[eLIB] New skeleton for dualwielding + eye effects

By on June 18, 2012 4:32:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008
+436

If you've attempted to add dualwielded weapons to the game you've come across an issue which this skeleton is intended to fix.

The issue is that when you add an item to hand_left_Lcf it looks off. And no wonder, because the hand_left_Lcf is intended for shields and bows.

In the below screenshot you'll see two weapons in the left hand, one using the normal hand_left_Lcf and one using the new hand_left_Lcf_special. The burning one is the new one:

 

The skeleton is downloadable here:  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32649007/K_Male_Skeleton_01.hkb (let me know if you find anything wrong with it)

Place it in your mods/Gfx/ anywhere you want. When the game loads, it will load this skeleton instead of the default one in the installation directory (effectively replacing it for all units that use the default skeleton which is every humanoid and some more).

In case the instructions weren't clear,when you are now creating a dualwield weapon you can change this

          <GameItemTypeModel>
          <ModelFile>gfx/hkb/Weapons/W_Axe_Burning_01.hkb</ModelFile>
          <Texture_All>gfx/hkb/Weapons/FE_Weapons_01.png</Texture_All>
          <Attachment>hand_left_Lcf</Attachment>

    </GameItemTypeModel>

to this

          <GameItemTypeModel>
          <ModelFile>gfx/hkb/Weapons/W_Axe_Burning_01.hkb</ModelFile>
          <Texture_All>gfx/hkb/Weapons/FE_Weapons_01.png</Texture_All>
          <Attachment>hand_left_Lcf_special</Attachment>

    </GameItemTypeModel>

 

eye effects see this http://forums.elementalgame.com/427129/get;3240052  

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June 18, 2012 6:36:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Nice! Looking forward to giving this a go!

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June 18, 2012 6:43:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is gold, wonder why there is no dual wielding in the original game ... Yet...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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June 18, 2012 7:29:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Beats me. Seems like a small thing to add. Maybe they don't feel it would add anything to the choices available. I don't know... I could see dual-wield being like two-handed weapons only less attack and an accuracy bonus instead (to represent "multiple attempts").

Actually it could just be the normal attack from say an axe, only you get accuracy and a little dodge as well.

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June 18, 2012 10:10:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
Beats me. Seems like a small thing to add. Maybe they don't feel it would add anything to the choices available. I don't know... I could see dual-wield being like two-handed weapons only less attack and an accuracy bonus instead (to represent "multiple attempts").

Actually it could just be the normal attack from say an axe, only you get accuracy and a little dodge as well.

I would say dual wielding would be faster attack (perhaps two attacks per turn or possibly three with some specialized attributes) but smaller damage.  Each attack is defended normally but the defense against the second attack would have some disadvantage - especially against a two handed weapon sword, axe or hammer.

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June 18, 2012 11:31:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm thinkin two fending blades = something like +10 dodge, +4 counterattacks, +8? initiative

 

two handed weapon bonus could be = +backswing, +1 counterattack, +5 dodge, +2 initiative? - this would sorta mimic more attacks per turn

 

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June 18, 2012 3:30:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Actually, I think dual-wielding would give a HUGE bonus to parrying!

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June 18, 2012 3:35:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That's what I'm suggesting! First, accuracy to simulate the extra hit chance. Then dodge to parry.

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June 18, 2012 4:12:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

First, accuracy to simulate the extra hit chance. Then dodge to parry.

Realism is not always a good guideline for improving gameplay, but in this particular case, both realism and balance are compromised.  If dual wield gives a better chance to hit and a better chance not to be hit, it has no disadvantages whatsoever, so it's not that great from a balance perspective.

From a realism point of view, dual wielding is only effective at a very specific point in military technology history, when heavy armor and shields are uncommon for some reason, for example:

Armor/shields falling out of favor because of gunpowder weapons.  (Renaissance Europe)

Heavy armor being a ticket to the bottom of the ocean (Golden age of piracy)

Metal being too rare for the development of heavy armor (Medieval Japan)

Without that, dual wielding an off-hand weapon is stupid.  It does not come close to the defensive quality of a shield, it is too light to be effective against armor, or to be able to parry the kind of weapon used when heavy armor is common.

The rapier is my favorite weapon, and I have demo'd dual wielding at cons and meets, but in the universe of FE it just doesn't belong on the battlefield, unless we get units attacking from concealment. 

And remember.  When heavy armor became practical, ALL swords were used two handed (and not only by the grip) whenever the warrior did not have a shield. 

 

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June 18, 2012 4:19:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If dual wield gives a better chance to hit and a better chance not to be hit, it has no disadvantages whatsoever, so it's not that great from a balance perspective.

Higher cost, the fact that you're not wearing a shield, and the fact that you're not dealing as heavy damage as you would with a 2-handed weapon (effectively, poor against heavy armor, good against light armor like you want later on in your post).

 

Personally I don't care one bit about realism. I'm sure it is very interesting to those interested in it. Me, I'm a high fantasy kind of guy.

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June 18, 2012 5:38:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Higher cost, the fact that you're not wearing a shield, and the fact that you're not dealing as heavy damage as you would with a 2-handed weapon (effectively, poor against heavy armor, good against light armor like you want later on in your post).

Oh, if you do not add the second weapon's damage to the main weapon damage, then it's much better balanced indeed.

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June 18, 2012 5:42:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am glad this wasn't too hard to add in, I wanted to put dual wielding in my mods.

I figure the best way to do it is to have special off-hand weapons that give unique bonuses. For example, a parrying-longsword could give +10 dodge, +1 counterattack, +2 initiative. Maybe add a double strike ability that does 50% extra damage, once per combat.

Not really sure how generalizable this will be, I was planning to just have a custom race with off-hand swords, so not too much creativity required. 

 

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June 18, 2012 5:52:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting UmbralAngel,
I am glad this wasn't too hard to add in, I wanted to put dual wielding in my mods.

It was incredibly hard.

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June 18, 2012 6:06:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sorry. Thanks for all the hard work. You were a little nonchalant about it so I figured it wasn't too much trouble. I was worried it would take months to add it in because such work is pretty complex and the modding community isn't that big.

 

I'm guessing we would still need an animation file to actually swing the offhand weapon in an attack animation. 

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June 18, 2012 6:23:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, but we can't actually add animations to the game unfortunately. At least, not for new weapontypes.

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June 18, 2012 6:56:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That sucks. Maybe after FE launches they can make a community wishlist dlc.

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June 23, 2012 12:37:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think I'm inclined to agree with Heaven.  I would think dual wielding would mostly be an assassin's trait. 

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September 30, 2012 10:16:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have updated the skeleton in the OP with two new LCF points called lcf_lefteye and lcf_righteye. The purpose is to be able to attach effects to a model's eyes.

 

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September 30, 2012 10:30:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great work Heavenfall. You add that extra something to this game that makes it excellent. I get happier with my purchase every day because of things like this.

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