unacomn

Join Date 11/2008

+24

[Suggestion] Better character advancement

I've managed to spend a few hundred turns in Fallen Enchantress, I've come up with a few suggestions regarding the way heroes and sovereigns level up and develop over time. So here goes:

Chapter 1: I'm the Sovereign here, not you

Since the game is going in the direction that heroes traveling the land will have the ability to cast spells on their own and the dynasty system went bye bye, any hero can contribute to the spell tree, we come to the question. How is any hero different from a Sovereign? Why am I the hero of the story, and not the level 5 or level 9 heroes that are right there since the very first turn? I can't really think of a reason, and that makes it a bit sad. The Sovereign can't bee all powerful from the get go, but he needs an umpf to make him/her clearlly superrior in some small way when compared to other heroes. And no, the ability to found one city doesn't count.

To this extent, I propose adding a default trait to all sovereigns, "Path of the Sovereign" or "Chosen one" or "BMF", which would either slightly boost their statistics, or enabling them to do a few unique things. Now, what those unique things are, I can't fathom at this time(blame the cold). Or it could just enable some sovereign only traits on the level up screen. Which leads to...

Chapter 2: If it's got a number on the end, it's got to go

What I most enjoyed in games that had trait/perk systems like FE has, things like Fallout,..., OK, can't remember any other at this time, but what I enjoyed most was that every time that screen showed up, there was something new and exciting that allowed me to expand the utility of my character. FE does that to some extent, but the the amount of Trait I, Trait II, Trait III.. traits is a bit disappointing. They're not unique, they're repetitive, sometimes they can be useful, but, they're still repetitive. Nothing sucks out all of the fun and anticipation of leveling up then seeing the same traits you got last time . Consider replacing them and expanding the traits with more unique things. Things that enable more special abilities, like the the Path of the Defender has counter-attack, or the other paths have those nifty attacks. Path of the Mage doesn't have anything similar. For that I would suggest overpowering/mana-pumping spells. Oooh, this actually be the unique sovereign thing. And speaking of unique things...

Chapter 3: More uniquinesnesnesnessnes or Don't be afrait to steal from HOMM4

By far the best thing I liked about the gameplay of Heroes of Might and Magic 4 was how the heroes evolved. You had a combat skill, you had some life magic, BANG! You were a paladin. You had some death magic, you had some nature magic, BAM! Necromancer. This way, even though they were generic as hell at level 1, every hero in HOMM 4 became unique as time went on. If possible, try implementing something similar for FE. Since the different traits are already catagorized in different trees (defender, assassin, something somethign), how about doing something similar, letting the traits mix and match, generating classes that have their own bonuses, be them passive or active.

Chapter 4: The plot twist

Aeris dies.

The end.

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Great post and i would like to add to Chapter 2:

Not only the traits feel a bit dissapointing and repetitive. Many technologies should be unique and interesting, too. Examples can be found in many other games like Fallout, D&D 3.x, Pathfinder, ...

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Chapter 1:

Sov doesn't really need a unique tree, it is already the only character you can cutomize yourself. Simply adding some unique traits would be enough.

Chapter 2:

Agree completly. I really dont understand why focus is a fire spell, wouldnt it make a much better mage ability? While I don't see them removing all numbered traits it would be nice to see less of them.

Chapter 3:

unlocking dual specialization would be a really nice addition, instead of just being both a warrior and a mage, unlock the path of the spell-sword or something. I'd also love to see warrior weapon specialization and assasins made into actual assasins with more unique qualities.

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Disagree on #2. I like the traits with numbers, and I like their potential more if they get the right tweaks. They keep a character's total number of traits down to manageable number. They could also help make heroes more unique if they bias the level-up options towards offering a hero more of a trait he already has, and maybe bias it slightly against offering the first step of a trait to any of your other heroes once one has it. Then you end up with initiative specialists, dodge specialists, and maybe mobility specialists if they stick a number on the trait that makes a stack move faster. Etc. And I wouldn't be heartbroken if they upped the top number from 3 to maybe 5.

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The one thing that is annoying me the most in level advancement, be it sovereign or champion, is the randomness of the traits you get to choose when you level up.

Level advancement should not feel like a Magic: The Gathering game, where you are hoping for rare cards and are disappointed when you get a common one instead. That's all fine and good for a card game, but this is more of a wargame with roleplaying elements thrown in.

Now, I could buy into a 'you have these five common traits to choose from, and if you pick one, then the next level one directly related uncommon trait takes it's place', that way you have more control over your character advancement options. But as it stands, it looks completely random to me, which takes the joy entirely out of min-maxing, for those of us that enjoy such things. This also makes it harder to build that 'perfect ranger' or whatever, as you can't count on the trait system to cooperate. Hence, less attachment to your champions results.

Some traits may also need better balancing, but others have already posted about those at length.

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Maybe upon levelling up you can select more than one trait dependant on how rare they are. For example one rare trait, 2 uncommon or 3 common. Only a suggestion, but at least your level 10 or 12 end game characters would be a little more varied and interesting.

Cheers,

Andy.

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Quoting tjashen,

reply 4

The one thing that is annoying me the most in level advancement, be it sovereign or champion, is the randomness of the traits you get to choose when you level up.

This. +1

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Unless I'm mistaken, sovereigns already get a HP bonus.

Concerning the randomness of trait selection, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. But, I'm more used to playing games like Dungeon Crawl where I never really have full control of everything going on. I find it refreshing, not annoying.

However, that said, perhaps, to more differentiate sovereigns from other heros, it might not be a bad idea to keep the random trait selection for all heroes except the sovereign, and give sovereigns full trait selection control upon level-up? This will tend to make sovereigns more powerful as they level simply because players will be able to make better decisions about combining traits that reinforce themselves.

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They are both random and limited, so very few even change what my champion can do. Seems like these things I pick are very unimportant compared to the gear I am able to find, and I hate that. Is my champion a badass or just a normal guy with a cool sword?

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The Path trees leave alot to be desired. They just need so much more content. And a few Sov only traits is not a bad idea.

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Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 8

And level requirements for gear are really just the bandaid.

If anything there should be trait requirements ... but its probably better for hero gear to just scale with stats.

( Melee weapons are bad at low strength, good at high strength)

( Magical Staves are bad at low intelligence, good at high intelligence)

( Ranged weapons are bad at low Dex, good at high dex)

But WAIT! Is it really worth it to change all the hero equipment, or even rework the entire Stats system? NO!!!!

These ideas are fine, but I think specialization is the key. That, and this mechanic should be possible with ANY type of equipment.

So how do we achieve this system without completely REWRITING the status quo?

What is the answer??

Better TRAITS ...

Specializing Paths

Traits that affect how you use your stats

Have a trait that allows your Dex to increase your Accuracy with Ranged weapons

Have a trait that allows your constitution to increase your Defense with Plate armor.

Have a trait that allows your Dex to increase your Accuracy AND Dodge with Swords

Have a trait that allows your STRENGTH to increase your Air Dodge while using a Shield (path of the defender??)

Have a trait that allows your Dex to increase your damage with Ranged weapons.

Have a trait that allows your strength to begin contributing to your HP, yet lowers initiative (TANK HERO)

Have a trait that allows your Dex to add to melee attack, yet limits which melee weapons you can equip? Perhaps add initiative to balance the limitations added. (Assassin hero/DPS)

Have a trait that allows your Intelligence to increase your Spell DAMAGE (instead of just spell power vs resist chances)

Have a trait (in assassin path) that allows your DODGE to add to your spell resistance.

Have a trait that doubles critical damage when wielding a dagger

Have a trait that doubles critical chances when using a bow.

Have a trait that adds to attack and defense (yet lowers dodge) when using a mount.

Have a trait that INCREASES dodge when using a mount. (separate paths/ mutually exclusive)

Have a trait that VASTLY increases dodge when NOT using a mount.

Not every trait is equal, and not every trait is wanted ... some traits contradict each other, you won't want every trait even if you reach level 100

Best way to do this would be to make the Paths mutually exclusive, and to allow some traits to be available with several different paths.

Magical Dodge -> Defender and Assassin

Strength into HP (tanker) -> Defender and Warrior

Dex bonus added to melee damage (DPS) -> Assassin and Warrior

Dex increases Sword accuracy and dodge -> Warrior specialization (Blade master)

Daggers doubling Critical Damage -> Assassin

Bows doubling critical chance -> Marksman

Traits should be able to uniquely sculpt each hero into something WORTH the experience, into a hero that is WORTHY of weilding that super awesome blade.

If you have a Vorpal Blade of +1, you will want to give it to your level 15 blade master, NOT your level 20 Sorcerer.

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HenriHakl

Join Date 09/2011

+76

A suggestion for hero advancement: there should be a *tiny* chance to get feat options that you don't meet the prerequisites for. For example, currently "Path of the Warrior" unlocks (among other things) "Stun" and "Sweep". Having "Dexterity" gives you the option to select "Finesse".

Now in some cases (like the Fire Apprentice, Fire Disciple, etc progression) the prerequisites should be respected. But sometimes it would be awesome to get a completely random and unaccounted for trait option. As is, you can plan out a hero's progression in exact detail with essentially no room for a lucky lottery access.

Another thing, once you've picked a Path trait, the other paths have an extremely low chance of appearing - you literally have to exhaust the options to get another path pick.

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I generally get 2 path picks before level 10 pretty easily.

However yes, 3 path picks is probably next to impossible.

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