Beta 3 Status Update

By on April 12, 2012 2:44:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Derek Paxton

Join Date 03/2003
+173

 

 

  Beta 3 has been pushed to next week.  Sorry for the delay but we want to make sure it is what we want before we release it.

 

  So lets talk a little about what it will include.

 

1. Monster rebalance.  Monsters have been given strengths and weaknesses.  There are a lot more vulnerabilites to various damage types, and monsters have a wider range of attack types.

2. Weapon rebalance.  Weapons gain new abilities, armor is more effective against specific types of attacks (chainmail is better against cutting weapons, plate mail is better against blunt).  Swords have counterattack, all axes have backswing, spears protect from counterattack.  All units that don't use their action automatically defend (you can see it in the screenshot below), much as shields used to do.  This means that the first attack isn't such a big deal (since moving into the range of your enemy but not attacking means you are defending and will take significantly less damage form their attack).  Items (shields), unit design and level up traits can influence how much of a defense bonus a unit gets when defending.

3. More Spells.  Candlecloak, Cull the Weak, Fracture, Gift of Iron, Flame Wave, Tidal Wave and many more.  If you haven't seen our latest Dev Journal video, check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ArdQVqLHsI&feature=youtu.be

4. Go Big.  Spells do bigger things, curse doesnt reduce defense and spell resistance by a few points anymore, it removes all the victims Defense for 3 turns.  More spells have a casting time and a larger effect (and the AI is very good at counterspelling so you may want to knock out enemy shamans and mages before starting your big spells).  Summons can be placed anywhere in battle so feel free to drop that fire elemental right behind the enemy archers.

5. Or Go Home. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution have been removed from the game.  These were primary stats that effected other things.  rather than doing that we will adjust the other things directly.  There is still a trait called Strength which increases a unit weight capacity.  There are traits that increase a units attack.  But they don't have to given together as was happening with the old Strength stat model.  Now your warrior types can grab the Strength trait so they can wear the heavy armor and weapons and your archer types can concentrate on the traist that increase attack, critical strikes, etc.  Path of the Assassin doesn't offer any additional weight capacity, but does offer attack bonuses, meaning you can do lots of damage but you probably won't ever be wearing plate mail with that champion.

6. More understanable stats.  Accuracy it a flat chance to hit an enemy (Accuracy 80 means you have an 80% chance to hit an enemy).  Some units have a Dodge that subtracts form this (So someone with Accuracy 80 trying to hit someone with Dodge 20 would have a 60% chance to do so).  This way players can clearly understand exactly what bonuses do.  A trait that gives you +10 to Accuracy means your will hit 10% more often.  That is easier to weigh against a trait that allows you to cast Fireball or gives you +25% to Experience.  Spell Mastery and Spell Resistance have gone through the same change, they are flat percentages to have your spells take effect.

7. Faction Differentiation.  This is where we have been spending the bulk of our time.  As Magnar has their wageless slave legions and the ability to add population from defeated enemies Gilden can create designable Iron Golems if they have enough mana and metal.  Though they aren't the best on attack (stay tuned for a post-beta 3 Trog patch to see what that looks like) they are the games best trainable defenders and they take a lot of damage before they fall.

Not all the factions are done, we are concentrating on Magnar and Gilden.  But you will find plenty to do with the other factions.  Tarth ignores terrain penalties (they move normally through forests, swamps, hills and rivers), receive a bonus when in small armies and get all new bows with higher attack and no metal requirements.  They also get Masterwork Chainmail armor instead of Plate Mail armor at Heavy armor, which is lighter and quicker to produce and better against cutting attack, but isn't generally as good defensively as Plate Mail.

Krax gets one handed versions of all the spears in the game, allowing them keep their shields.  They also get a Round Shield replacement called the Bronze Shield which gives them an additional bonus versus ranged attacks and they have inherited Tarth's old ability to get +10 defnese when under 50% of their hit points.  They retain their +10% per city level bonus to Accuracy, Attack and Defense when defneding cities.  Finally Karavox gains the Silver Tongue ability, the ability to spend influence in tactical combat to flip trained units to his side.

8. Some other things, "went home", there are less techs in Beta 3.  In general the tech tree is a little thinner than it was before meaning all goodies aren't spread out as much as they were.  We really want to make sure you are laboring over what tech to research next.  I made some mistakes on tech placement when I put research boosting techs late in the tree when they aren't needed, and I had food boosting tech early in the tree, when they also werent needed.  Now education is a 1st tier tech and definitly worth considering vs standing army (spears and wood shields) and civics (the ability to gold rush).

9. More diplomacy options.  Whenever you learn a tech you gain knowledge in that category (Civilization, Magic or Warfare).  You can trade this knowledge with other players and it is applied randomly to a tech in that category you could learn.  If you have 100 Magic Knowledge (because you have been researching a bunch of magic techs) you can trade that to another player and he will get 100 research applied to one of his magic techs.  Once you trade that knowledge away it is in the world and you can't trade it to other players (ie: it's gone).  We didn't want straight tech trading but this was a good to represent the ability to share knowledge.

You can also demand tribute from other players and they may demand tribute to you.  Or you can offer tribute to an AI player that you want to stay on the good side of.  If you are powerful enough you can demand that an enemy sovereign surrender to you.  If this happens their empire is removed, just like they were defeated but you gain that sovereign as a champion under your control.

10. Better memory consumption (my 500 turn game on a large map last night was only using 1.3 Gb), better performance (Brad is working magic with multiple threads), better AI (we are changing the default difficulty to Easy, the AI is getting to good).

11. Tons of bug fixes, improvements, polish and tweaking.  We replaced a lot of the spell icons to make them more clear and distinct, you can see new trees in the picture below.  Lots of new traits for your champions to learn.

 

Locked Post 182 Replies +1
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 14, 2012 1:18:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

5. Or Go Home. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution have been removed from the game.  These were primary stats that effected other things.  rather than doing that we will adjust the other things directly.  There is still a trait called Strength which increases a unit weight capacity.  There are traits that increase a units attack.  But they don't have to given together as was happening with the old Strength stat model.  Now your warrior types can grab the Strength trait so they can wear the heavy armor and weapons and your archer types can concentrate on the traist that increase attack, critical strikes, etc.  Path of the Assassin doesn't offer any additional weight capacity, but does offer attack bonuses, meaning you can do lots of damage but you probably won't ever be wearing plate mail with that champion.

 

Take two people.  One of them likes number-crunching, and loves to have those numbers about character stats, resistances, weapons vs armor, etc.  The other doesn't care for them, and would just as soon be told that a given character is "strong" in magic, or a weapon glows more than another, and gives off an aura of hating a particular monster, etc.

 

What I don't understand, and I mean this honestly, is why both types of people can't be accommodated here with a check box available before starting a game that lets you show the stats?  Left unchecked, no stats.  That way, my wife won't wonder how one starting character's magic rating compares to another, or who is the strongest, because she loves getting all that; and I'll stay happy without the stats visible, because I prefer focusing on immersive elements.

 

Otherwise, sounds great, Frogboy.  Keep doing the voodoo that you do so well.

 

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 14, 2012 1:18:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Is the beta early next week or late next week?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 14, 2012 2:43:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting TheProgress,
Is the beta early next week or late next week?

If I had to guess, maybe this thurday, I don't know, since last thurday, they said next week, so basic I guess this thurday, but it's guessing.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 14, 2012 4:31:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If Bethesda has something to teach to the industry at large, it's that full modding support is beneficial to everyone.

Ultimately, it's the reason I trust the general direction of the game and don't worry [too much] about details anymore, even when I don't like them. Modding will double the game's "magnitude". 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 7:36:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,
Or you can offer tribute to an AI player that you want to stay on the good side of.  If you are powerful enough you can demand that an enemy sovereign surrender to you.  If this happens their empire is removed, just like they were defeated but you gain that sovereign as a champion under your control.
There's something that needs to go home. Cities and their inhabitants don't just disappear because the king is defeated, and they especially don't because he surrenders. Transfer control properly, or don't include this stuff at all - cities that vanish by themselves is just silly, and not in a good way.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 9:29:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cruxador,

Or you can offer tribute to an AI player that you want to stay on the good side of.  If you are powerful enough you can demand that an enemy sovereign surrender to you.  If this happens their empire is removed, just like they were defeated but you gain that sovereign as a champion under your control.

quoting post
There's something that needs to go home. Cities and their inhabitants don't just disappear because the king is defeated, and they especially don't because he surrenders. Transfer control properly, or don't include this stuff at all - cities that vanish by themselves is just silly, and not in a good way.

I agree. That means that I'm going to have to try to take as many of their cities as possible before they surrender which makes it too gamey, IMO.

Another possible option is that when you demand they surrender, you gain the sovereign as a champion but instead of the empire being removed, its cities become neutral. There are many 4X games that use that mechanism and I think it works well. I particularly liked how Age of Wonders used neutrals in this way. They had their own AI and went about their business regardless of what the other empires did.

So, using this approach you'd basically make surrendered empires another "monster" type and let them rampage around the countryside and continue to build their cities (each could be a little city state) until the other empires dealt with them. This would add both deph and fun to the game and make it a bit more unpredictable and chaotic at the same time.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 10:37:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cruxador,

quoting postOr you can offer tribute to an AI player that you want to stay on the good side of.  If you are powerful enough you can demand that an enemy sovereign surrender to you.  If this happens their empire is removed, just like they were defeated but you gain that sovereign as a champion under your control.There's something that needs to go home. Cities and their inhabitants don't just disappear because the king is defeated, and they especially don't because he surrenders. Transfer control properly, or don't include this stuff at all - cities that vanish by themselves is just silly, and not in a good way.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an option that lets cities erected by your opponent XYZ go through a one-turn period of anarchy upon their leader's death, in which over half the buildings are destroyed, followed by their being reconstituted as independent city-states, building militia--the usual minors, who never expand.  That keeps the flavor of the original, provides some challenge, and doesn't suddenly break immersion with a "what became of all those people?" leader death.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 11:16:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Don't forget the ever retarded situation were an AI attacks you, takes a city or two, and then you defeat them and your cities disappear.

Neutral cities are an absolute must, maybe not in the next patch but before release. At the very least the cities of defeated players need to stick around and do nothing.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 12:39:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would guess that vanishing cities is one of those things that is on the list but not first on it. It is almost certainly going to be fixed at some point. The only time a faction should raze all cities is when a pure evil race decides to do so out of spite. That should only happen to one or two cities though, after the war is hopeless for them. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 3:04:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Perhaps knowing they're about to be slaughtered in the impending attack, cities simply become abandoned when an empire is collapsing.

Instead of vanishing them, maybe they should be burnt to the ground, leave ruins behind so to speak.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 3:31:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Mom didn't have this problem.

But Mom already had concept of neutral cities so it was simple. FE doesn't I think.. hence it easier for them to make it all vanish. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 3:33:14 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
quoting post
5. Or Go Home. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution have been removed from the game.  These were primary stats that effected other things.  rather than doing that we will adjust the other things directly.  There is still a trait called Strength which increases a unit weight capacity.  There are traits that increase a units attack.  But they don't have to given together as was happening with the old Strength stat model.  Now your warrior types can grab the Strength trait so they can wear the heavy armor and weapons and your archer types can concentrate on the traist that increase attack, critical strikes, etc.  Path of the Assassin doesn't offer any additional weight capacity, but does offer attack bonuses, meaning you can do lots of damage but you probably won't ever be wearing plate mail with that champion.

 

Take two people.  One of them likes number-crunching, and loves to have those numbers about character stats, resistances, weapons vs armor, etc.  The other doesn't care for them, and would just as soon be told that a given character is "strong" in magic, or a weapon glows more than another, and gives off an aura of hating a particular monster, etc.

 

What I don't understand, and I mean this honestly, is why both types of people can't be accommodated here with a check box available before starting a game that lets you show the stats?  Left unchecked, no stats.  That way, my wife won't wonder how one starting character's magic rating compares to another, or who is the strongest, because she loves getting all that; and I'll stay happy without the stats visible, because I prefer focusing on immersive elements.

 

Otherwise, sounds great, Frogboy.  Keep doing the voodoo that you do so well.

 

 

 
I am for this please make it optional.  Sorrry but I love stats also love big complex tech trees. Too me streamlining=simplification-dumbing down. sorry but just have to disagree with this route.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 3:35:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Since you'll still be in the process of differentiating some of the factions when we get Beta 3, how about we get regular faction differentiation updates regularly over the course of that beta segment (in a way that doesn't break saves).  It would be nice to receive updates more regularly, and would allow for more immediate feedback.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 3:47:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

W T F did I read? Doesn't seem like SOASE

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 4:28:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That's because it's for Fallen Enchantress, not SOASE.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 6:33:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting HOOVERDAM,

Quoting Glazunov1, reply 101quoting post
5. Or Go Home. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution have been removed from the game.  These were primary stats that effected other things.  rather than doing that we will adjust the other things directly.  There is still a trait called Strength which increases a unit weight capacity.  There are traits that increase a units attack.  But they don't have to given together as was happening with the old Strength stat model.  Now your warrior types can grab the Strength trait so they can wear the heavy armor and weapons and your archer types can concentrate on the traist that increase attack, critical strikes, etc.  Path of the Assassin doesn't offer any additional weight capacity, but does offer attack bonuses, meaning you can do lots of damage but you probably won't ever be wearing plate mail with that champion.

 

Take two people.  One of them likes number-crunching, and loves to have those numbers about character stats, resistances, weapons vs armor, etc.  The other doesn't care for them, and would just as soon be told that a given character is "strong" in magic, or a weapon glows more than another, and gives off an aura of hating a particular monster, etc.

 

What I don't understand, and I mean this honestly, is why both types of people can't be accommodated here with a check box available before starting a game that lets you show the stats?  Left unchecked, no stats.  That way, my wife won't wonder how one starting character's magic rating compares to another, or who is the strongest, because she loves getting all that; and I'll stay happy without the stats visible, because I prefer focusing on immersive elements.

 

Otherwise, sounds great, Frogboy.  Keep doing the voodoo that you do so well.

 

 

 I am for this please make it optional.  Sorrry but I love stats also love big complex tech trees. Too me streamlining=simplification-dumbing down. sorry but just have to disagree with this route.

 

Yes, please keep the stats that do nothing but feed into other stats so that I can have the illusion of choice..when in fact it makes the game less complex by grouping the stats that matter with stats that don't matter!!!!! So what im saying here is... I need you guys to make the game have more numbers in it.. so that i can feel intelligent.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 8:48:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BLANKFACEHOOKER,

Yes, please keep the stats that do nothing but feed into other stats so that I can have the illusion of choice..when in fact it makes the game less complex by grouping the stats that matter with stats that don't matter!!!!! So what im saying here is... I need you guys to make the game have more numbers in it.. so that i can feel intelligent.

Cant see if you are ironic... Can't understand why you won't try it out atleast, after that I will welcome critique about it with open arms, personally I do think Strength, Constitution and Intelligence, etc. is nice, but only when there is a point to having attributes, the last level up system had none.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 9:02:09 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kongdej,

Quoting BLANKFACEHOOKER, reply 116
Yes, please keep the stats that do nothing but feed into other stats so that I can have the illusion of choice..when in fact it makes the game less complex by grouping the stats that matter with stats that don't matter!!!!! So what im saying here is... I need you guys to make the game have more numbers in it.. so that i can feel intelligent.

Cant see if you are ironic... Can't understand why you won't try it out atleast, after that I will welcome critique about it with open arms, personally I do think Strength, Constitution and Intelligence, etc. is nice, but only when there is a point to having attributes, the last level up system had none.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

The system can work, after all RPGs have being using such systems together with level up abilities. But SD doesn't seem to know how to do it properly, so it ended up exactly as dis tractors have mentioned, pointless. Oh well, FE will survive without such stats... After all far better games like MoM and AoW didn't have them and still was great.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 15, 2012 10:32:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Skyrim did the same thing..and its a much better games for it. It's not like they are taking away the stats.. Just the useless ones.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 16, 2012 9:55:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BLANKFACEHOOKER,
Skyrim did the same thing..and its a much better games for it. It's not like they are taking away the stats.. Just the useless ones.

 

They're not taking away the stats.  They're only hiding them, as has been stated.  From my perspective, hiding the stats and providing a more immersive way of conveying the same thing is great in FE--raising stats per level in WoM is bland as could be--but my wife prefers the opposite.  Her gaming experience is enhanced by building charts explaining how something like strength might affect encumbrance or damage, etc.  Arguing that only one person's way of viewing the game is correct may be fun to you, since no one can look you in the eye and ask when you were made the Iron Gamer, but arguably there's no downside for Stardock in making stat viewing optional.  I won't use it.  You won't use it.  Those people who like it, will use it.  More power to them, and everybody has their own little sandbox in which to be happy.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 17, 2012 1:21:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,

          ...  arguably there's no downside for Stardock in    making stat viewing optional.    I won't use it.  You won't use it.  Those people who like it, will use it.  More power to them, and everybody has their own little sandbox in which to be happy.
 

I paraphrased you a little, above, Glazunov1;  BUT,  Completely Valid Point!;  and you expressed it (and illustrated it) well in your Replies, #101 and #120, above.  This really is one of those things that Stardock should be able to polish, and provide, if not soon, then by the time that they release their final retail version of FE.  It's clearly in Stardock's best interests, to make both audiences happy, and readily within their power.   

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 17, 2012 1:52:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

When Beta 3? Maybe Today?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 17, 2012 3:17:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I hunger for beta 3.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 17, 2012 3:18:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Azzazell- I wish but probably Thursday later in the afternoon.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 17, 2012 4:25:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,

Quoting BLANKFACEHOOKER, reply 119Skyrim did the same thing..and its a much better games for it. It's not like they are taking away the stats.. Just the useless ones.

 

They're not taking away the stats.  They're only hiding them, as has been stated.  From my perspective, hiding the stats and providing a more immersive way of conveying the same thing is great in FE--raising stats per level in WoM is bland as could be--but my wife prefers the opposite.  Her gaming experience is enhanced by building charts explaining how something like strength might affect encumbrance or damage, etc.  Arguing that only one person's way of viewing the game is correct may be fun to you, since no one can look you in the eye and ask when you were made the Iron Gamer, but arguably there's no downside for Stardock in making stat viewing optional.  I won't use it.  You won't use it.  Those people who like it, will use it.  More power to them, and everybody has their own little sandbox in which to be happy.

You misunderstood. They did remove them from the vanilla game. The stats and the mechanics behind them remain in the XML files for modders to use. However they have no bonuses/effects etc in the vanilla game, and are not used at all there.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108432  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000609   Page Render Time: