Ecomental - Map Mod

By on October 16, 2012 4:49:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Jam3

Join Date 02/2003
+15

Ecomental

0.1

A map mod for Elemental - (built from .99 files)

Download

Install - Download and unzip both files to your ..\Users\...\Documents\My Games\FallenEnchantress\Mods\

*You can create a subfolder if you like ..\Mods\Ecomental\

Check "Use Mods" in Elementals in-game options

 

Goals

 *Currently all goals are overridden by the default stamps until the editor is released

** I love mountains, water, and chasms but currently they are eating up valuable playing real estate and there are more than enough of those terrain objects on the stamps  in general the terrain is more open mainly so the ai can expand better by reducing obstructive terrain

- Create maps that suppport the underlying game above all other considerations

- Create Ecologies, group squares of like terrain and have adjacencies that make sense

 

Current Functionality

-Modified Grain, Material, and Essence values, You will find alot more essence especially in forests/adjacent and adjacent to rivers. Grain wil be more noticeable adjacent to rivers and in fertile plains and material more prevalent in forests.

-Added a XL 10x8 and XXL 12x8 Map (anything over 12x8 throws a warning)

-Added Lush map type for all sizes, promotes Forest and Fertile stamps/terrain

-Added Ecology map type for all sizes, promotes Forest, Fertile, Desert, Swamp, Rugged stamps/terrain

*These are the "non-obstructive" terrain types

-Overal lowered likelyhood and size of obstructive terrain types: Mountain, Chasm, Water, all maps 5-15% base water, remember all these types will be prevalent depending on stamps regardless of underlying terraintype settings

-Desert now costs 2 moves like forest/swamp

 

 

Long term

- Make mountains crossable at 1 square per turn, add monster lairs in mountains, currently ai doesn't seem to recognize it can cross a mountain if you set mountains to be passable and monster lairs don't lie flat on the mesh

-better adjust quests and monsters to their proper ecology

-add beaches, currently you can add the back but river mouths float above them, if you manually lower the y axis for all the river mouth props it creates a second graphic

-create stamps once the editor is released

 

Notes

-Have tried to fix the river mouth problem where it doesn't join a body of water and floats over the terrain, this is a bug stardock has to fix

-Would love to see stardock add events to terraintypes, forced dismount in swamps, waterskins required for desert travel, a bunch of other game effects I would love to introduce based on terrain

-Would like to add forests to hills and mountains

 

An example 12x8 Ecology Map

 

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Nick-Danger
athelasloraiel
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MisterAedan
jshores
October 16, 2012 5:00:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The magic springs from the rivers and forests!

 

The Enhanced Grain / Material / Essence Distributon

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October 16, 2012 11:12:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The hills are alive with the sound of muusic. 

Seriously, for a second.  Awesome idea.  Going to check it out.

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October 16, 2012 11:15:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Looking at your pic of the cloth map I just realized that one of the reasons I love the feature so much is because it feels like a higher resolution version of an old 8-bit RPG.

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October 16, 2012 4:10:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Well mountains have sure changed in .99 allowed 1 square per turn movement over them and the ai not only moves over them but apparently has taken to constructing cities into the mountainside and roads go over them as well

 

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October 17, 2012 11:04:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That is awesome. Thanks for the great mod

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October 17, 2012 12:21:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jam3,
Well mountains have sure changed in .99 allowed 1 square per turn movement over them and the ai not only moves over them but apparently has taken to constructing cities into the mountainside and roads go over them as well

I think this might be your mod because I haven't seen this behavior.

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October 17, 2012 2:17:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting mqpiffle,
Quoting Jam3, reply 5Well mountains have sure changed in .99 allowed 1 square per turn movement over them and the ai not only moves over them but apparently has taken to constructing cities into the mountainside and roads go over them as well

I think this might be your mod because I haven't seen this behavior.

 

Yeah I don't have mountain movement enabled in the mod that was just from turning it on and seeing how the ai behaved, I think its looking at the "hidden" (once flattened) GEM rating cause the town had 3 essence.

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October 17, 2012 2:48:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not so sure about making mountains passable, maybe chains could feature a Mountain Pass as a feature that is crossable.  I actually like having impassable obstructions such as mountains, it helps with strategic decisions such as which cities I need to defend and what cities belonging to my rivals would be good to take for their strategic value because of chokepoints created by impassable terrain.

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October 17, 2012 3:15:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jam3,

Quoting mqpiffle, reply 7Quoting Jam3, reply 5Well mountains have sure changed in .99 allowed 1 square per turn movement over them and the ai not only moves over them but apparently has taken to constructing cities into the mountainside and roads go over them as well

I think this might be your mod because I haven't seen this behavior.

 

Yeah I don't have mountain movement enabled in the mod that was just from turning it on and seeing how the ai behaved, I think its looking at the "hidden" (once flattened) GEM rating cause the town had 3 essence.

 

I like the idea of being able to build on the mountains. Does it look terrible? It's hard to tell from your picture.

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October 17, 2012 7:41:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


It looks ok til you zoom in, and that was just from that one example.

 

The idea of mountains as impassable terrain is almost laughable to me, always has been in any game that makes them impassable. A simple look at a map or a read of military history will tell you that mountains are both lived in and even on as well as passed over/around/through by armies stretching back to the classical period. Maybe if you wanted to classify passability of mountains by size and allow for a few Himilaya type impassable ranges thats fine.

 

I have a bigger problem with them allowing roads through swamps and deserts to be honest. Granted desert should be classified into high and low desert and high desert might be more passable, but the idea building a road in a medieval period fantasy game through a swamp or low desert environment is nutty let alone taking an army through one.  Has anyone ever been in a real swamp? There is a real chance of a gator eating you and your chance of disease goes up pretty much by the minute you spend wading through it, if you can even wade through it if its shallow enough and the bottom solid enough for you not to sink into, taking a horse into one equals a dead horse. Building a road through one? Thats even crazy in the modern world a swamp is essentially the top of a lake sitting in highly permeable earth.

 

And desert, anyone ever been to death valley a classic low altitude desert environment? How long could you live there, I would count it by hours not days, moving an army might be easier through a desert than a swamp but it would be a massive logistical challenge. Build a road through low desert sand? Maybe modern era but no way back then, trails would evaporate over night. Take a horse through one? Not happening go get a camel.

 

I would love to see terrain create interesting strategic opportunities and allow you to make interesting decisions. Would love to see Jungle and arctic (which is in the xml just not turned on) and many other terrain types, hopefully we will. But mountain fences? Ugh. I can just see the fellowship getting to the misty mountains and going "ah crap we gotta go all the way around"!

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October 17, 2012 10:58:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This will be a nice feature. I might direct your attention to the possibility of making stamps if maps are your passion. It would be great to also have a large library of really well thought out stamps.

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October 18, 2012 2:22:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
This will be a nice feature. I might direct your attention to the possibility of making stamps if maps are your passion. It would be great to also have a large library of really well thought out stamps.

 

The whole reason i wasn't really doing any modding was because of the lack of tools, really wish we would have had them in the beta. I will absolutly be making stamps.

 

Oh any feedback on how the game plays with the different GEM and size settings is appreciated.

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October 18, 2012 11:33:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jam3,

It looks ok til you zoom in, and that was just from that one example.

 

The idea of mountains as impassable terrain is almost laughable to me, always has been in any game that makes them impassable. A simple look at a map or a read of military history will tell you that mountains are both lived in and even on as well as passed over/around/through by armies stretching back to the classical period. Maybe if you wanted to classify passability of mountains by size and allow for a few Himilaya type impassable ranges thats fine.

 

I have a bigger problem with them allowing roads through swamps and deserts to be honest. Granted desert should be classified into high and low desert and high desert might be more passable, but the idea building a road in a medieval period fantasy game through a swamp or low desert environment is nutty let alone taking an army through one.  Has anyone ever been in a real swamp? There is a real chance of a gator eating you and your chance of disease goes up pretty much by the minute you spend wading through it, if you can even wade through it if its shallow enough and the bottom solid enough for you not to sink into, taking a horse into one equals a dead horse. Building a road through one? Thats even crazy in the modern world a swamp is essentially the top of a lake sitting in highly permeable earth.

 

And desert, anyone ever been to death valley a classic low altitude desert environment? How long could you live there, I would count it by hours not days, moving an army might be easier through a desert than a swamp but it would be a massive logistical challenge. Build a road through low desert sand? Maybe modern era but no way back then, trails would evaporate over night. Take a horse through one? Not happening go get a camel.

 

I would love to see terrain create interesting strategic opportunities and allow you to make interesting decisions. Would love to see Jungle and arctic (which is in the xml just not turned on) and many other terrain types, hopefully we will. But mountain fences? Ugh. I can just see the fellowship getting to the misty mountains and going "ah crap we gotta go all the way around"!

 

I agree with you on all accounts (I grew up in the swamp). I wonder if it is possible to make a mountaineering trait that would allow certain units to retain their movement in the mountains.

 

I did a search for "roads" in the XML files last night and turned up tens of thousands of results. I'll try to refine the search and look again. I want to look into making it impossible to build roads on certain terrain, just like you suggest.

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October 18, 2012 4:12:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Not sure what histories you read, nor what 'mountains'.  'Men on the mountain' are hermits and tend to be ignored.  There's a reason mountain climbing is popular -- it is a dangerous adventure, an adrenaline rush.  Mountain passes -- low points in a mountain range that are the only readily surmountable point -- are renowned chokepoints in the history of conflicts.

Mountains are steep rises in the terrain, often including multiple cliffs -- a rize of tens if not hundreds of feet over a run of virtually zero; no tank nor large military force can magically ascend them.  Not down canyon walls, no gentle canoeing across rapids.  And then there's the thinness of air -- soldiers not specially designed and vehicles not specially engineered alike become anemic the higher you go.

Many settlers in the U.S. west struggled hard to cross the Great Plains, only to be overwhelmed by the Rockies, the Sierra Nevada (Donner party anyone?) and others.

Even today, with the most technologically advanced and among the best-and-hardest-trained troops in the world, our own U.S. military's efforts in Afghanistan were severely limited by the steep, mountainous terrain which limits the mobility of armored vehicles such as tanks and troop carriers.

Your statements dismissing mountains as a serious impediment to military and civil mobility and maneuvers is aghastly ignorant.

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October 18, 2012 4:59:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Chibiabos,
Not sure what histories you read, nor what 'mountains'.  'Men on the mountain' are hermits and tend to be ignored.  There's a reason mountain climbing is popular -- it is a dangerous adventure, an adrenaline rush.  Mountain passes -- low points in a mountain range that are the only readily surmountable point -- are renowned chokepoints in the history of conflicts.

Mountains are steep rises in the terrain, often including multiple cliffs -- a rize of tens if not hundreds of feet over a run of virtually zero; no tank nor large military force can magically ascend them.  Not down canyon walls, no gentle canoeing across rapids.  And then there's the thinness of air -- soldiers not specially designed and vehicles not specially engineered alike become anemic the higher you go.

Many settlers in the U.S. west struggled hard to cross the Great Plains, only to be overwhelmed by the Rockies, the Sierra Nevada (Donner party anyone?) and others.

Even today, with the most technologically advanced and among the best-and-hardest-trained troops in the world, our own U.S. military's efforts in Afghanistan were severely limited by the steep, mountainous terrain which limits the mobility of armored vehicles such as tanks and troop carriers.

Your statements dismissing mountains as a serious impediment to military and civil mobility and maneuvers is aghastly ignorant.

 

Hmm, I live in the mountains now, and I can't imagine them being impenetrable (except for extreme ranges like the Himalayas). Also, I remember reading about the Romans crossing mountain ranges regularly while trying to subdue the Iberian Peninsula. It was probably hard work, but people were doing it in the Bronze Age, I can't imagine they would have more difficulty in Medieval times (Which matches our fantasy setting a little better). I don't think it is terribly unrealistic to make them difficult to cross, but not impossible. 

 

Wasn't the Donner party tragedy just as much an issue with the season/weather as it was with terrain? 

 

Hah, I just read one of your other posts, I didn't realize you were trolling. Well played.

 

 

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October 19, 2012 6:00:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like the work being done here!! 

On the passable/impassable mountains question...

This is a game, not reality.  I happen to think that for gaming purposes mountains SHOULD be a barrier.  It creates strategic choke points and walls to force a fleeing opponent against.  It creates safe zones and, ironically, makes the map play larger rather than smaller by making adjacent zones farther apart. 

That having been said, there probably can and should occasionally be passes through the mountains that are slow and difficult to cross.  With the max speed of units being 2-3 turns per turn, I think you can only slow to 1 move per turn (unless there is a way to force an army to skip their next strategic turn).  This would nullify the additional speed of mounts.  What would also be cool (though I'm not sure if it's possible) would be to mod in some encounter in these passes that results in a 10% chance of losing a unit in the crossing.  Use the pass if you must and face the risk if you dare!!!

For myself, if mountains are made passable, I either won't use the mod or will mod it back to making mountains impassable.

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October 19, 2012 9:49:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I know what you mean about wanting the tools early. I want to start adding in my "Robust Cities Mod" that I never released for WoM. This time someone might play it!

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October 20, 2012 6:38:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

would this work alongside with Storm World rivers? I see both mods contain terraintypes.xml so they could definitely be incompatible :/

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October 22, 2012 3:54:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Aerion Istari,
This is a game, not reality.

Hear hear, a voice of sanity amidst a sea of lunatics. Imagine the cry being taken up of 'not enough realism' in a fantasy game!

A rabble of margin-dwellers scraping an existence from a hostile environment does not an army make.

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October 22, 2012 4:03:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting crimsongekko,
would this work alongside with Storm World rivers? I see both mods contain terraintypes.xml so they could definitely be incompatible :/

I think they work together. Stormworld modifies the installation directory file TerrainTypes.xml while this mod puts it in the /Mods/ directory. This mod can do that because it is modifying old terrains, Stormworld only adds new types.

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October 22, 2012 6:30:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

thanx! I'll give it a try

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October 23, 2012 5:15:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Installed this last night - big improvement on default. Better locations for cities etc. Of course this means that the enemy is also getting good starting locations too - should make for some titanic struggles.

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October 23, 2012 7:00:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

something I've noticed with a small Ecology mapscript with 3 opponents is that now you need to settle ASAP if you don't want the AI to beat you to it

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October 23, 2012 4:37:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

so will this work with 1.0 ?

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October 30, 2012 5:56:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Are you still working on the mapscript? It sounds great and I want to use it with 1.0!

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