Markon

Join Date 03/2008

Spell buff/debuff balance fix?

So, I've seen my fair share of comments about the balance in power on some buffs and de-buffs. I agree that some of them could use some adjustment, but what I think could work pretty well, if it's not too hard to implement, is having all de-buffs, and maybe even all buffs, wear off after several turns (well, maybe not so much with the buffs). Sure, they could be recast, but at least that forces the caster to waste another turn (more, if you resist). This would balance spells like slow and blindness much better, in my opinion. Thoughts?

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

It sounds like a straight up nerf. Also, I don't want to bring champions that do nothing but buff in a fight. That's not fun and not awesome.

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in my modded version blindness is like that, its totally nonsense the vanilla, i made it last 3 turns and its op anyway

haste slow are quite ok but im probably nerfing them too with a duration

tbh i think its far better to have support mages helping the team costantly with buffs/debuffs instead of the nobrainer buff all at start and gg

ofc your not forced to use such a champion, you can make it nuker or warrior or what you like

what is not acceptable is a full nuker/warrior bringing a strong (mostly op) buff that is totally equivalent to the mage one and lasting forever, that is a pure nonsense

also in the usual gameplay thats not even a wasted turn cause melees can do nothing first turn anyway

ofc the ideal solution should be something even more different, buffs should be much weaker if not casted by mages for example etc ( Sean did something with higher lvl buffs i think) or if i could mod the damn duration with calc i could mage mage ones last more etc etc

still i will never play a game where a non mage can cast the strongest buff in the game and stil be ths trongest tank/assassin/archer

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Heavenfall, it is a nerf. But on both sides. I've been slowed before by enemies AI, it hurts a lot if they have a few water shards. Even more annoying is when they blindness me. It wouldn't be such a short duration that your caster would have to cast them turn after turn after turn, just to keep a few guys buffed/nerfed. But of course it can't be such a long duration to be pointless, either. It's just a suggestion, but I think it would help balance both ways. (As in, make it harder for champions to be as OPed, but also help make sure one or two good enemy debuffs don't cripple a character (or multiple characters) of yours for an entire fight, no problem)

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Quoting Markon,

reply 3

(As in, make it harder for champions to be as OPed, but also help make sure one or two good enemy debuffs don't cripple a character (or multiple characters) of yours for an entire fight, no problem)

yes thats the main problem, blindness destroy any non mage and has no counter at all, but in general i agree with you its just more balanced

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I think that if we are going to nerf the duration of debuff spells, I would rather do it by making debuffs require a check against spell resistance to remain active on the afflicted unit. Why? Two reasons:

1. Intermediate values of spell resistance become more useful. Currently, I just want to have a high enough spell resistance to completely resist every spell thrown at me. If debuffs are required to pass a check against spell resistance every turn or be removed from the affected unit, intermediate values become more useful because average debuff lifetime will decrease with increasing spell resistance.

2. It also makes units with high spell resistance feel more powerful. Maybe I can get lucky and overcome the spell resistance to apply the debuff, but even if I do it isn't going to stay there very long on that Ashwake Dragon with 50+ spell resistance.

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dunno if its doable with the actual code a check each turn

also it seems overcomplicated

i mean its a chance

so you rather just calculate the duration at start

maybe it would be cool to have partial resist and full resist

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mqpiffle

Join Date 10/2010

+44

I think the balance needs to come from mana costs, not duration. Yes, debuffs can drive you crazy, but the problem is they are resistable, so they should generally cost less mana than buffs of equal power. Most of the death debuffs also have a casting time of 1. Blindness is unbalanced at the moment.

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yes blindness is not arguable its the first thing that i change when new patch comes, but i have a feeling others are a bit too strong too

the problem is the stacking as for other things

slow per se isnt strong

but for example i love playing proci as support summoner

ice elemental is incredibly op then too, if you get him to attack and stack with slow and chaos lucky proc the enemy is totally stuck

(btw in general i find it a good thing you can use such combos, i just feel some of them are a bit too strong and uncounterable)

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I personally am a fan of joeball123's idea for checking against resistance each turn. It might require a small tweaking to values for either mastery or resistance. Some small tweaks to costs might help as well, but I still think that buffs would be balance a bit better if they eventually wore off, or required a spell upkeep of sort after a while. I still think that's less important than making de-buffs wear off after a while, for most of the reasons I and other people have mentioned above already. This may be a kind of repetitive post, I'm tired, sorry. Main point; see first line.

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