Schob13

Join Date 05/2012

[0915][Bug] Haste & Initiative

Haste is calculated backwards in time as well as forwards. What I mean is when one casts haste with multiple air shards later in a longer tactical combat the unit that gats hasted has multiple turns in a row ( up to 4 so far with 5 air shards) after those 5 turns the usual combat order ensues again. And now the initiative of the unit in question was not high enough to allow that. Defenders in this case with 16 base initiative, while I had already hasted a champion with 24 initiative at the beginning of combat.

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changing initiative modifies the combat order, that's the purpose of initiative in this combat system, which seems to work very well, IMHO one of the great ideas of FE over WOM

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Yes, I know. But a unit with less initiative (after haste) moving three times before one with more initiative (my hasted champion) moves again is not just changing combat order it is the use of time that ahs already passed to build up the steam it needs to go again and again.

It is like you coming late to a board game and asking to join. Then you sit down and say:" Wow you are already far in the game, I will have to go 3 turns withoutany of you interfering because I came late." It does not just chage combat order after it was cast it tries to give you the turns you missed by not casting it in the first turn.

I hope that is clearer now but I have the frustrating feeling here that I am running out of vocabulary.

What I mean to say is:" Die AI verwendet beim Haste Zauber rückwirkend berechnete Initiativeboni." I doubt that helps many people here but I can only hope that my meaning is clear enough in the english part of my post.

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I understand what you mean. The game should only apply initiative changes onwards from the point slow or haste is cast, and not back in time.

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Exactly.

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ah, that might explain where those extra attacks come from. This does need to be fixed.

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The same issue seems to exist with the slow spell. If I cast slow on a unit after some time has passed in tactical combat the unit gets no more turns for quite a while until it resumes its turns at the reduced pace. I am not so sure with slow since it is harder to see but the evidence seems to point that way.

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Yes, slow/haste should not give less/more turns based on turns already taken. That is just counter-intuitive. It should only affect from the point in time the slowing/hasting spell is cast.

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Quoting StevenAus,

reply 7

Yes, slow/haste should not give less/more turns based on turns already taken. That is just counter-intuitive. It should only affect from the point in time the slowing/hasting spell is cast.

I don't get it, from the moment you cast a spell ALL the following turns are affected as they are "future" turns, the spell reorganises the order in which units will move or attack, it cannot change turns already taken as they are "past" turns (where are these already taken turns?)

as far as I can tell, slow and haste have a noticeable effect consistent with the initiative level of the units in play, even if it is sometimes limited

once I had five or six turns in a row, my sov had a 22 intitiative, the monster had only 6, lucky me, the wildland ice beast was pretty dangerous

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Quoting lhetre,

reply 8

Quoting StevenAus, reply 7Yes, slow/haste should not give less/more turns based on turns already taken. That is just counter-intuitive. It should only affect from the point in time the slowing/hasting spell is cast.

I don't get it, from the moment you cast a spell ALL the following turns are affected as they are "future" turns, the spell reorganises the order in which units will move or attack, it cannot change turns already taken as they are "past" turns (where are these already taken turns?)

what's happening is that the game is calculating the effect of haste as though it was cast on the unit as soon as combat started. it credits the hasted unit with turns that it "missed" before its initiative changed.

that might explain why slow/haste has such a jarring effect on the initiative UI element and makes the turn order seem unreliable.

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my mistake, I was thinking about a champion casting haste on itself

it seems still logical IMHO : you cast haste to allow your unit to move before the others, the spell works from the moment it's been cast, not from the moment the unit should move

but I haven't seen a unit going from a movement every few turns to five movements in a row, that's why the combat system seems quite robust to me

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Quoting lhetre,

reply 10

my mistake, I was thinking about a champion casting haste on itself

it seems still logical IMHO : you cast haste to allow your unit to move before the others, the spell works from the moment it's been cast, not from the moment the unit should move

but I haven't seen a unit going from a movement every few turns to five movements in a row, that's why the combat system seems quite robust to me

just to clarify, what's being discussed here is the effect of haste/slow being cast after many turns of battle.

if haste is cast on a unit (regardless of which unit) on turn 10, that unit is credited with all the moves it "missed" as though it had been cast on turn 0. the spell doesn't work from "the moment it's been cast" it works as though it was cast before the battle started.

We don't know exactly what method they are using to determine battle order, but it would appear that it doesn't take into account the possibility that initiative can change during the battle.

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