care about your characters much more, they made you care about losing your spouse in a distant land, on a foreign shore.  They created little stories for your kingdom to build around.  They gave the game more character and feeling.  I want that back in the game, maybe some of you who love strategy games don't, but there are two crowds here: an RPG crowd and a TBS crowd.  Both should be EQUALLY represented in the game as that is what the game purports to be.

 

Jesus, just go play War of Magic.  

I want a first person RPG set in an apocolyptic future that has dragons, swords, horses, guns, nuclear waste, and a weird dragon soul/shout system but with the stat detail of an old school D&D based game.  Bethesda should make that RIGHT NOW because I demand it, I'm special, and because they've made separate games that each include some of those features before. 

Translation:  WOM and FE are two different games.  They have different feature sets.  Is that really so complicated a notion?

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October 31, 2012 1:54:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bellack,


Well said And I to would like to give DsRaider a +1 for putting up with him/her/it.  But I have to disagree with the last two lines of your statement.  It wasn't "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum"  he/she/it  came started in full tantrum mode.

Fair enough.  I'll concede your last point.  Bad analogy on my part. 

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October 31, 2012 1:55:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cymsdale,
"Go into ElementalDefs.xml and change <EnableDynasties>0</EnableDynasties> to <EnableDynasties>1</EnableDynasties>."

I found that with about 4 seconds of Googling. Which is a lot less time than it probably took you to write one of your rants.

Can anyone confirm this actually works like WoM?  

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October 31, 2012 1:56:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My man, I think you are losing credibility fast...

 

If your purpose is to enjoy dynasties in your game, read reply #32 and just do that - it takes 3 seconds.

If your purpose is to troll about the game, then you are 100% on target...

 

There are many things I would also like changed in the game (balance issues, the ability to snake cities to rivers and build piers etc.) but I spent the time, found the fix, and implemented it...

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October 31, 2012 1:57:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,
Quoting Cymsdale, reply 32"Go into ElementalDefs.xml and change <EnableDynasties>0</EnableDynasties> to <EnableDynasties>1</EnableDynasties>."

I found that with about 4 seconds of Googling. Which is a lot less time than it probably took you to write one of your rants.

Can anyone confirm this actually works like WoM?  

 

JUST FRIGGING DO IT AND CHECK !!! IT TAKES 3 SECONDS !!!

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October 31, 2012 2:01:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bellack,

Quoting Kantok, reply 26


Quoting GaelicVigil,
reply 17

Except that developer effort is already done for these features.  They simply need to be turned on again.  How long would that take?  A few hours of work.  


The developer effort ISN'T already done for these features.  If they were to throw them back in as they were in WOM they'd be tacked on, poorly integrated crap that would confuse new players and detract from the quality experience that SD has spent two years crafting in FE.  




Quoting GaelicVigil,
reply 17



DSRaider, here, says you can easily turn it back on in the XML.  If so, perhaps Paxton or another savvy modder needs to post a mini tutorial on how to do that.  I would be fine with that alternative.



Nobody needs to do shit and what you're fine with doesn't matter even a little.  Maybe you should get off your ass and figure it out if its so important to you.  No single one of us in the community is such a special snowflake that anyone else needs to do things for us.  None of us have the right to demand anything.  Communities like this operate on good will which your entitled attitude says you clearly don't deserve.  

DsRaider is a nicer person than I (+1 for him).  I wouldn't have posted that information for you after the attitude you've shown in this thread.  Especially since turning dynasties on has been talked about AT LENGTH and Brad himself has posted before about how to do it.  But it's easier to come in here and throw a tantrum than to do a few minutes of research yourself and figure out how to do things.  

You're attitude isn't "give me what I paid for".  It's "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum".  It's the same attitude as my eight month old son.  On him it's cute, sometimes, but on an adult it's sad and pathetic.  


Well said And I to would like to give DsRaider a +1 for putting up with him/her/it.  But I have to disagree with the last two lines of your statement.  It wasn't "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum"  he/she/it  came started in full tantrum mode.

Great illustration of why WoM failed so bad and FE still struggles.  Stardock has put WAY too much stock into the group think on these forums.  You all get into your little cliques and gang bang anyone new who goes against the grain.  "Dont beat up on my pal x, he's nice, you're a jerk" is the constant response I get when I bring up an idea.  Newsflash: the people paying Stardock's bills don't all sit on these forums 24/7.  

Wardell has and always has puts too much focus on the rabid fandumb instead of the community as a whole, then they scratch their heads when all the reviewers lambast the game.  Shutting people up with phony ass-kissery and ad hominim attacks won't change the fact that there's a whole butt load of people who see the game different from the handful here on this site.

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October 31, 2012 2:04:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ins2,
My man, I think you are losing credibility fast...

 

If your purpose is to enjoy dynasties in your game, read reply #32 and just do that - it takes 3 seconds.

If your purpose is to troll about the game, then you are 100% on target...

 

There are many things I would also like changed in the game (balance issues, the ability to snake cities to rivers and build piers etc.) but I spent the time, found the fix, and implemented it...

Considering I haven't had a single person actually confirm this works, I think you're losing credibility.  Throwing out a one-liner xml entry and then calling me a troll for not believing in it 125% is a little absurd, dont you think?

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October 31, 2012 2:06:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sheesh everyone should chill out he has his opinion you have your opinion and everyone should be free to state their opinion. If he has a logical enough argument in his favor he can influence the devs if not then nothing happens--no reason to get into flame wars over it.

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October 31, 2012 2:06:45 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,



Quoting Bellack,
reply 28

Are you confusing WOM with Total War?  In Total War the Dynasties were good. But in WOM they just plain sucked.  Oh and by the way are you crying right now? Becuase your coming off as a Entitiled spoiled brat. 

GIME GIME GIME RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 


That they sucked is your own opinion.  I thought they were awesome.

Look, call me crazy, but I like Role-Playing games.  Maybe it's hard for us all to get along because Elemental is half strategy, half RPG.  But I think FE removed some of that RP because of the lack of ships and dynasties.

One of the greatest games of all time was Morrowind because it had tons and tons of "toys" in there to role-play with.  But you know what?  Most of them were totally unbalancing and half-broken.  But, you see, people still loved them because they allowed you to make the game your own - they let you role-play whatever the hell you wanted.  Want to fly across the map?  Done.  Levitation?  Done.  Want to make a crazy sword that simultanously shot fireballs across the screen, while draining life, while making you float, while making the enemy freeze?  Done.

Ships and Dynasties in Elemental made very little difference on game mechanics, but you know what?  They were fun.  They made you care about your characters much more, they made you care about losing your spouse in a distant land, on a foreign shore.  They created little stories for your kingdom to build around.  They gave the game more character and feeling.  I want that back in the game, maybe some of you who love strategy games don't, but there are two crowds here: an RPG crowd and a TBS crowd.  Both should be EQUALLY represented in the game as that is what the game purports to be.

 

Morrowind was not one of the greatest games of all times. It looked horrible and was the second worst Elder Scroll game put out. The Modding community did make it much better after several years but hardly a great game.  They way that there were a lot of broken features in the game is a big part of what made it unfun to play.

Now I do like RPG and TBS in the same game but the Dynesties in WOM were not implemented very well hence why they suched. And yes the ship AI also sucked (which in this day and age I fail to see why a moden AI can't handle them) which is why they took them out in the first place.

Now when I say I want ships and other sea units/monsters in the game I mean I want the AI as well as myself to be able to affectivly use them.  If the AI does not even use ships then I don't want them until they can use them.  Because this will be yet one more advantage that the player will have over the AI.

Currently the one feature I would like to see the devs work on other than Bug fixing and balancing is getting a decent ship/seaunit/monsters put into the game

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October 31, 2012 2:07:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The problem is that Gaelic has the tendency to be a huge asshole about everything.  

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October 31, 2012 2:09:23 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I'm just parroting what other have said.  

 

Can you say "Lord Xia want a cracker."  

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October 31, 2012 2:10:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kantok,



Quoting Bellack,
reply 34


Well said And I to would like to give DsRaider a +1 for putting up with him/her/it.  But I have to disagree with the last two lines of your statement.  It wasn't "give me what I want now or I'll throw a tantrum"  he/she/it  came started in full tantrum mode.


Fair enough.  I'll concede your last point.  Bad analogy on my part. 

 

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October 31, 2012 2:22:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
The problem is that Gaelic has the tendency to be a huge asshole about everything.  

That's the second time in 2 days you've called me that.  Look in the mirror pal.

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October 31, 2012 2:28:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I already know I'm an asshole.

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October 31, 2012 2:31:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bellack,

Morrowind was not one of the greatest games of all times. It looked horrible and was the second worst Elder Scroll game put out. The Modding community did make it much better after several years but hardly a great game.  They way that there were a lot of broken features in the game is a big part of what made it unfun to play.

Really...head over to the Bethesda forums and say that.  I dare ya. 

Quoting Bellack,

Now I do like RPG and TBS in the same game but the Dynesties in WOM were not implemented very well hence why they suched. And yes the ship AI also sucked (which in this day and age I fail to see why a moden AI can't handle them) which is why they took them out in the first place.

Now when I say I want ships and other sea units/monsters in the game I mean I want the AI as well as myself to be able to affectivly use them.  If the AI does not even use ships then I don't want them until they can use them.  Because this will be yet one more advantage that the player will have over the AI.

Currently the one feature I would like to see the devs work on other than Bug fixing and balancing is getting a decent ship/seaunit/monsters put into the game

Again, I thought these features were fun just as they were, even while they were lacking.  They added a lot of RP value to the game that made things more personal and interesting.  I don't really see how having ships is much more of an advantage over the AI.  I can currently set the AI difficulty to Easy and nerf the AI completely.  Is that having an unfair advantage over the AI?  As Paxton was explaining at the end of the podcast, you can currently teleport to the enemy base with the Pariden as a player using their Arcane Monolith ability, even though the AI likely isn't smart enough to find this out.  That, IMO, is more of an exploit as using a ship to get there.  At least a ship takes time to travel.

 

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October 31, 2012 2:32:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I already know I'm an asshole.

Do we get sigs on these forums?  I want that in there.

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