Get a job, kid

By on February 8, 2012 8:19:05 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Draginol

Join Date 03/2001
+102

Here’s a growing problem: College graduates who have never had a job of any kind.

I get a lot of these resumes on my desk now. 4-5 years in college, living at home, never worked. No mall job. No McDonalds. No summer landscaping. Nothing.

I used to not pay that close attention to that but I do now.  I have to because kids who have never had a job have no idea what’s expected at a job. Basic things like getting up every day and being at work at a consistent time. 5 days a week.

If you’re a parent and you’re not making your kid work so that they can “focus on their grades” you’re doing them a disservice. I won’t interview anyone anymore that has never had a job. I don’t care what their GPA was.

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February 9, 2012 12:47:12 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting pacov,
they aren't worth the investment. + that looks great for them on a resume.

I doubt that being cut loose because 'they ain't worth the money' is going to look all that rosy on a resume....

 

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February 9, 2012 1:24:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not sure that there's anything easy to articulate there For me, at least, it's pretty much just the vibe I get from them (not empirical, I know, but I have a better success rate with that than some of the usual 'bullet point' methods that might work for others).

 

I pretty much just bang them hard on the technical.   I rejected behavioral interviewing a long time ago  (that's not to say everyone else has, though).  My logic is if they know their stuff--and least, to the extent that I hammer them--then they had to have a work ethic to get that way.  You don't just know the field overnight.

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February 9, 2012 1:50:10 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting tetleytea,


I pretty much just bang them hard on the technical. I rejected behavioral interviewing a long time ago (that's not to say everyone else has, though). My logic is if they know their stuff--and least, to the extent that I hammer them--then they had to have a work ethic to get that way. You don't just know the field overnight.

 

Yup, I do that, too. The handful of oddballs that I've seen have been actually pretty good at the technical, but when I brought them in, they treated it as a license to slack.

Mostly, though, I agree with you, if they can get through a pretty solid tech, they've at least had to do some work to get that far. It just seems that some small portion of them want to rest on that, and not do anything else

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February 9, 2012 1:50:22 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

You know that works the other way around too.  If someone actually notices that you're looking for someone with three years experience and they only have two and a half, they may discount the possibility of getting the job at all and move on to consider a different vacancy.  Considering that the actual experience gained in three years can vary considerably, it might just be an idea to not mention a duration but ask for particular things in the person specification instead.

Consider also that someone may not even mention work experience because they don't consider it to be relevant.  Which okay, it's their loss if they haven't mentioned any kind of work on their resume, but that doesn't mean they're a bad candidate.

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February 9, 2012 1:59:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Jobs are tough to come by in this economy. These days, if you're not already established and you want a job you have to either get really lucky or make it yourself. Making your own job is quite simply beyond the abilities of a many of people, especially young people who don't have work experience and haven't seen a business run from the perspective of an employee, much less an entrepreneur.

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February 9, 2012 2:52:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

 Basic things like getting up every day and being at work at a consistent time. 5 days a week. 
 

 You mean like holiday?  

 

My dad had the same idea, so after I finished high school he took me with him to work for the summer, at an auto repair shop. Because up until then, getting to school at 7AM every day, spending 6-7 hours in class, spending another 3-4 hours doing homework, and another 2-3 hours  preparing for the graduation exam and working on the accreditation project and working on my own stuff while managing to not have a nervous breakdown was a piece of cake in his view. I did gain something from the time spent in the auto shop, partial loss of hearing and no time to work on the things I wanted before starting college. 

School thought me a very strict working schedule, one that I was surprised that no one respected in college. I was literally, the only student in math class to actually attend the first two hours of the course in the morning. During that time, I got a job in an insurance company, but I had the nasty habit of keeping regular work hours, meaning I had to stand around outside, waiting for someone with the key to the office to come along and let me in. Once I actually had to go looking for the keys around town, because the manager lost them on a bus. There was also the fun part of some time sensitive papers that were legally fudged because when I got back from signing them, the office was closed, everyone having gone home after lunch on a Friday. I quit that job after a month.

