Getting owned (in easy)

By on October 27, 2012 7:06:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

globalob

Join Date 10/2012
0

 Hello,

I have played the tutorial and have stuck to the same champion so I can get good with one champion (Magnar). I have just lost my third game in a row on easy level (wasn't expecting that). I've never been the greatest at 4x games but I usually do okay on easy and normal levels ( although I can play total war on vh). 

In my first game it defaulted to small map so I played on that and found myself boxed in with no where to expand. I then noticed the AI had built up much better than me and when war was declared I was wiped out. In the second game I changed to a medium map and was able to get 2 cities started but again was too far behind and lost. In my third game I did a little better or so I thought but again the Ai had 4 times my cities and might etc and I was wiped out again. I did manage to get 4 cities this time.

What is a good start for Magnar? I have been trying to occupy the starting area and any near tiles that allow a city to be built.

I have been focusing on magic but I come across enemy archers that wipe me out. The enemy armies seem to have way more armour, so should I perhaps forget about magic and concentrate on researching warfare stuff?

If I take on a champion that has been killed a few times and they get negative traits can I get them removed?

If not should I destroy the champion or release him/her if possible and get a new one? 

I read on the forum that the more champions you have reduces the viability of each of the individual champions so is it better to have just the one + your starting hero (which is what I have been doing) or maybe only your starting hero? 

I don't touch my taxes and leave them on low, I never seem to run out of money so is this a good strategy? 

Is Magnar a good champion for a beginner? 

Any advice appreciated, not complaining by the way I am enjoying the game, the amount of variables is amazing.

 

Thanks.

TL DR: Me sucky with Magnar, Give help naow plox 

Locked Post 15 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 7:41:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Easy in Stardock games is usually not easy at all.  For me it helped a lot to get leather and spears quickly, without armor your troops are going down very quickly.   I also find that elite troops are much better choice rather than spamming crappy but cheap troops.  If you are rolling in money build more troops and go after the A.i asap because they are not going to stay peaceful.

Spamming cities should be high priority early game because the A.I will be doing the same and there almost isn't any downside having lots of cities. 

Cant comment on Magnar as I always play with custom sovereign

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 8:14:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great thanks I will start a new game now and  try that.

 

I think I may ditch Magnar for now then and find a hero that is more melee based. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 8:19:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Take 4-5 civ techs first, then go all war techs for a while. Design units that are upgradable (chose the option with the green arrow beside it when you take weapons and armour). Make your first little army fight monsters all the time to level. When war comes use this army to go straight for his best army and take him out. Rinse and repeat. Or get the death demons (from death shards) of Ceresa and make them split by delivering killing blows. That makes the game very different and fun

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 8:29:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Cool thanks,

In my 3 games I never came across death shards, do they work like the fire shards? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 9:33:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Death shards are the same thing as life shards - depending on which side you're on (kingdom/empire) when you build over one of them, they will change "color" to match your faction.  Ceresa (Resolyn) also has a spell that can turn any type of shard into a death shard.

Yes champion injuries can be removed, by rare loot potions that you'll occasionally find from quests.  But if you get a heavily injured champ sometimes its better to just station them in one of your cities, both for added defense, but also stationed champs reduce unrest - so a stationed champ will increase your production and research in that city.  So no, I wouldn't destroy a champ ever.  Also if you have more than one champ in the same army stack there will be less exp per hero (it splits more).  So you'll level more slowly.  Usually I go for 1 champ per stack, but you can get +exp bonuses to everything in the army traits on level up (found randomly at later levels) , or things like "potential" (+exp at lower levels) so if you want to put several champs in the same army it won't cripple you.

That's about my same tax strategy.  I rarely touch taxes and just sell monster loot if I'm low on gold.

I'd agree with the above on Magnar.  I'd suggest with him building some slave units (they build really fast) and send 2-3 along with the lord as meat shields while you level up.  Plus some of the special spells that Magnar race gets to kill a unit to heal/ buff work well.  Building a few really cheap slaves to send out solo as expendable scouts (setting them to explore) works well too for the early game and lets you know where good places to settle might be.  Researching some civ techs to start is always good, up to trading. The blind spell as any of the empire factions (death spell) can be very powerful, especially against archers.  Magnar is generally magic themed, and fireball can wipe out armies nomatter how much armor they have - so if you can grab a rank in fire magic, try that out.

Hope it helps!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 9:45:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

I have been focusing on magic but I come across enemy archers that wipe me out. The enemy armies seem to have way more armour, so should I perhaps forget about magic and concentrate on researching warfare stuff?

 

Go for the other two tech trees.  In general, play a faction that suits your own playing style--so if you want to delve into magic a lot, Magnar's probably not the best choice.

If I take on a champion that has been killed a few times and they get negative traits can I get them removed?

