Massively different experience amounts

Death majic nixes exp

By on March 25, 2012 7:31:23 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Ensais

Join Date 05/2003
+4

Guys,

longtime lurker.

What do you think of the following:

I noticed that using death spells like "dirge" results in wayyy less exp.  Combined with how exp in general has been nerfed, I don't know if I like this or not.

On the one hand, getting only 1 exp for killing a "strong" group because you killed them with 2 spells kind of makes sense.  On the other, it greatly favors other sorts of majic... especially life majic buffs that help you get tough enough to kill that same group, and then get lots of exp to further better your sov and heroes.  If you used a death spell to weaken the enemy, it gives you less exp.  Same thing with "shrink"... I noticed with the mace (from Lady Sulla?....) that shrinks your foes you get almost no exp. from killing them.

I think the extreme is too extreme.  Magic SHOULD be that awesome, once you develop spells that let you steamroll an otherwise impossible foe... you should still get some decent exp for doing so.

 

Thoughts?

 

Locked Post 25 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 25, 2012 8:08:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think that exp should be constant, based only on the strength of the enemy at the beginning of the battle. Otherwise, it will encourage people to play in only one way to get optimum exp, which is basically an exploit.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 25, 2012 9:09:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I really believe this whole model should be changed.  The experience reward should be set by the challenge of the enemy group, and not varied by spells used, etc. 

In real life, we get experience from actions and practice.  As an idea, you could add some variable portion depending on how much an individual unit or character does in the battle.  This should be capped to prevent nonsense experience farming and dragging battles out.

Cheers,

Sword

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 25, 2012 10:10:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Are you absolutely sure spells were making the difference? I have not noticed this.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 25, 2012 11:50:33 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Sean-

yep, I am sure.  Fought the same battle 4 times.  First time, used "Dirg" spell with my 9 death shards, instakilled a "strong" party for 1 exp.  My sov had the 10% bonus... and still got 1 point.

Second battle, used the spell that reduces constitution, strength, etc.. just 1 time, ended up with 17 for the sov, 14 for everybody else (and 1 of my champs fell in battle).

Third time, used that spell twice.  Cleaned up.  1 exp. for everybody.

Last time, fought with no death spells.  Sov had 48, 2 champs bit the dust, the rest got 42 exp.

THAT is when I realized how much exp I was missing--no wonder I was having to wait until endgame just to get my sov--with the 10% feature--to level 9!

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 26, 2012 12:14:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If that is the case, I would report this as a bug.

Include your save games in the post if you can, and use screenies if you can.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 26, 2012 12:26:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There has been no indication that this would be anything but a bug. Magic users are not supposed to be penalized for using magic. Only having more heroes should do that under the current design. You should report it and offer up a saved game if you can.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 26, 2012 8:11:17 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I suppose... or just try on your own using the early "Wither" death spell a few times in a combat... and compare the tiny amount of experience to that of not using the spell...

or do the same thing with "shrink" life spell.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 29, 2012 4:38:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


@Ensais I think you are missing the point of beta testing. You are supposed to report bugs to the game designers for them to verify and fix, not have other persons of the community verify that information and twiddle their thumbs with it.

This was a good find, make a post (or transfer this one with a 'bug' title) to the FE Support forum so the devs can address it.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 29, 2012 4:47:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is why Life (Kingdom) is better then Death (Empire) (at the moment)

 

Life you Heal yourself but do not lower the stats of the enemy (but you do increase your own stats) and get max exp per fight

Death you use wither and other spells to make the enemy weaker, and get little exp.

 

I hope its a bug, the enemy should be worth X exp and you should get the same no matter how you kill them.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 29, 2012 5:14:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting CdrRogdan,

@Ensais I think you are missing the point of beta testing. You are supposed to report bugs to the game designers for them to verify and fix, not have other persons of the community verify that information and twiddle their thumbs with it.

This was a good find, make a post (or transfer this one with a 'bug' title) to the FE Support forum so the devs can address it.

They are not looking here? ... I think I missed something when joining this forum ...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 29, 2012 5:31:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think that Wither can reduce the amount of loot you get as a reward, and make lairs disapear so that they are no longer there to loot, after the battle, too.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 29, 2012 5:48:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ben_sphynx,
I think that Wither can reduce the amount of loot you get as a reward, and make lairs disapear so that they are no longer there to loot, after the battle, too.

 

Random loot from Mobs is based on exp, so less exp = less loot.

 

Also killing lairs from the strategic map with pillars of fire etc = no loot

 

So buffing yourself is greater then debuffing the mob

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 30, 2012 12:21:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

While I believe the developers are looking here in general, I believe they are looking much harder for anything that says [BUG] in the title.  I know I would be, if I were them.  (Not saying other posts aren't good too, but I think bugs are a priority).

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 30, 2012 11:18:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Are you sure the spells was what made the difference and not the number of surviving champions at the end of combat.  From your description it looks like losing champions resulted in more experience for the remaining units.  Using the nasty spells just prevented the loss of champions.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 30, 2012 7:14:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DexCisco,
Are you sure the spells was what made the difference and not the number of surviving champions at the end of combat.  From your description it looks like losing champions resulted in more experience for the remaining units.  Using the nasty spells just prevented the loss of champions.

This is not  the case (when i attempted)... I had to test out if losing my units on purpose would grant more experience (you can try making a save before a combat, and deliberately passing until the killed half ur units, then win, and test against just winning with full amount of units.

I have not seen decreased xp with wither tho.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 30, 2012 10:25:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What we need is a controlled test.  Three solo sovereigns, one a blaster wizard, one a debuffer and one straight up meleer perhaps, vs something like a spider.  

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 31, 2012 10:28:24 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

This reduction in exp. for debuffing opponents is not exactly a bug.  It may be a "feature", as in, part of playing with death spells is you kill stuff easier, but because it is easier you get less exp and loot by design.

 

Oh... and I realize this is a beta.  I am happy to comment on what I see.  As far as uploading and debugging... sorry, I have a budget for time I get to PLAY.  Real life AKA 60 hour work weeks, 185 mile commute, and full time grad school, children and a rather attention-heavy wife = I get to choose between playing and spending play time on uploading and debugging.  ... not happening.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 31, 2012 10:54:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ensais,
This reduction in exp. for debuffing opponents is not exactly a bug.  It may be a "feature", as in, part of playing with death spells is you kill stuff easier, but because it is easier you get less exp and loot by design.

 

Oh... and I realize this is a beta.  I am happy to comment on what I see.  As far as uploading and debugging... sorry, I have a budget for time I get to PLAY.  Real life AKA 60 hour work weeks, 185 mile commute, and full time grad school, children and a rather attention-heavy wife = I get to choose between playing and spending play time on uploading and debugging.  ... not happening.

I understand that, leave the silly testing to us cripples!

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 31, 2012 2:58:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If it is a feature, then it is one of those features that feels like a bug. When one uses up mana to kill things, and then get the feeling that you have been robbed of loot+experience as a result, well, it certainly feels like a bug.

 

That said, War of Magic did have a number of features aparently designed to make you feel cheated.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 31, 2012 2:59:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

From what I can tell, XP is based on the stats of the unit dying. So Wither may lower XP in that respect. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
March 31, 2012 3:25:36 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

So would dirge then--because it kills off constitution among other stats. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 3, 2012 3:12:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ah.

So the optimum strategy to level your units and get good loot is actually to BUFF your enemies!

Thanks, I see the light now

(Also definitely a bug IMO, the original poster should change the title to have [BUG] in the title)

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 3, 2012 5:25:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

But there is also the strange case of the ignys that barked in the night. When you select them, they are often listed as deadly even though they are not. They also give lots of exp, even though they have bad stats. This suggests that there is something more than stats.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 3, 2012 5:37:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It may be stats increase combat rating and combat rating determines XP. I know Ignys have some traits that make their combat rating go way up per unit. I bet frogboy is watching this thread from the shadows, laughing quietly at our ignorance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                            

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 12, 2012 11:13:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Frogboy, are u lurking...   if so, like my new Avatar? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108432  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000313   Page Render Time: