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stevelamperti
Join Date 11/2008
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[Suggestion] Champions die after receiving 5 wounds

February 1, 2012 12:57:22 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


If champions were to die permently after receiving their fifth (or fourth, or even third,) wound, this would have a couple of effects on game play.  For one thing wounds would be more meaningful, the player would have to be more careful with an injured champion, and the injuries would be much more meaningful.

It would also lead to serious consideration of the idea of retiring a champion to a city to manage the city, as he/she couldn't be risked in the field anymore.  It would also reduce the crazy number of traits that some champions get.  I find that even in a relatively short game, some of my champions get this really long list of traits that starts to feel a bit much.

Just a thought.

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CdrRogdan
Join Date 04/2009
+23
Reply #1 February 1, 2012 1:14:42 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I actually prefer this to a low random chance the champion can die. Controlled numbers can be planned around (even if you argue they are less realistic). Champions are pretty sturdy right now and this will only effect the AI. As additional code would be needed to prevent the AI from being aggressive with high wound characters, I would prefer a hold be placed on such a change until the computer becomes more competant.

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StevenAus22
Join Date 06/2010
+110
Reply #2 February 1, 2012 1:34:06 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Also, with such a change there would need to be a higher number of champions available, like hiring from a city tavern or inn, or rescuing a champion from a dungeon or other quest.

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n3ctaris
Join Date 06/2010
+7
Reply #3 February 1, 2012 2:33:30 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting StevenAus,
reply 2
Also, with such a change there would need to be a higher number of champions available, like hiring from a city tavern or inn, or rescuing a champion from a dungeon or other quest.

 

Really? I play on hard with all hard or challenging AI and I don't think I've ever had a champ die 5 times...

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Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
+148
Reply #4 February 1, 2012 8:08:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm good with this.  5 deaths = final.

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LordTheRon
Join Date 03/2003
+13
Reply #5 February 1, 2012 8:14:05 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I've always supported the idea that champs could die. This sound like an interesting compromise, combined with the splitting up of xp.

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StevenAus22
Join Date 06/2010
+110
Reply #6 February 1, 2012 8:18:04 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I mean, AI champs can easily die 5 times.  I don't think something should be introduced where 5 deaths = final if the AI still loses its heroes so frequently.

Note: I think even with 5 deaths = final, the sovereign would be immune.

PS: What would happen if a champion with 4 wounds or less drinks a rare restoration potion and gets all its wounds healed?

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Vallu751
Join Date 05/2003
+14
Reply #7 February 1, 2012 8:18:39 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Agree with the suggestion. Last game I played, an enemy champion was covered all over with different wounds after I had beat him time and time again. It felt somewhat anti-climactic.

Or maybe just increase the chance of dying for each wound previously suffered?

No prior wounds, 5% chance to die if falls. One prior wound, 10% chance. Two prior wounds, 20% chance. Etc.

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StevenAus22
Join Date 06/2010
+110
Reply #8 February 1, 2012 8:21:40 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

5 wounds = death could be planned around.  Percentage chance of dying from a wound would mean some games could be decided by whose champion is lucky or unlucky.

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Blackmantle_
Join Date 08/2010
+5
Reply #9 February 1, 2012 8:32:45 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums
Have to chime in with the: Don't do it until the AI learns to handle fights. Right now it seems like a mechanic which improves the fun by helping the AI and I would not like it to go. Later on when the AI is better this could be revisited... Number of Wounds = Kill might still be more interesting than random chance by all accounts...
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Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #10 February 1, 2012 8:40:49 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think 4 wounds should be when champs start having a chance of dying, which increases with each death.

 

 

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Kantok
Join Date 10/2007
+67
Reply #11 February 1, 2012 8:55:09 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Why 5?  Why not 3 or 7 or 22?  

It's completely arbitrary.

If anything have an ever increasing chance of perma-death based on the number of injuries.  

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Redwind85
Join Date 03/2007
+10
Reply #12 February 1, 2012 9:10:55 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,
reply 11
Why 5?  Why not 3 or 7 or 22?  

It's completely arbitrary.

If anything have an ever increasing chance of perma-death based on the number of injuries.  


yeh that would make more sense.

((
first death (chance of death) + penalty
second death (higher chance) + penalty etc etc

(later after 25 deaths)

"ok... your pretty worn out there buddy.. you have -60 to all stats. your hands are gangreous ...8 times over....i think its time to just accept death"

champion : GAaalblbRRTLRaaahRgh! 
))

hehe i would love this.

spells to remove the penalties that people suffered from this would be nice (such as regeneration healing certain penalty types - remove diesease  healing such things and so on.)

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bpalczewski
Join Date 05/2010
+8
Reply #13 February 1, 2012 9:25:33 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I agree totally - in my last war i have to kill the same champions like 15 times, many times they were just 4 of them in one stack with no other armies around, so it felt pretty badly repetitive ... 

 

 

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flymar
Join Date 08/2007
+10
Reply #14 February 1, 2012 4:02:10 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,
reply 11
Why 5?  Why not 3 or 7 or 22?  

It's completely arbitrary.

If anything have an ever increasing chance of perma-death based on the number of injuries.  

Yes but IMHO this should never reach 100%. Heroes shouldn't be indestructable but some of them might be real lucky.

And other thing. There should be a chance for a new champion to join the ranks. The chance should be fairly low, connected with faction prestige or great deeds like defeating some monsters or completing a quest.

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Creslin321
Join Date 02/2008
+1
Reply #15 February 1, 2012 4:04:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


I actually liked the system from Dominions 3...

In Dom3, if your "God" (Champ/Sovereign) died, you had to pay an exorbitant amount of resources and wait several turns to bring them back.  I think they could get brought back an unlimited amount of times, but it was pretty costly.  So it put losing a champ kind of on the same scale as losing units.  In both cases, it took time and resources to get them back.

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taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34
Reply #16 February 1, 2012 4:20:37 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

why are you guys calling the sovereign a champion? Champions are those guys your sov recruits (who happen to be completely identical to sov only they need to be imbued to cast the spells they know).
I never actually had a champion die in FE... do champions re-spawn? (I know the sov just gets a wound) 

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