Then I got a job that was basically hell in regards of working hours, or so I've been told. I didn't start to notice what people meant until I got physically ill. I didn't stop, I just shrugged it off as a silly human reactions that needed to be removed , until I realized my work wasn't being used at it's full potential  and that for the past few years I had no social life whatsoever, just a downward spiraling pit of depression. 

Things are better now. My point is, someone who didn't have a job in high school or college may not be completely unequipped for the workforce. They may actually have the mental stability which I now sort of lack, because of my work ethic. The kind of mental stability that doesn't require starting off the day with 5 minutes of the Swedish Chef, in order to trigger humor, as to remind me I'm still human. 

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February 9, 2012 3:05:45 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It's all well and good to say that you want work experienced applicants only.... ie, no employment history no job, but what that leaves if every employer adopts the same policy is a bunch of over-educated college/university graduates who are unemployable in the fields they studied...

Or, alternatively, a bunch of highly educated job applicants who can't even get a job sweeping bar floors because they've no work history, despite knowing how to write computer programs.

It's all well and good to say: "Get a job, kid."... but what happens when there are NO jobs locally for that kid/those kids to get?  There was a time not so long ago when I found it hard to find an adult... much less a mature aged adult behind the checkout, the counters at KFC or McDonalds, etc, but not so much any more.  No, what I'm finding is far fewer kids in those jobs these days and more adults... far more adults... even mature aged adults and 67 year olds who still cannot afford to retire.

An employment history has to start somewhere, and if NOBODY is willing to give a kid a start, then his/her future is uncertain and already futile... doomed to a life of feeling useless, inadequate and unimportant.  There will be no incentive to go to college or university.... fuck, why even bother with kindergarten or prep-school if it's only in preparation for higher education... that leaves you an over-qualified and unemployable layabout because nobody will give you a go.  And what about those young couples wanting to start a family, hearing that their unborn children are doomed to futureless lives?

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February 9, 2012 3:11:06 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Hmm, before I worked in Finance, many, many moons ago, I did all sorts of jobs.

Packing insulation, gardening, driving a bread van etc. You know, paying my way. I eventually stopped putting all that on my CV because some of the feedback I got from job interviews was it gave the impression I came from the wrong background to work in Finance...

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February 9, 2012 3:42:46 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Fuzzy Logic,
Packing insulation, gardening, driving a bread van etc. You know, paying my way. I eventually stopped putting all that on my CV because some of the feedback I got from job interviews was it gave the impression

I know what you mean!   I worked delivering newspapers, herding/milking cows, baling hay, as a plasterers labourer, then apprentice plasterer for my dad, but took it all off my resume after getting knocked back for a job as a gigolo.... the boss reckoned my hands would be too rough.

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February 9, 2012 3:48:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not sure you have a real notion of how difficult it is for many, even with real work experience ... that folk with degrees are having a tough time finding work even at McDonald's is a sad state of affairs.  College education is becoming increasingly a bad investment ... McD's @ $16k/year isn't going to help anyone pay off $40k student loans after trying to pay for things like groceries, utilities and rent. :/

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February 9, 2012 4:03:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting myfist0,

Quoting Alstein, reply 22That's gonna make things worse. 

You do make a good point and I am sure you meant no offence but bringing your troops home should not ever be equated with that line. Money from war can easily go to infrastructure and tax incentives to hire vets is a damn good idea.

Just a peace luvin Canadians point of view. 

And I also hear the banging of the war drums for Iran and Irans ally Syria every time the TV is on. 

 

In the US, it's almost guaranteed to go to austerity measures.

 

Iran- I think we'd just bomb them, Syria, we'd do what we did in Libya.  Both of those things are not that troop intensive.

 

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February 9, 2012 4:04:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You know one of the most over-used words with regards to jobs?   Overqualified.