 

There is one weak quest in which you face a butcherman, and acquire a single potion that will cure negative traits.  That's it, in the game.  My advice is to save before battle.

I read on the forum that the more champions you have reduces the viability of each of the individual champions so is it better to have just the one + your starting hero (which is what I have been doing) or maybe only your starting hero?

 

No: the more champions you have in a single stack, the slower they'll gain battle experience.  That said, pairing them off and adding summons or far worse, city troops just isn't always a viable option, not when you're faced with a lot of medium, strong, and deadly opponents.  Keep them together, at least for a while, and get someone with Air 2 to cast Tutelage on your champions and sovereign.  (Keeping them together will help you develop a sense of how their abilities feed into one another, as well.)  Also, choose a few experience-enhancing traits.

I don't touch my taxes and leave them on low, I never seem to run out of money so is this a good strategy?

 

Depends on how you play.  Some people get lots of unrest reduction buildings, and then ramp up taxes to medium.  In general, more of all resources helps.  You can buy mounts (once you've researched them, and built on their sites), and even buy things if you're in a non-aggression pact or alliance with an AI opponent.  If that opponent is Pariden or Pariden-customized, and they're well into the midgame, they may even have spellbooks on sale.

Is Magnar a good champion for a beginner?

 

For what little my opinion's worth, I think the slavery mechanic drives a need for war, and there's much more to learn about the game elsewhere.  I'd suggest Gilden or Altar.  Play on the easiest settings, both for the game's overall AI, and the opponents AI.  Choose just two or three opponents, and go with a medium or large map.  Get a feel for how cities build, spells work, resources are gathered, and the monsters you'll face.  Be sure to read the lore in the Hiergamenon--that's the in-game help system.  And you can double-click on any monster stack in view in order to get a screen discussing the creature, offering all its stats, and traits.


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 9:49:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I also wouldn't worry about the Magic techs that give your units magic items unless you have crystal income. 

I'd also say when it comes to the Civilization techs Joasoze  mentions, Trading is one of the most important, opens up roads between cities.  Restoration is probably the #1 thing I'd research after civics.  If you can't build a logging camp, because not located near a forest, the workshop will most likely be your first production improver.  merchant is also good for added income.  means being able to buy/rush things or pay more wages. 

 

There's a short period of time where lone champions are good.  Soon you should give them some troops to travel with to take harder monsterrs.

Re: Death Shard Question, well they will power up spells under death magic. 

Re: Magnar.  This Sovereign has a strategy to employ unique to him/his faction.  First off, he's a warlock.  He'll do the most damage blowing up things (or burning them ) with spells.   He can train slaves and they cost no wages.  That's right.  No wages.  Train as many as you can as often as you can.  Use them as fodder.  There's even special spells that make them blow up and do more damage.  I would make a few good defensive units that weren't slaves and use slaves to fill out army stack.  Make border defence forces.  Prepare to take out your neighbor.  Burn baby burn.  Definitely want to get Magnar at least Fire 2 or Fire 3 on the levelups.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 10:10:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks for all the info. 

I just had a horrendous start for my 4th game ( Magnar got jumped and killed whilst scouting for 2 nd city location) so retired quickly and will now try again on 5th. From what's been written here it seems I have not been using my strengths and will get more slaves. Also a big problem has been finding places to settle so the tip to make slaves and set them to scout seems like an awesome idea. I will as suggested put opponent Ai to easy as I only had the game set to easy. If this game does not go to good will then try Gilden as per suggestion ( just can't bring myself to give up on Magnar just yet). 

 

Thanks for the help. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 10:52:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I was in the same boat as you until I understood that Easy mode can actually mean Medium to Difficult in some aspects.  I suggest you drop down on level (to Novice or Beginner-forget which) and set the distribution of food/materials/essence to dense.  This latter option will make it easier (but not too easy) to find good areas for new cities.

Once you get good at that level, move up one.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 27, 2012 10:53:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Update:

I thought easy was the lowest setting but just found there are 2 below that being beginner and novice so hopefully all should be good. 

 

- ah lol thanks Gammit I didn't see you had typed that, definitely makes a difference, I am now up to 6 cities and can work on getting to grips with it all. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 28, 2012 3:30:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, it's a common misconception that "Easy" is easy.  While they may tout they've yet to crank up the pain for the advanced players.  But to a new player.  "Easy" can be a wake up call. I felt that way till I played more than several games. 

Also the slave scout is probably good idea so you could make them fast and send them out in all kinds of directions uncovering the map much more faster.. 

Good luck and have fun

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 28, 2012 4:07:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Don't play on a small map. Play on a medium or large and you should have an easier time as well.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 28, 2012 4:17:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

A couple of things to make your life easier:

First, Magnar (the faction) isn't really a good choice to start out the game with... they have a mechanic (slavery) that requires a bit of planning and demands a certain play style to make full use. In general, it's better to make elite troops instead of cheap ones (due to army limits and stack of doom effect), Magnar turns this on its head with lots of cheap troops that just aren't very good unless you're using it in combination with very specific sacrifice strategies. I'd recommend trying a more traditional faction like Kraxis or Gilden until you are more familiar with the game.

Second, it's generally better to play on larger maps in the beginning (but don't fill it with too many players either). Bigger maps often gives you some room to expand and thus more time to experiment/get used to the game.

Third, money should be spent, it's not doing much good sitting around (unless you are using a very specific income strategy). In general, if you have spare money, buy stuff with it. Rushing key infrastructure in the beginning is particularly important because it has a much bigger return. I like rushing unrest buildings or gold production buildings as it pays back via more taxes that I can then used to rush other things. Just keep a bit of gold around for emergencies.

Fourth, don't put multiple champions in the same stack unless you absolutely need to (have to beat a certain army and need all you can muster to do it). The reason, as others explained, is due to reduced exp gain when you do. This means even your sovereign should be alone. Accompany your champions with troops, summons, or whatever else you can make without too much trouble (don't spend too much production turn making troops early). The main goal is to be able to beat monsters without losses and level as fast as you can, leveling is important, because without it, heroes are pretty weak.

And finally: Try not to get your champion/sovereign killed. Not only does champions gets injuries, they also are taken out of the game for several turns (that sets you back in your early game efforts). Experienced player do this instinctively by knowing what they can fight and avoiding those they know they can't win. For new players, don't be afraid to save and reload.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 28, 2012 5:14:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Everything Kalin said is very true, and well worth listening to.

I would add only one thing to it: Do not trust the default troops.  They are very poorly designed.  Roll your own. It's almost always worth having all three traits, and usually, it's better when the straits stack with each other than when they cover all bases.  Once you have researched a lot of equipment, complement the trait with the right equipment.

Examples of traits/Equipment that really go together:

Elusive warg rider.

Acrobat + lithe + balance -> a total of 16 dodge, which increases as levels go up.

Warg + monk's robe + cloak of shadows -> a total of 25 dodge

Combine them, and you get an unit that dodges half of what's thrown at it.

Add Krax blood, Lucky and Blindness, and you get an unit that dodges everything, period.

Heavy cavalry

Horse + Muscle + Strength + Ironskin -> the ability to wear heavy armor, and a bit of an extra boost.

Make sure you mark armor as upgradable, and refresh the unit as you research. You can add chain belts, amulets of this and that to increase the unit defense.  This unit will be very durable, and as the available armor improves, nearly indestructible.

Warg archer

Warg + Muscle + Fury + Fast -> +2 to attack, and some extra initiative.

Give them a bow, mark it as upgradable, use magic items to add damage and initiative, and you have an unit that will attack the most danagerous enemy units and take them out before they can hurt you.

And many many more...  This is a game worth diving into.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 28, 2012 5:28:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can post stuff, but afraid it will lose context in all the other posted stuff.

Magnar is fine as a starting sovereign, that said Magnar is played differently than the other factions.

There are a lot of different tactics to embrace, first rule of elemental: You always need civilization technology, you cannot see the 3 tech tree's as separate, they are 1 big tech tree divided to confuse new players .
What I mean with this is you need all the different tech tree's to be competitive.

I recommend getting a few civ tech's (one or two) right off the bat, then get the technology to use spears and leather armour. When you can field leather armoured spearmen (you have to design them yourself). Field some units of these (a general tactic that works for each faction too).

To start off with, it can really help designing a unit with "Staff, Weak", build one of those units quickly to accompany your hero and act as meatshield.
As Magnar this tactic differs to "Slave, Staff". and you can build 2 or 3 to accompany your heroes. Also as magnar its easier to divide your two starting heroes into 2 stacks (that really boosts xp gained per turn used).
If you have 2 heroes in the same stack, you will divide all XP gained by 2.
If you have 3 heroes in the same stack, you will divide all XP gained by 3 (for the whole stack), and so forth,
so if you keep 1 hero with trained units they will gain full XP, and can go around killing wolves, mites and darklings until your heroes get to level 5.

Run with "No Taxes" until your initial city reaches level 2, this will boost tech and construction time in the first few turns while sacrificing 0.4 gold per turn.
Do note that cities with 2 grain will note level up to level 2 unless they gain a food bonus.

Also, start your games by aiming to expand, you always have to build new cities, especially right off the bat, the first unit built should always either be a lumber-mill or a pioneer, and then build a few more pioneers for good measure.
(Only build lumber-mill from the start if your city have 3 or 4 materials).

These are a few quick tips, hope they help, if you want more just ask.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108433  walnut3   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000343   Page Render Time: