Got Beta 2? Please vote

By on February 25, 2012 1:19:05 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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If you’ve had a chance to play Beta 2, please take a second to go vote.

There's still months of work ahead of us but we're looking to see if we're on the right track.

Thanks!

http://www.elementalgame.com/journals

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February 27, 2012 4:00:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Croc007,
I really h*te the art style to be honest. Can you please hire someone who knows how to draw for god sake. A person who know how to draw animals and humans to begin with. I don't feel like playing the game when I look at the ugly art.

Thats just a matter of taste not a matter of skill. I really like the art style.

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February 27, 2012 4:22:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I voted "excellent"... because I can't stop playing.  The map generator is fabulous.  Great fun exploring, tactical combats are a must.  Resources are rare if you selected "sparse", so we all fight to get it.  Replay value is very high.

I would like to have a unique portrait for my Hero, so he won't look like a recruited champion.

The game will be better and better. (Imagine it with 2 expansions packs!)

And "Rebellion" is coming soon...  Which one to play? 

 

[e digicons]:karma:[/e]

 

 

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February 27, 2012 5:41:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Aharaza,
I want to vote excellent so bad. But whenever I load up the game it just does very little to me.
 
The factions all feel so much the same. Teching up in games is so boring that I do not want to play this game many more times then 4 or 5. The spells all have the general "meh" feeling.

 

Pls make the factions different. I don't want to choose between 8 humans with different starting techs.

1. I want to play a faction of: stormgiants, dwarves, necro-things, lizards, dragonoids, Insects-like-creatures, beastmen, trolls, ethereal dudes, elves, vampires etc.

 

2. Pls change the way tech is handled. I'm not sure how to improve on it but i've seen posts that handle tech. Listen to them. This way it's just a boring list of unending boring techs.

 

3. Spells. They all feel pretty unsatisfying. Maybe more animations and soundeffects could spice things up. But in all the whole execution of spells is not very good at the moment. It needs more varying things going on.

 

I voted poor. I don't want to bash you people for your work. But playing the FE: betas does not give me the feeling that it will be a fantastic 4x gaming experience. The main defect is the replayability, it don't feel it here.

  

It won't be nice if they finally start to listen to posts like this around beta 4 or something. I hope to be proven wrong but I'm seeing a pattern here. Can't do more races because of the 3d models? Fine, then be A LOT more daring with flavour and differentiation. Sure, we can play Civ with just humans, but we know about Chinese, Mongols, Greeks... it's enough to fill in with our imagination. In FE... who are these guys? They're just plain humans. Come again, they're interesting because...?

The tech tree is a spreadsheet with some linear mechanics and little meaning. People Get bored. No surprise. Cities play all the same with no interaction. People get bored. No surprise.

To be fair, I haven't played Beta 2, so I haven't voted. But I've seen nothing in the changelog about these issues.  

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February 27, 2012 6:21:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting mastroego,


  

It won't be nice if they finally start to listen to posts like this around beta 4 or something. I hope to be proven wrong but I'm seeing a pattern here. Can't do more races because of the 3d models? Fine, then be A LOT more daring with flavour and differentiation. Sure, we can play Civ with just humans, but we know about Chinese, Mongols, Greeks... it's enough to fill in with our imagination. In FE... who are these guys? They're just plain humans. Come again, they're interesting because...?

 

 

Brad acknowledged lack of faction/Champion differentiation as a problem in this very thread. I don't think it's fair to accuse them of not listening, as if they are unaware.

That said, from what Ive read, it sounds like it may very well be the most prominent concern of most of the community, even for the ones that are otherwise happy with the direction of the game. I hope they attach the proper weight to it.

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February 27, 2012 6:44:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Aharaza,
I want to vote excellent so bad. But whenever I load up the game it just does very little to me.

 
The factions all feel so much the same. Teching up in games is so boring that I do not want to play this game many more times then 4 or 5. The spells all have the general "meh" feeling.

I understand what you're saying. But ultimately, as a 4X game, it has a tech tree.  The tech tree in itself isn't supposed to be boring or interesting. Rather, it's supposed to be a tool that helps you plan our your strategy.

The problem with FE's tech tree, thus far, is that the tech tree is still too funnely. That is, no matter the map, no matter the conditions, you still go after the same few techs right off: Standing Army, Shard Harvesting, and a couple of others.  

What needs to happen is that the world conditions should force the player to adapt each game. That is, the player who tries to use the same tech pattern every game will suffer.

Unfortunately, the solution is non-trivial.  Right now, the factions are sufficiently similar that they're all "generalists".  And secondly, players can can be sufficiently effective without really controlling anything.  For example, I can wipe out the AI pretty well with just massive cheap spearmen and archers.    The AI has gotten pretty good at this too. But once you know "the trick" it's easy to roll over them. 

The fact that the player can be very effective without controlling anything special makes the tech tree less interesting, makes the game repetitive and puts too much pressure on the AI (And let's face it, a good human will always beat the AI in these kinds of games, the AI has to be more efficient but FE doesn't currently reward efficiency).

..

IF you needed specific resources to train those archers and spearmen and you didn't have those resoruces but instead had resources to train up mages and ice wraiths, THEN suddenly that tech tree is more interesting.

But frankly, I have a hard time coming up with the rationale of why it should require some special resource to give a guy a stick.

It's something Kael is very much aware of. But it's amazing how a "little thing" has such repricussions throughout the whole game experience.

My personal opinion is that the mundane stuff (things that don't require a special resource) should just be vastly wimpier than they currently are. Thus, you would then suddenly care an awful lot about having the political capital to recruit the Knights of Azok (not sure if they're in beta 2 or not) or be able to train Warlock Adepts or Summon a Dread Ithril.  But why bother in beta 2? I just crank out my cheese archers and my cheese spearmen and with a few champions roll over the world and insisting to my wife that this makes me a big man (she remains unconvinced).

 



Pls make the factions different. I don't want to choose between 8 humans with different starting techs.

1. I want to play a faction of: stormgiants, dwarves, necro-things, lizards, dragonoids, Insects-like-creatures, beastmen, trolls, ethereal dudes, elves, vampires etc.

This is something I have brought up too. But here's the thing: Do you WANT dwarves and lizards because you want to see different visuals? Or because you want races you relate to or because you want them to play differently? Don't say "all of the above" since that's a cop out.  But what specifically are you looking for?

The Empire of Yithril ARE elves. Even Tolkien hated using the term Elves. They were the Noldor and Sylvan. Elves are just what men called them.  The beings of Yithril are Quendar which are basically demon elves.  



 

3. Spells. They all feel pretty unsatisfying. Maybe more animations and soundeffects could spice things up. But in all the whole execution of spells is not very good at the moment. It needs more varying things going on.

I'm not sure how to respond to this.  It is a visual thing? The spells in FE are certainly as varied or more than your typical RPG let alone a fantasy strategy game.  I can only go by what MOM or HOMM or AOW does. FE's spells are easily as varied (We have a print out of MOM's spell list here which served as our source for a lot of spells). So maybe it's a visual thing.

 



I voted poor. I don't want to bash you people for your work. But playing the FE: betas does not give me the feeling that it will be a fantastic 4x gaming experience. The main defect is the replayability, it don't feel it here.

That's reasonable.  On the other hand, I hope you understand that our focus is going to be on the people who voted Fair or above.  Someone who thinks Beta 2 is "poor" is likely looking for something so different than what we are envisioning that there's not a lot of incentive to put resources to winning them over. 

 

 



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February 27, 2012 7:03:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Thus, you would then suddenly care an awful lot about having the political capital to recruit the Knights of Azok (not sure if they're in beta 2 or not) or be able to train Warlock Adepts or Summon a Dread Ithril.

I don't know what any of these things are....

 

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February 27, 2012 7:08:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DsRaider,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 105Thus, you would then suddenly care an awful lot about having the political capital to recruit the Knights of Azok (not sure if they're in beta 2 or not) or be able to train Warlock Adepts or Summon a Dread Ithril.

I don't know what any of these things are....

 

They're units in the game. In my game anyway. God knows what's in beta 2. That's like, 3 weeks ago.

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February 27, 2012 7:24:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
They're units in the game. In my game anyway. God knows what's in beta 2. That's like, 3 weeks ago.

Now you're just taunting us!

I voted Good, but it's still got a long way to go. Polishing, magic enhancements, UI work, bug fixes, and balancing. The core's there, but some components need some lovin' (or maybe hatin' in a good way).

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February 27, 2012 7:25:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Hm.  I can't pretend to speak for the masses but I want races/factions which PLAY differently.  I couldn't give two figs for what they look like.  (Yea, yea I know so much is driven by eye candy...)  And, although in the end it's irrelevant, I don't want stereotypes - dwarves, elves, orcs, etc. - because that will just cause artificial limitations on getting some interesting differences going in the factions.

