64 bit gaming finally takes off

from EA

By on May 21, 2012 2:31:21 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums External Link

Savyg

Join Date 09/2004
+12

Righteous.

 

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May 21, 2012 3:03:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, there are few of us who are still using a 32 bit OS, my desktop still is, and the main reason I haven't bothered to upgrade it is I haven't been forced to.  I will probably;y just get a new comp, as it's almost silly to by a new os for a comp that is over 4 years old.

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May 21, 2012 3:56:06 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
Well, there are few of us who are still using a 32 bit OS, my desktop still is, and the main reason I haven't bothered to upgrade it is I haven't been forced to.  I will probably;y just get a new comp, as it's almost silly to by a new os for a comp that is over 4 years old.

Skyrim uses LAA, Fallen Enchantress uses LAA (supposedly) and might have 64 bit DLC coming, so yeah it's about time to move up.  Sounds like The Secret World will use LAA too.  

I'd be surprised if there weren't many newer titles using it that I don't know about (pretty sure APB Reloaded does, not that anyone actually cares.)

Plus unless its XP I'm pretty sure you can get the 64 bit ver from MS in some manner.  Wouldn't know off the top of my head.

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May 21, 2012 5:08:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think I looked into it and it would cost almost, or more than $100 to upgrade.  But, when it comes to technology I am pretty ignorant.  I figured that I could just get a new computer, which I need, for $500 that would come with a new 64 bit OS.  I don't think putting a new OS in my old crap is worth it when I know I will need to replace the thing soon enough any way.  And as a government worker, I am poorly paid and thus cheap.

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May 21, 2012 5:25:32 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Right on.  I recommend Trinity (AMD A10) machines for cheap...they're not technically out yet but they just got the review batches out, I imagine it'll be next month systems will start popping up.

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May 21, 2012 6:11:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is incredibly important to the industry.

Not having access to more memory is very limiting these days.

For instance, for those of you who have read Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you know that the Fallen aren't just "big humans".  They are, effectively, a collection of fantasy archetypes.  The Ironeers are supposed to be dwarves.  

But we can't have lots of equally equippable body types because we can't fit it in memory. Obviously budget is a limiter as well but FE has, effectively, an unlimited budget. What we don't have is unlimited memory. 

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May 21, 2012 6:24:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
This is incredibly important to the industry.

Not having access to more memory is very limiting these days.

For instance, for those of you who have read Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you know that the Fallen aren't just "big humans".  They are, effectively, a collection of fantasy archetypes.  The Ironeers are supposed to be dwarves.  

But we can't have lots of equally equippable body types because we can't fit it in memory. Obviously budget is a limiter as well but FE has, effectively, an unlimited budget. What we don't have is unlimited memory. 

 

You don't know how much I wish you guys would just drop 32-bit... I would pay an extra $50 for a 64-bit fallen enchantress with that kind of content.

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May 21, 2012 6:43:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sarudak,

 

You don't know how much I wish you guys would just drop 32-bit... I would pay an extra $50 for a 64-bit fallen enchantress with that kind of content.
ditto, but I still have to support customers with 32 bit, so do need to have some machines with 32 bit, BUT my last four systems were ALL 64bit.

harpo

 

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May 21, 2012 7:22:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sarudak,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 5This is incredibly important to the industry.

Not having access to more memory is very limiting these days.

For instance, for those of you who have read Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you know that the Fallen aren't just "big humans".  They are, effectively, a collection of fantasy archetypes.  The Ironeers are supposed to be dwarves.  

But we can't have lots of equally equippable body types because we can't fit it in memory. Obviously budget is a limiter as well but FE has, effectively, an unlimited budget. What we don't have is unlimited memory. 

 

You don't know how much I wish you guys would just drop 32-bit... I would pay an extra $50 for a 64-bit fallen enchantress with that kind of content.

Give it time. We have games in development that are 64-bit only.  

Stepping back for a moment, I read a lot of forums so I've seen people say things like "Elemental was crippled because it was stuck with Wardell's lore" (as if all the races were men).

I look forward to the day when the Quendar and the Trogs and the Ironeers and the rest get the full treatment.

The good news is, FE is 64-bit aware.  It just depends when we cut the coord to 32 bit players.

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May 21, 2012 8:49:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

32 bits apps are fine in a virtual environment - in this day and age it should be strickly legacy for devs

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May 21, 2012 10:51:50 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Give it time. We have games in development that are 64-bit only.

I'm not the worlds biggest Stardock fan but I keep buyin' yer stuff, so there is that.  Glad to hear it  

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May 22, 2012 12:42:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Please cut the cord now.

 

I really wish you could have gone hog wild with hero customization- make it as unique as some of the modern 3d fighters.  That would probably require 64-bit.

 

 

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May 22, 2012 1:57:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think it's a bad business decision to cut the cord now, simply because you have 100 000 (I think?) people who get a free copy of FE for buying E:wom. If 40 000 of those are going to bad-mouth the game because they can't play it... you're done.

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May 22, 2012 2:56:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
This is incredibly important to the industry.

Not having access to more memory is very limiting these days.

For instance, for those of you who have read Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you know that the Fallen aren't just "big humans".  They are, effectively, a collection of fantasy archetypes.  The Ironeers are supposed to be dwarves.  

But we can't have lots of equally equippable body types because we can't fit it in memory. Obviously budget is a limiter as well but FE has, effectively, an unlimited budget. What we don't have is unlimited memory. 

Out of curiosity, how much do you consider this also a design issue rather than just a memory limitation issue?

Elemental uses stuff that takes up a lot of memory. I assume all the equipment is shown on the units, in the sense that a unit that is given a red cloak also shows a red cloak on the strategic map. Isn't that a huge drain on memory? Or is the main drain something else than the bodies & equipment?

Could dropping details on how units are presented on the strategic map enable you to concentrate more on adding the stuff that is now missing? How about dropping something else?

Sometimes less is more.

Edit: I'm glad to hear the fantasy archetypes are present in the lore. Hopefully they come more to the fore in the future. And regarding the memory drain, I've worked on design and implementation of mobile game platforms of three different companies, so optimization is a nemesis of mine. Getting a game to fit on 64kB of memory with limited ram and processing power requires you to squeeze your resources until you hear their muffled screams from your hard drive.. and I did feel the big decisions are made in the design. Implementation can squeeze you more bytes, but in the end the larger boundaries have already been set.

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May 22, 2012 2:35:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Brad, a year ago I'd have said don't leave 32 bit behind.  With only a very slight qualification now I think it's better to go for 64. In computer repair I am seeing the shift--most customers now are bringing in Vista and Win 7 machines and that's what I am hearing from other shops too.  This past year seemed to be "it".

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May 23, 2012 4:10:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Give it time. We have games in development that are 64-bit only.  

So Galactic Civilisations 3 is gona be 64-bit only.  

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May 23, 2012 4:59:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting igorCRO,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 8
Give it time. We have games in development that are 64-bit only.  


So Galactic Civilisations 3 is gona be 64-bit only.  

 

Given this statement+ Jon's latest blog post where he announces a detail about a game he's working on, I think this is the case.  (It's either GCIII or a new IP, I think one of these is much more likely)

 

It's also 5 years from GC2 time coming up, which was the miminum time Brad set for a sequel to GC2.

 

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May 23, 2012 2:17:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Good to hear! The only game that I know of that's 64bit is Arma 3 if I remember right...  

GalCiv3 Please! 

Only one tiny problem I have heard is companies lobbing the console makers to have better hardware... Seriously Microsoft and Sony man up! 

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May 23, 2012 3:01:00 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

GalCiv 3 will probably feature Kinect capability, so if you don't like that guy staring at you from the diplomacy screen you really can tap and say 'Hello?  Is this Universal Translator on?  I must have missed the punchline because I would never agree to this.'

 

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May 23, 2012 8:46:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
This is incredibly important to the industry.

Not having access to more memory is very limiting these days.

For instance, for those of you who have read Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you know that the Fallen aren't just "big humans".  They are, effectively, a collection of fantasy archetypes.  The Ironeers are supposed to be dwarves.  

But we can't have lots of equally equippable body types because we can't fit it in memory. Obviously budget is a limiter as well but FE has, effectively, an unlimited budget. What we don't have is unlimited memory. 

 

So the Men look kinda the same and the Fallen look very similar as well because of RAM limitations!   I never thought that....I thought it was because you insisted on making an original world with original races.

 

If I have interpreted what you said correctly, then why didn't you ever say that when criticism of the sameness of the races first surfaced?

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May 24, 2012 1:05:09 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Campaigner,

So the Men look kinda the same and the Fallen look very similar as well because of RAM limitations!   I never thought that....I thought it was because you insisted on making an original world with original races.

If I have interpreted what you said correctly, then why didn't you ever say that when criticism of the sameness of the races first surfaced?

I would think they were busy with all the other complaints.

I was just playing Dragon's Dogma and thinking to myself 'man, this would make an awesome 64 bit game' cause of its sidekick system.  (You make your own, and hire two others from a global pool of user created ones.  It's pretty cool.  Ones you haven't hired show up in the actual game world at cities as well as in 'the rift.')

This is so awesome I don't think I'm even going to care about anything else announced for months now.

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May 25, 2012 1:00:11 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Vallu751,

Out of curiosity, how much do you consider this also a design issue rather than just a memory limitation issue?

Elemental uses stuff that takes up a lot of memory. I assume all the equipment is shown on the units, in the sense that a unit that is given a red cloak also shows a red cloak on the strategic map. Isn't that a huge drain on memory? Or is the main drain something else than the bodies & equipment?

Could dropping details on how units are presented on the strategic map enable you to concentrate more on adding the stuff that is now missing? How about dropping something else?

Sometimes less is more.

Didn't know how to respond to this at the time but here goes something.

Less is more might make sense from a gameplay perspective, but from a technology perspective it makes none at all.  I don't think any developer is happy about being hamstrung by the same restrictions they were struggling under five years ago, when the technology is readily available and already in most gamers hands.

Could their design be less ambitious?  Of course.  But if it was, would they want to play it?  Who would want to create a game they don't want to play?

I'm sure I could continue, but I assume you get the point.

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May 25, 2012 2:45:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Savyg,
Could their design be less ambitious?  Of course.  But if it was, would they want to play it?  Who would want to create a game they don't want to play?

I'm sure I could continue, but I assume you get the point.

Yeah, it's a valid point. I guess my point revolves around the "bang per buck" principle. Which is more valuable to the player? Nice looking trinkets on the strategy map, or visually distinct races.

I want to play a game with maximum value to the player, not the one with the most ambition.

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May 25, 2012 5:08:01 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

So you're advocating they put in less stuff to give you more value?

I really can't parse this.  Perhaps I should go to sleep instead.

Mass Effect 3 multi til 4 in the morning is awesome. 

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May 25, 2012 9:16:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Savyg, this is what started this:

"But we can't have lots of equally equippable body types because we can't fit it in memory"

Are you on track now?

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May 25, 2012 1:01:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

You know what else we can't have?

Gigantic maps.  Minor factions.  More impressive late game cities.  More random events.  More creatures.

It is not just one thing we can't have because of 32 bit limitations.

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