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February 9, 2012 4:27:49 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

+1 to StevenAus. Exactly. It doesn't matter if you've got a degree from X university because no doubtedly someone from the same class will apply for the same job who has better grades and get the job instead of you despite both of you having the same qualifications only his/her grade was better than yours. To hire someone purely on experience is a bad move imo. There is plenty of new blood willing to do a job and no company will hire because they have no experience but they need that job to get experience in the first place. For many years now it's the same situation. Like others have mentioned here internships or even a trial basis to see how they fare. It's why here in England we have something called Probationary period. It differs from company to company but generally it's 6-8 weeks and if you don't meet expectations of the employer you get laid off. I just think that companies should be a little more lenient towards the younger generation and give them a chance.

 

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February 9, 2012 5:22:57 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Let Draginol use whatever self-assured criteria he likes to hire people for his own company. I don't get the impression that he posts with a desire for learning or self-reflection. However I do think he should be listened to as an experienced employer within this particular business sector.

But I'll add:

Parents, if you are looking for advice on how to help your kids have an opportunity for a job/future which blends happiness and being able to afford living in your own country: teach them work ethic, commitment, honour and humility in everything they do. Add a dash of realistic goals for their strengths and weaknesses, and likewise realistic expectations. I say a dash because they'll need to accept what they can achieve at any one time AND to aspire for what they dream.

Draginol will hopefully get what he's looking for and they will suit his purpose, but I believe he is reducing his chances of getting that new, unjaded, diamond ore patiently waiting to shine.

The irony is that software development needs imagination, but a typical 'get-by' job only focuses on and requires adheration to work processes and quality/efficiency standards. Do you have a recipe for 'innovative' software up your sleeve?

I've since found this phrase is littered throughout Google, but today I was thinking of a team motto and I started with 'Think outside the box' and ended at 'Think without the box'.

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February 9, 2012 5:24:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oh great. Another one who wants his newcomers to be mid twenty, have 10 years of work experience, stellar grades and somehow found the time for social projects to increase their team work ability.

I am sure that all of those lazy ass youngsters are completly useless, 'cause they never planted a fucking flower after making thier homework in math or programming.

Generalization for the win.

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February 9, 2012 5:36:59 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It's not often I disagree with things that you say Brad, but I really can't agree with you on this one.........  I hope you read some of the replies here and think again about giving people a chance. Hire the person, not their record, because in my experience you will pass by some of the best employees around.

I spent thirty years in the casino industry hiring and training young people to be croupiers. Most of my star pupils had no work experience at all, but were so grateful for the opportunity that they worked their asses off for me. If you set achievement levels at varying stages of their employment as a requirement for remaining employed, then you have the opportunity to get rid of them if they don't meet the required levels.

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February 9, 2012 5:40:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's easy to say that young people are lazy.  But the funny thing about the human race is... anything that happens on a significant enough scale has a germ of a reason behind it.  We are not totally logical, but neither are we totally illogical.  I believe most people want to get on in this world.  The truth is that a lot of societies make this very hard.  If you can think without the box, as Skarny came up with, you just may find some very hard-working and loyal workers who will be forever grateful you gave them a chance when no-one else did.

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February 9, 2012 5:47:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Agree 100% with Brad's OP.

And the excuse that kids have a hard time finding the first job doesn't cut it with me. If they really look they should be able to find something - and if they don't they can join a volunteer organisation like Surf Lifesaving and get some skills while learning about responsibility - and meet a hell of a lot of potential employers too.

I made sure all of our kids hunted for a job on their own when they turned 15. All of them got jobs that were menial but they all learned a solid work ethic. They all got ripped off at times and had to learn to stand up for themselves. I can't begin to tell you how proud I am of them.

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February 9, 2012 6:06:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting OsirisDawn,
Oh great. Another one who wants his newcomers to be mid twenty, have 10 years of work experience, stellar grades and somehow found the time for social projects to increase their team work ability.

I am sure that all of those lazy ass youngsters are completly useless, 'cause they never planted a fucking flower after making thier homework in math or programming.

Generalization for the win.

Meh thats the world. Its no different than someone assuming that a person with an education that stopped at high school or less doesn't have a working knowledge of a subject. Employers only have the records, certifications etc to go on. Sure you could be self taught.. but in todays society its not about the reality of matters but how the prospective employer perceives them. With out a way for him to verify your work ethic or your level of knowledge with the given subject what is he supposed to go on?

 

You could be a programming savant.. and chances are if you don't have the educational certifications you won't get hired as a programmer.

In the same aspect you could have the strongest work ethic imaginable... but without a work history there is very little the employer has to go on.

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February 9, 2012 6:27:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Fistalis,



Quoting OsirisDawn,
reply 40
Oh great. Another one who wants his newcomers to be mid twenty, have 10 years of work experience, stellar grades and somehow found the time for social projects to increase their team work ability.

I am sure that all of those lazy ass youngsters are completly useless, 'cause they never planted a fucking flower after making thier homework in math or programming.

Generalization for the win.


Meh thats the world. Its no different than someone assuming that a person with an education that stopped at high school or less doesn't have a working knowledge of a subject. Employers only have the records, certifications etc to go on. Sure you could be self taught.. but in todays society its not about the reality of matters but how the prospective employer perceives them. With out a way for him to verify your work ethic or your level of knowledge with the given subject what is he supposed to go on?

 

You could be a programming savant.. and chances are if you don't have the educational certifications you won't get hired as a programmer.

In the same aspect you could have the strongest work ethic imaginable... but without a work history there is very little the employer has to go on.

Yes, you are right.

That doesn't mean it is a sane way of thinking or in any way a good path to follow for a society as a whole.

As a society you can't on one hand whine about high unemployment, while on the other hand steadily increase the preq's for entry into employment.

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February 9, 2012 6:31:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Although it depends on whether there are enough applicants for positions.  If you have enough suitable applicants, you don't need to change your methodology.  But if you are finding you just don't have enough "suitable applicants", it is much better to make the best with what you've got, and if that means having trial periods for particular selected applicants, then you really need to bite the bullet and give that a few decent tries.

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February 9, 2012 7:05:00 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

i agree with boxxi... most people are just greatful to get the job... they will show up and do their job.

give people a chance brad.....

have you heard of job probation?

in australia its a huge thing.

a factory might hire 3 people, they are given a 3 month probation to see how they perform, do they show up everday? are they hard workers?

do they keep proper lunch breaks and smokos? do they work well with others? ect. its a good way to weed out the people who will fit into your

working environment and make your workplace a productive one.

and of course, after the 3 month probation, you decide who stays and who goes (of your new employees)

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February 9, 2012 7:10:03 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

on another note.. and this is something for you to think about too...

at one time, i was signed up with a job agency and i was contacted for a job in a meat processing factory..

wow i was excited. that night 20 women including myself turned up, all brand new on the job.

well, i worked my ass off, didnt talk to anyone, unless i was spoken too and i think, did a good job.

most of the other women talked and laughed and basically didnt work so hard, they were more interested

in making friends with all the other new women.

out of those 20 women, the next day only 6 women were called back. i was one of them.

see? when given a chance, the ones who really want the job stand out.

think about it. 

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February 9, 2012 7:30:19 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Of course....I'd always choose the one who was 'grateful' over the one who was 'greatful' ..... but that's just me.... Spell checker

And there-in lies one of the problems of the modern age... illiteracy.

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Yo, dude.

I was 19 when I started full-time work .... 2 years into my Architecture course .... and learned more in the first week working than in all of those 2 years.  38 years later the only thing that's changed is I now have 2 full-time jobs.  [and strange hours]...

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February 9, 2012 8:31:35 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I think there is a difference between someone who is out there actively looking for work, but unfortunately can't find it, and someone who just doesn't do anything at all.

 

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