Right now I know there are (some) differences but I don't feel it - meaning that they are all too trivial in most circumstances.

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February 27, 2012 7:32:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


They're units in the game. In my game anyway. God knows what's in beta 2. That's like, 3 weeks ago.

 

That's cold, man.

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February 27, 2012 7:56:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Brad, I hope that although you will listen to comments to glean good ideas and get a sense of where problems are, you will let Kael stick to his vision and make the game as he thinks it should be. I say this because E:WoM left me totally cold but FE has me in its grip so i think the man has a clue as to what he's doing. It's a thousand times better and more fun already than the previous game. Sure, there are some issues that need to be cleaned up and diplomacy needs serious work but overall its a blast to play already. Don't let the masses derail the vision with comments that half the masses wouldn't agree with anyway. If you do that you're chasing smoke.

For me the races are different enough visually where that's a total non issue. I think it would be enough differentiation to give each race a unique signature unit that the others don't have. You could extend this to a unique tech, a unique spell, a unique building for each race. That would differentiate each nicely and make for different play strategies for each. It might be too late for that now so consider it for the next expansion.

But even if you don't differentiate races any more than they are, I still think the game will still be a success as long as you don't take the fun elements out that have been added. Don't make it bland again for the sake of balance. Balance means nothing in single player. If one race is a little stronger then fine, it's a good race to play for those new to the game. One race a little weaker? That's great because then it's a challange to play for the experienced players. Some items and spells a little overpowered? Fine, those can be a blast if you're lucky enough to find or get one for that game. Look at MoM for your model. The key is to have enough diversity and content in items and quests where every game plays differently depending on what you're dealt. Part of the key to making it all fun is to have the AI use all those things when it finds them. That's kind of where you come in. God bless you in your holy work.   

P.S. I pray that the next patch will be a stability patch. 0.86 is really crashy right now.

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February 27, 2012 8:07:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

That's reasonable.  On the other hand, I hope you understand that our focus is going to be on the people who voted Fair or above.  Someone who thinks Beta 2 is "poor" is likely looking for something so different than what we are envisioning that there's not a lot of incentive to put resources to winning them over. 

 

I agreed with his post to a considerable degree, and I really like both Civ 4 and Fall from Heaven 2. If FE were a better FFH2, I'd be a happy customer.

 

If you look at it, FFH2 was a considerable improvement over even the regular Civ4. The civs were made both more disinct and more differentiated. You literally had to play differently. In FFH2, technology was not only a big question of strategic choice (do I get archers now and defend against the coming barbarians, or risk it and grow my economy?), but it was exciting. When I researched the tech to upgrade my swordsmen's swords, and finally got it, I was ecstatic! Let alone revealing something like mithril on the map before anyone else. Or building that special building.

 

And a big part of that was the strategic choices one made. We're starting to see the tiniest bit of that in the tech trees, and it's almost non-existent in citybuilding and character leveling. We want to make real choices, and when the outcomes are realized, feel that we got something awesome.

 

A lot of customer satisfaction is hard to quantify, and you may want to be careful about asking about it in your surveys. FE is getting better to be sure, but it's not up to FFH2's level yet.

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February 27, 2012 8:13:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I am finding the very linear path of tech progression a little not so flavorful as well.  Perhaps the tech tree can be expanded/branched so depending on what very early techs you pick (and their order) this rules out or includes some specific mid & high (end game) techs same should go for magic.  Maybe if I research one area it voids my ability to learn another.  That way your early choices are very impactful on late game play and strategy.  i.e. I spend the majority of my time learning weapons and armor techs early on, this pushes me into a war lord culture and thus I can never learn better research buildings then the initial library.  So my opponents who spend time early on building and learning later can out pace me with tech...??? something like that anyway.  Would definitely make me think a little harder when I want a big pointy stick but also would like to have a population that can read later on and make me a bazooka.

Aside from that I am liking the game so far but have not played too much yet.  Two thumbs up!  I give it a good.

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February 27, 2012 8:26:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Metal weapons -> should be better than any 'non resource' weapon.

 

Spears should be cheap and weak (in real medieval settings spears were the default weapon of choice for cannon fodder ... usually levies only carried spears and better weapons were meant for the richer citizens.)

Metal and Mounts should matter ...

Once you get metal weapons, that should be your first real counter to leather armor ... simple spears should not have armor ignore, and should be pretty much blocked from effectiveness by leather armor.

Also Chainmail, the first metal-based armor ... should be an AWESOME defense against anything readily available by the enemy. That means extra defense vs Pierce ... so that endless spawns of spears and bows are countered by Chainmail.

 

Longbows should probably cost a small amount of metal ... OR you could choose between stone arrows and metal arrows, with iron arrows costing metal.

Lets say Shortbows are currently 6 attack ... stone arrows should have 4 attack while metal arrows should have 6 or 7 attack.

 

Metal weapons should be pretty good against leather armor .... and an even match for Chainmail. Blunt should be slightly better at killing chainmail units (say 20-20% armor ignore) than the other types ... but still Chainmail should be the (easily) the best choice if you want to armor your units.

 

Next we have Plate. Plate should be the counter for basically every mundane form of attack. Plate should make anything a tank ... but should probably reduce dodge and accuracy. (as well as initiative via encumbrance)

Killing a soldier with plate armor ... with using say a Sword ... should be like trying to chop down an old Oak with a hand-axe. aka long and painful. If anything, the Mace should have some ability to mitigate the effects of plate.

Axe unit (of a certain level) should also have a bonus towards plate. perhaps not level 1 axes though ...

 

Mounts should probably matter more. I think the inherent 'bonus' of a mount should recieve a slight buff ... and also there should be Mount-Only traits usable in unit creation screen.

 

More HP will probably help to make units "less of a glass cannon" ... as well as natural melee counter attacks (1 each) . However the main thing will be making easily available weapons 'weak' and making the BONUS to having good resources MATTER MORE.

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February 27, 2012 8:36:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Voted fair a while back.

 

Right now upon nearing completetion of my first game of .86 I have to wonder something.......

 

Is it me or are units way too lethal? Its almost all about "first-hit, first to victory".....everything instantly dies almost, even if you armor up.

 

Another thing is that the game is crash-a-holic on a massive scale. Seems to happen the most when I click on resources, such as mines, etc. Seems like a its a audio file issue I hope the auto report from the crash window are reaching you guys...I'd love the stability to go back to .75s relative awesomeness compared to crashing once every 20 turns that I have now.

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February 27, 2012 8:54:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Everyone wants faction differentiation with meaningful gameplay impact.  The players want this. The Devs want this.  I want this.  Theres a guy that feeds the pigeons in a park by my house, and he's never played the game, but I'm pretty sure he wants this.

 

Out of curiosity, though, would you be willing to launch the game with only 3 different factions as long as they were sufficiently different? 

 

Gal Civ 2 didn't hit the high water mark in faction differentiation until the final expansion, and it proved a much bigger task than they anticipated. FFH was a work in progress over years, and it started with a solid base game to build on. If you get three different playable factions out of the box from RTS makers these days, you count yourself lucky.

Most people understand that radically different 3d art assets (models, animations, skins, etc) by release is highly unrealistic, I hope. Graphics aside, conceiving, testing and balancing even three different factions to the degree they were in Twilight of the Arnor takes a lot of time and effort. Expecting 10 significantly divergent factions in the likely timeframe of this game's development is a lot to ask. 

 

I'm not letting them off the hook for this. Ideally I want it all. But I think the priority has to be having a rock solid core game/gameplay experience to build on. If you dont have that, no amount of divergent factions are going to make a lick of difference.  If that means having to put up with only lesser variations until such time as they can address that with post launch content, I'm ok with that.  I'm not ok with the game launching without solid tactical combat, logical city building, robust unit design, strong hooks from an addicting quest and rewards system, and competent Strategic AI.  There is no game otherwise.

 

 

 

 

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February 27, 2012 9:00:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bingjack,
Everyone wants faction differentiation with meaningful gameplay impact.  The players want this. The Devs want this.  I want this.  Theres a guy that feeds the pigeons in a park by my house, and he's never played the game, but I'm pretty sure he wants this.

 

Out of curiosity, though, would you be willing to launch the game with only 3 different factions as long as they were sufficiently different? 

 

Gal Civ 2 didn't hit the high water mark in faction differentiation until the third expansion, and it proved a much bigger task than they anticipated. FFH was a work in progress over years, and it started with a solid base game to build on. If you get three different playable factions out of the box from RTS makers these days, you count yourself lucky.

Most people understand that radically different 3d art assets (models, animations, skins, etc) in the same time is completely off the table, I hope. Graphics aside, conceiving, testing and balancing even three different factions to the degree they were in Twilight of the Arnor takes a lot of time and effort. Expecting 10 significantly divergent factions in the likely timeframe of this game's development is a lot to ask. 

 

I'm not letting them off the hook for this. Ideally I want it all. But I think the priority has to be having a rock solid core game/gameplay experience to build on. If you dont have that, no amount of divergent factions are going to make a lick of difference.  If that means having to put up with only lesser variations until such time as they can address that with post launch content, I'm ok with that.  I'm not ok with the game launching without solid tactical combat, logical city building, strong hooks from an addicting quest and rewards system, and competent Strategic AI.  There is no game otherwise.
 

 

This actually might work well. Have only 3 hugely differentiated factions, but keep a large selection of leaders, also with their own traits.

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February 27, 2012 9:24:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I voted good because the direction of the game is pretty good.  My biggest concern is re-playability.  The player decisions are lacking impact and excitement.  I like your idea of making mundane techs less powerful to make achieving a later tech would be a step in the right direction.  Even with that change, I do think the trees are too shallow and boring.  In fact, everything feels too generic.  This goes against my previous position where elegance in game-play was most important.  Now I see that having everything generic is boring. 

I think the single biggest problem with the game is that there are too few strategic obstacles to players.  I think resources should only be available to cities they are attached unless connected by road or port.  Roads should be destroyable.  Outposts are very important now, but way to easy to make.  Cities are too easy to build.  There is no specialization required, no tradeoffs to put the player in the hotseat to make tough decisions.

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February 27, 2012 9:30:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Empire of Yithril ARE elves

Idea: If so, allow elves to move through forest terrain in combat battles.  In tactical battles give the Yithril a dodge bonus when they are in a forest tile. When they emerge from the tactical forest tiles they lose that dodge bonus. Allow no ranged attacks from a tactical forest tile. I.e. Yithril Elves in light armor can move through forest tiles but can't make ranged attacks (magical or archer) while in a forest tile. Other races can't move through forest tiles in tactical battles.

I would find spells more satisfying if there were more spells that affected the battle in "dramatically" different ways and researchable spell branches (books) that open up new spell choices (yep, I liked that from WOM).

  • Tactical Summoning Spells that summoned creatures to fight for you.
  • Control Breaking Spells - that affect summoned creatures
  • Terrain Altering Spells
  • Vision Altering Spells

Example: Summon Spider Swarm, Turn Summoned (take control of summoned creature), Downpour (Sudden rainstorm reduces line of sight and attack range for all units to 2 tiles), Earth Wall - Temporary Wall of Earth, Earth Maze, Wall of Fire, Flood Land (armored units can't move through flooded tiles), Summon Bears, etc.

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February 27, 2012 9:46:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Air II + Earth I -> Nature Walk (no terrain penalty for forest tiles, stack enchantment, mana upkeep)

Water II + Earth II -> Forest growth (produce new forest within territory)

 

Now ... allow the Tarth (woodelves) to get Nature Walk and Forest growth spells FOR FREE on all Champions.

Additionally, give them unique equipment "Forest Shoes" which do the same thing (without the mana cost) at the expense of extra equipment.

 

In this way, the Tarth can grow forests, can equip their soldiers with a unique equipment which capitalizes on this feature .... and also come with a spell just in case.

Hell, maybe they get a "better" version of the spell which gives their armies a bonus while in forest.

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February 27, 2012 9:51:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

My personal opinion is that the mundane stuff (things that don't require a special resource) should just be vastly wimpier than they currently are.

I'd agree; I think one of the things missing from decision making when building troops is a cheap and plentiful army vs smaller but elite/expensive.  Something like this could balance it out and insert that sort of dynamic.  I'd also long term like to see weapon and armor types feeling different and needing different strategies when used, but that's my wishlist.

On the visuals - I was thinking that one thing that might help is just a more dynamic tactical camera, like in HOMM, or Disciples.  When I zoom in close enough to actually see the art on an ogre, or watch the animations, or see that great new armor or sword my champ equipped, I think it looks pretty cool.  Spells also look neater up close.  But then the battle camera snaps around so much, and doesn't focus on the action well, so it doesn't feel useable at all with that level of zoom.  So I go to far overview, and miss all the art, but can play.  Which I think is unfortunate, since there is good stuff there.  I just don't see any of it because of the camera mechanics.

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February 27, 2012 9:59:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ten9,

I basically agree with you.

But I think we are not going to see fantasy archtypes or more distinct races for a couple of reasons:

1) The game has its own lore and Stardock is happy with that.

2) I think I have read about it being difficult to have many visually different races because the game would become very slow. The game engine would need to constantly load various textures and models, slowing down the game.

Maybe if they could make a game for 64-bit operating systems only, things would be different. But I can imagine that that is not a viable option yet commercially.

3) The different races require a lot of graphic designer effort. For games like MoM and Age of wonders the designers had to make a lot of sprites. I think, -but I'm no expert-, it is more involving to make 3D models and textures.

 

 

I wasn't asking for the usual archetypes. I was pointing out that when you decide that you are not going to have Elves and Dwarves, and Gnomes, and Merfolk, which are all instantly identifiable to most fantasy fans, you need to work harder to establish what you do have. Take the Fallen. They are divided into several factions, and have distinct physical characteristics. Urxen, Trogs, Wraiths. What defines each group? How do they differ? Well, in the backstory and setting there are all sorts of details about them, but we're playing a game. What's the difference in the game? As far as I've seen, one group is brownish, one is red, and the other is blue-gray. None of the background comes though in gameplay, and other than Ciressa's special item and trait, they all fight and die the same.

What I'm asking is for Trogs to do something that makes being at war with the Trogs mean something. Make bargaining with the Wraiths differ from bargaining with the Ironeers. Flavorful dialogue, race-specific powers, techs, something. Time and money was devoted to crafting all of this background. Share it with the players!

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February 27, 2012 10:10:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Devon_v,
 Make bargaining with the Wraiths differ from bargaining with the Ironeers. Flavorful dialogue, race-specific powers, techs, something. Time and money was devoted to crafting all of this background. Share it with the players!
So, Wraiths favor magical items instead of gold as payment.

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February 27, 2012 10:39:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Would it be possible to take a page from Master of Magic and have a building based tech tree for each faction? Keep most of what you have like it is, but for each race once I build X and X generic buildings I am able to build Y race specific building which allows me to build some race specific troops. Those race specific buildings could lead further and further up to more powerful race specific units and/or abilities for units which could give each race a nice feel to them while maintaining most of what the game currently offers. But again this could lead to cool stuff and a new level of strategy.

 

Do I make pioneers with this race to allow myself to train more of these kinds of troops, or do I want to make more cities of this race? What if we did away with "wargs" and changed them to "beast dens" and certain races would get different animals. The Urxen could get bear mounts which would be heartier and perhaps a bit slower but offer an extra swipe attack. The dragon-like race could have little pack drakes which might add fire to a unit's attack. And once I have trade and link all my cities via roads, I can mix and match units with other racial mounts as a sort of reward for having a diverse army.

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February 27, 2012 11:14:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Edwin99,



Quoting Devon_v,
reply 122
 Make bargaining with the Wraiths differ from bargaining with the Ironeers. Flavorful dialogue, race-specific powers, techs, something. Time and money was devoted to crafting all of this background. Share it with the players!
So, Wraiths favor magical items instead of gold as payment.

Thanks for your earlier post Devon v, excellent points...

Great idea, Edwin99! Also, tribute payments over time like ship leases in GC2. So I can buy some breathing room from those aggressive neighbors who might get distracted by gobbling up another player while I develop my forces.  The game needs more randomness in techs, spells and tactical battle maps. 

Let certain races start with water walking, mountaineering, pass w/o trace (Tarth?) past hostile monsters, are wraiths able to sneak into my capital and steal a tech or magic spell?  Let a race start with horseback riding and give them a nomadic feeling and great horse archers, but they must trade for metal...  as they rarely get the chance to research mining techs.

Spell research/mechanics:  I can't research fire magic past level 1 without at least one shard, more shards = faster fire spell research.  That would make them more valuable and mebbe if I take an enemy's fire shards, he can no longer use fireballs against my armies, just a flame dart at base power.

Let polearmed troops get an attack of opportunity on units that attack a unit adjacent to them.  Give us a reason to NEED a composite army of fast skirmishers and heavy footmen.

Combat magic should be about spells from different schools vying for battlefield superiority:

Let archers hide and snipe from forested squares, taking reduced damage from ordinary units, but let fire elementals and fire spells get critical damage modifiers for setting fire to said square.  Let my water mage counter by casting Downpour, quenching my archers and possibly destroying the fire elemental. 

The opposing life mage could then animate x number of trees based on number of life shards and have the squad of trees attack my archers, I cast earth spell Petrify and creat a National Park. 

Let the sites of some epic battles become diplo capital and prestige sites to build monuments on, solidifying their place in the lore of my awesome fantasy world.

Then let me start a new game and discover new combinations of spells and techs...

 

 

 

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