My Views on Steam haven't changed

The narrative

By on March 26, 2012 10:00:55 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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I was reading some articles that covered the Stardock 2012 report and in the comments section one thing that came up over and over was the allegation that I "badmouthed" Steam or Valve or what have you and that I "suddenly" liked Steam after we sold Impulse.

It's annoying when people try to fabricate a narrative that has no basis in reality.

As a reminder:

http://frogboy.joeuser.com/article/315154/Brads_Impulse_Launch_Review

"You would have to pry Steam out of my cold dead hands" -Brad Wardell, June 17, 2008 during the Impulse launch.

and

http://forums.stardock.com/375282

"Well first, I’m a fanboy of Valve because they are everything I admire – excellent. I don’t really see Impulse or Steam as an either/or thing. I use Steam. I don’t want Steam to be “beaten”. But I think as excellent as Steam is, there is a lot more to go and I do not like concentrations of power. " -Brad Wardell, February 2010

Running Impulse never meant we wanted Steam to fail.  The reasons we ultimately sold Impulse are well documented. But us liking Steam and Valve today isn't some recent conversion.  You can compete with something and think that something is good.  

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March 26, 2012 10:41:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Speaking of Steam. Will FE be available on OnLive? I could play FE on my crappy PC!

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March 27, 2012 12:15:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You know damn well facts and logic have no place in an internet discussion!

 

Besides, you probably just did some multi-threaded worm-holing time travel shenanigans to place those comments back in time!

 

And please, no one tell Captain O'Hagen I said "shenanigans", I don't wanna get pistol-whipped.

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March 27, 2012 12:29:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I didn't ever think you hated steam.  I think you choose not to have your exclusive games on steam to grow impulse.  That's about it.  And that makes good sense to me.   Once impulse was no longer a driver, I think it would be foolish not to put your games out of other outlets.  So, my conclusion is that I do not think you are a fool.  Thank you and good day. 

hehe - side note - swim around in the pool of money you received for impulse if criticism of this bothers you.  Smeh, Brad!  Can't always have your cake and eat it.

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March 27, 2012 1:36:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wow, factual inaccuracy in video game news! Call the presses! Oh wait.

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March 27, 2012 3:45:35 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Mr. Wardell, it's not as black and white you are trying to make it look like. Of course you said you love Valve, but you also said some other things you didn't quote in your posting above. A few examples:

 

"We started doing Impulse weekend sales where we mark things down 70 percent. All of a sudden, Steam starts having weekend sales."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23085

Steam didn't start doing 75% off deals until AFTER Impulse did the 75% discount on Space Rangers 2 on Impulse.

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/381719/page/3/#2612786

It wasn't true back then and it isn't true today and I gave you proof: http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/381719/page/8/#2614538

 

 

That’s the reality, I don’t want to be in the position [of being told] “Yeah, it’s free now, [but later] you have to put in this feature [if you want distribution] and make your customers subscribe to Steamworks Elite, which is $5 a month.” That’s the natural progression, but as long as there’s an alternative for publishers to Steamworks, Valve or whoever can’t ever go and say “Well, now you have to get a Steam Gold account.” I mean, look what Microsoft does now because of their monopoly on Xbox 360, you have to pay what, [almost] $10 a month for Xbox Live Gold.

http://firingsquad.com/games/elemental_war_of_magic_interview/page7.asp

You suggested without Impulse::Reactor Steam may require monthly payments from it's users. Of course this didn't happen, Valve even added more extra features for free.

 

 

That's becoming an increasing issue with publishers, who have been going to their developers and telling them they can't use SteamWorks, because if they do certain retailers or digital distributors won't carry the game. Call of Duty is the obvious exception, but other titles that have used SteamWorks have had some significant issues because they've been blocked from certain channels as a result.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/acting-on-impulse-interview

This also never happened. Quite the contrary, more and more games have been released featuring Steamworks and I can't recall a single publisher which used Steamworks before and then stopped using it since your statement. So where did this information come from? Did all the publishers change their minds or why didn't it happen?

 


Does this all count as badmouthing? Propably not, but it sounds a bit different from what you provided in your posting above.

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March 27, 2012 7:52:22 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

One word: competition.

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March 27, 2012 9:00:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Guest83,
Mr. Wardell, it's not as black and white you are trying to make it look like. Of course you said you love Valve, but you also said some other things you didn't quote in your posting above. A few examples:

 <snip>

Does this all count as badmouthing? Propably not, but it sounds a bit different from what you provided in your posting above.

Is there no service that you are a fan of generally, but take issue with any individual characteristic of that service?

It's not a binary thing.  You can like something quite a lot and still be critical of it at times.

 

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March 27, 2012 11:17:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,



It's not a binary thing.  You can like something quite a lot and still be critical of it at times.

 

 

Don't bring wisdom into this.  Everyone knows you either love something completely and stand by every aspect, or you hate everything about it and nothing about it is good.  They are only two options with everything.  And so clearly because Brad made minor criticisms of Steam, therefore he hates it,  but he also said some positive things, therefore he loves it.  So, in conclusion, there must be two Brads.  Transporter malfunction?  Evil goatee Brad from another dimension?  

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March 27, 2012 12:21:25 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@Kantok, Lord Xia


That's not what I said. Brad Wardell wonders why people think he changed his mind and provides two quotes of him saying nice things about Valve/Steam, while he was still in charge of Impulse. All I did was to quote some of his other statements from this time to point out why people think the way they do.

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March 27, 2012 12:24:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So bring FE in to Steam and add Steam Workshop for the mods = WIN!

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March 27, 2012 1:49:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting acare84,
So bring FE in to Steam and add Steam Workshop for the mods = WIN!

Let me check...

Steam Workshop

The Steam Workshop provides a way for players of Valve and Steamworks-enabled games to find and obtain user-created content; originally used for distribution of new items for Team Fortress 2, the Workshop was revamped in early 2012 to extend support for any game, including mods for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

Hmmmm Yeah, please! Add Steamworks to FE! 

 

GoG ftw.  

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March 27, 2012 1:54:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Wintersong,
Quoting acare84, reply 10So bring FE in to Steam and add Steam Workshop for the mods = WIN!

Let me check...

Steam Workshop
The Steam Workshop provides a way for players of Valve and Steamworks-enabled games to find and obtain user-created content; originally used for distribution of new items for Team Fortress 2, the Workshop was revamped in early 2012 to extend support for any game, including mods for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

Hmmmm Yeah, please! Add Steamworks to FE! 

 

GoG ftw.  

It is not late to add Steamworks to the game. It would be good for Stardock and boost the game's sales for sure.

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March 27, 2012 2:41:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
Don't bring wisdom into this.  Everyone knows you either love something completely and stand by every aspect, or you hate everything about it and nothing about it is good.  They are only two options with everything.  And so clearly because Brad made minor criticisms of Steam, therefore he hates it,  but he also said some positive things, therefore he loves it.  So, in conclusion, there must be two Brads.  Transporter malfunction?  Evil goatee Brad from another dimension?  

This made me LOL. Oh, wait... What about Draginol and Frogboy? Both = Brad... Guess we got our answer!

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April 5, 2012 8:58:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

There is an easy solution to the steam debate - just officially endorse the crack.  All steam games get cracked anyway, so people complaining about steam should thank the pirates for being the only people protecting our consumer rights.

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April 5, 2012 9:05:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'll "stfu" when I'm dead, not before.

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April 5, 2012 9:13:46 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Stardock / the dev team of sins sold out.   I understand why because of the ease of use and momentum steam has.  I'd feel a lot better if Frogboy/developers put pressure on steam to "unhook their game" from steam after a year.  Developers are just as much to blame here as well for being chicken and not making demands for fairness for their customers.

If you want to blame anyone, blame gamers for being like drug addicts.  Steam didn't get to where it was without gamers willingly handing over their money.  It's also more proof that the free market is fatally flawed because so many people just don't care/are stupid/uninformed/idiots and will sell out the rights of everyone else for convenience.

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April 5, 2012 9:45:23 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting niz032,
Stardock / the dev team of sins sold out.

[Citation needed]

Starclad went to Steam so they could use Steamworks to improve the online features in Rebellion.
ie. Cloud saving, integrated friends lists, etc.

Originally I believe they were going to use Impulse Reactor, but that fell through.

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April 5, 2012 10:12:38 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Starclad went to Steam so they could use Steamworks to improve the online features in Rebellion ie. Cloud saving, integrated friends lists, etc.

Originally I believe they were going to use Impulse Reactor, but that fell through.

That's what they tell you, but the real issue is that they don't want to spend the resources.  It's not that they don't have the money to spend, it's that it would eat into their profits.  Look games 10 years ago had dedicated servers, level editors and functional networking and stats.  Just load up Unreal tournament and see how far game developers have fallen.

There's nothing that's forcing stardock to not release a non-steam version and saying it would be a 'hassle' is a cop-out.  They should put out a gog.com version IMHO.  Releasing on steam does not have to mean thats the only version they have to release.

Stardock/sins are just being cheap like most game companies - giving you less for your money.  Many game developers are borderline bad at what they do anyway.  You can see this in all the bone-headed things many companies still do when they cut-corners.  Stardock and gas powered games don't exactly have a good history of being good at what they do.  Demigod and Elemental are a case in point.

The industry doesn't need to be defended, I have games from more then a decade ago with more features then modern games.

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April 5, 2012 10:32:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting niz032,

That's what they tell you, but the real issue is that they don't want to spend the resources.  It's not that they don't have the money to spend, it's that it would eat into their profits.  

That's a monster of an assumption on your part.  Regardless of how much money they have to spend on the game, that amount IS finite.  What planned features should they cut to satisfy the minuscule fraction that have a problem with Steamworks?  

Quoting niz032,

Look games 10 years ago had dedicated servers, level editors and functional networking and stats.  Just load up Unreal tournament and see how far game developers have fallen.

There's nothing that's forcing stardock to not release a non-steam version and saying it would be a 'hassle' is a cop-out.  They should put out a gog.com version IMHO.  Releasing on steam does not have to mean thats the only version they have to release.

Stardock/sins are just being cheap like most game companies - giving you less for your money.  Many game developers are borderline bad at what they do anyway.  You can see this in all the bone-headed things many companies still do when they cut-corners.  Stardock and gas powered games don't exactly have a good history of being good at what they do.  Demigod and Elemental are a case in point.

This just makes you sound like someone with an ax to grind.  As if, in the case of Elemental, giving away the sequel for free to those who were burned by WOM, plus, according to posts way back when giving a discount on the game after FE in the Elemental world aren't a pretty big mea culpa.  Oh, right, they're cheap like most game companies.  I forgot.  

Quoting niz032,


The industry doesn't need to be defended, I have games from more then a decade ago with more features then modern games.

It's amazing how it's always better "yesterday" than it is "today".  

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April 5, 2012 10:34:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,

Quoting Kantok, reply 7

Don't bring wisdom into this.  Everyone knows you either love something completely and stand by every aspect, or you hate everything about it and nothing about it is good.  They are only two options with everything.  And so clearly because Brad made minor criticisms of Steam, therefore he hates it,  but he also said some positive things, therefore he loves it.  So, in conclusion, there must be two Brads.  Transporter malfunction?  Evil goatee Brad from another dimension?  

I've always wanted an evil twin.  You think he'd share how he created his?

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April 5, 2012 1:18:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,
I've always wanted an evil twin.  You think he'd share how he created his?

You can know now- two blog accounts.

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April 21, 2012 4:05:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Guest83,

So where did this information come from?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/retail-threatens-steam-ban/06050

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