[0.913] Played 10 turns and am not happy already

By kilijan on May 4, 2012 12:05:19 AM from

kilijan

Join Date 02/2008

Just installed the new beta build and got irked so badly that i'm here on the forums and the game is off within the first 10 turns no less.

I just started a new game and on a medium map Verga started no less than 10 squares away from me. Thats not the problem per se, however I proceeded to watch him B-Line and beat me to 4 goodie boxes and kill one of my possible recruits right in front of me. He even split up his 2nd general/companion to take a 5th goodie box from me. To make matters even better, he killed 2 monster dens before I could even walk there.

Exploration is only fun when the AI isn't killing and grabbing everything. Whomever thought it would be a good idea to compete with the AI for the same goodie boxes got it wrong. Every player needs their own goodie boxes in my opinion. How will I recruit any champions later if the AI is going around whacking all of them? This isn't a good feature.

In my previous games i've gone around collecting all the goodie boxes I could from what would be my territory. Going around grabbing the low level goodie boxes is a phase of the game that I enjoyed. It only comes in the beginning of hte game then its gone. Now I see it will be largely removed from my gameplay experience. I have no problem with the AI getting goodie boxes also, however I think each player eneds to have their own set of them that only they can get. Kind of like the quests..

On the same note I enjoy going around clearing monster dens as well. Its an important part of building my characters up. You're removing a huge part of the game for players simply because the AI is trying to imitate the path a human player follows. Perhaps monster dens respawn now, i'm not sure. If that is the case then i'll have things to do all the time i'm not at war with another faction. However if that isnt' the case it again isn't a good feature.

Perhaps i'm over reacting but I saw all of this and for the first time said, "Forget this crap." and turned off the game. A pretty strong reaction to these new changes.

I can't wait to try this out!

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I think this sounds promising! I'm not sure why you are complaining, this is what we've wanted all along. I think the only unfortunate bit is that you started so close, but dems da breaks sometimes.

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How many factions were you playing with on Medium? I find it does this when you have too many factions. It sounds absolutely awesome though. I like a bit of competition.

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Some people like the AI to play the same game as the player, and follow the same rules. Other players simply want the AI to provide a challenge while pressuring the player in very specific ways.

FE is geared towards the first kind of style, so I don't expect the devs to make the changes you are requesting. However, I think that reducing the number of players or increasing the land size is probably a good idea. Maybe there should be larger minimum distance between starting players, but overall I think this is just bad luck and you should start a new game.

With randomly generated worlds, you can't expect every game to be as fun as the next. Don't feel bad about restarting until you get something that looks promising.

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Yes, I think there should be respawn goodies and moster, same for quest, key is we should create and make our own map, but they didn't upgade to allow us to create map, I don't know why, I feel so long time.

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The best function would be to allow a tech or quest to spawn new goodie huts and quests. That is how it was in WoM. It is nice because it saves space and RAM when you don't have all that good stuff on the map on turn 1.

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Come to think, a.i is still not same as player, first of all, monster didn't attack their outpost, or resouce building, how do i know? there is a.i outpost near my main city, and had earth shire under them, till my city control zone taken over and monster alreadly on resource building before my city zone of control taken over, when I taken over control I got a screen monster raze my building but a building I don't build but a.i, so all the along monster didn't attack or raze a.i kingdom or empire's resource buidling, same for outpost too, monster only attack my city and outpost but never a.i, though monster do attack a.i kingdom and empire but only unit, not outpost or city as far I know.

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Quoting seanw3,

reply 3

How many factions were you playing with on Medium? I find it does this when you have too many factions. It sounds absolutely awesome though. I like a bit of competition.

The problem, though, is that heroes and monsters are pathetically outgunned. That's not fun - they shouldn't be "goodies" waiting to be harvested, they should be threats or guardians.

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The is a balance issue with goodie huts. I normally get things like a leather cap, which seems like a nothing item until you realize that cap would cost 3 years of my income to buy in the shop.

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quoting post

Whomever thought it would be a good idea to compete with the AI for the same goodie boxes got it wrong. Every player needs their own goodie boxes in my opinion. How will I recruit any champions later if the AI is going around whacking all of them? This isn't a good feature.

I disagree.

I disagree. I personally want to play against an AI that is motivated to try and defeat me.

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We need another game setting in addition to difficulty and monster density. We need one called Monster toughness that would change the stats and types of monsters ingame. I want the game to be VERY difficult to survive, while others enjoy casual levelling.

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quoting post

Just installed the new beta build and got irked so badly that i'm here on the forums and the game is off within the first 10 turns no less.

I just started a new game and on a medium map Verga started no less than 10 squares away from me. Thats not the problem per se, however I proceeded to watch him B-Line and beat me to 4 goodie boxes and kill one of my possible recruits right in front of me. He even split up his 2nd general/companion to take a 5th goodie box from me. To make matters even better, he killed 2 monster dens before I could even walk there.

Exploration is only fun when the AI isn't killing and grabbing everything. Whomever thought it would be a good idea to compete with the AI for the same goodie boxes got it wrong. Every player needs their own goodie boxes in my opinion. How will I recruit any champions later if the AI is going around whacking all of them? This isn't a good feature.

In my previous games i've gone around collecting all the goodie boxes I could from what would be my territory. Going around grabbing the low level goodie boxes is a phase of the game that I enjoyed. It only comes in the beginning of hte game then its gone. Now I see it will be largely removed from my gameplay experience. I have no problem with the AI getting goodie boxes also, however I think each player eneds to have their own set of them that only they can get. Kind of like the quests..

On the same note I enjoy going around clearing monster dens as well. Its an important part of building my characters up. You're removing a huge part of the game for players simply because the AI is trying to imitate the path a human player follows. Perhaps monster dens respawn now, i'm not sure. If that is the case then i'll have things to do all the time i'm not at war with another faction. However if that isnt' the case it again isn't a good feature.

Perhaps i'm over reacting but I saw all of this and for the first time said, "Forget this crap." and turned off the game. A pretty strong reaction to these new changes.

This sounds like the AI is still bad to me.. after all, if Verga had all those goodie huts he should have been able to knock you off. Why didn't he take out your city too?

Crappy AI...

In all seriousness, this is what I saw in my game too. But I thoroughly enjoyed it. I killed a camp of bandits, but had no movement left to grab the goodie. Irane came through and stole my loot. So I began cultivating a long, long grudge to eventually wipe out her cities. Good times.

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I have not played the new build yet but I am liking what I'm reading so far.

OP what you describe in you game sounds great to me. I want the AI to do this. Creates a challange that the game never had before.

What setting were you playing on? If not Easy then I suggest playing the game on easy level and see if that tones down the aggressive AI for you.

Can't wait to play tonight. I will start a game on Normal and start another on Challaging and compare. I really hope the AI kicks my butt on both.

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There is always going to be a certain amount of randomness in randomly generated maps, and thus sometimes you will get a game that is towards the bad end of the scale. Adjust the settings and restart.

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You know, I couldn't figure out whether the OP was joking or not about the AI in the 0.913 build. It sounds like it is behaving the way everybody wants it too. In my opinion the ultimate AI would be one that is indistinguishable from a 'real' player. If the AI is grabbing all the goodie huts and killing rival champions....that my friend, is exactly what a real opponent would be doing in order to beat you.

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Not everbody wants it.

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We've all been asking for the Monsters & AI players to give us a challenge.

I think Derek & Brad have delivered.

The game really made me think for the 1st time.

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Kilijan, I am sorry the community lacks any kind of empathy for your situation, as for new players (or any kind of players) starting next to ANY player is a pain in the ass, this will happen in civilization 5 with the goodie huts there (I usually turn them off in civ 5). Also 2 players competing for the same room, for the first city expansion becomes a pain, next time you try a game, try putting less players on the map.

It is really unfortunate that you have had such an unfortunate start, I suggest you build quick militia in these situations and run a siege on his home city, GIVE HIM WAR for what he does to you!

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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The A.I. should scale behaviour in terms of difficulty. What difficulty were you at ? I would hope, the harder the difficulty the more aggressive the A.I. behaviour should be so a low setting should solve the problem. Remember you can customize your A.I. opponents!!

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Remember - "Ctrl N" resets your starting position without going back to the main menu.

There is no shame in looking for an optimal start position. That's exactly what you would do if you could take the time to wander the world before picking a place to settle.

You'd better pick a good place to start now, because the world is truly out to get you.

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Quoting Humility,

reply 7

See - that's crap. Either the AI plays the same game or it doesn't. It can't have it both ways.

I don't have a problem with the AI factions grabbing goody huts; but then the AI monsters better damn well treat those factions the same way they treat me.

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On .86 I was playing tiny maps with 32 players, so this sounds awesome to me. It's fun because there is only room for ~10 cities total, the other 22 sovereigns are "free agents" who you have to hunt down and kill. It would be sweet if they were all leveled and geared up.

Now is the time of the quickening...

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The only real problem I hear here is "Other factions start too close".

I love what I'm hearing about the AI making better decisions. I agree that other factions start too close frequently.

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Quoting Stuie_,

reply 21

Quoting Humility,
reply 7

Come to think, a.i is still not same as player, first of all, monster didn't attack their outpost, or resouce building, how do i know? there is a.i outpost near my main city, and had earth shire under them, till my city control zone taken over and monster alreadly on resource building before my city zone of control taken over, when I taken over control I got a screen monster raze my building but a building I don't build but a.i, so all the along monster didn't attack or raze a.i kingdom or empire's resource buidling, same for outpost too, monster only attack my city and outpost but never a.i, though monster do attack a.i kingdom and empire but only unit, not outpost or city as far I know.

See - that's crap. Either the AI plays the same game or it doesn't. It can't have it both ways.

I don't have a problem with the AI factions grabbing goody huts; but then the AI monsters better damn well treat those factions the same way they treat me.

I'm sorry, but that is truth, I saw it, but this is for .912 verson, not .913, I don't know about .913 if monster attack a.i nation city or outpost or thier resource.

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It seems that the monsters will attack the AI, just not as often. This will probably be toned down once the AI is good enough to play like we humans do.

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