Magic resistance providing percentage reduction in spell damage.

By on January 31, 2012 4:23:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

StevenAus

Join Date 06/2010
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I think it would make spell resistance much more useful if instead of only affecting non-damage spells, it would partial protection from damage spells.  Maybe for each point of magic resistance, you get 1% reduction in the damage from damage spells, and damage suffered by a unit by a certain type of damage is

Full damage x (1 - Damage Type Resistance %) x (1 - Magic Resistance %), rounded down.  If a unit is 50% resistant to fire and has a 20% magic resistance, then damage done to that unit by a fire damage spell of 50 would be:

50 x 0.5 x 0.8 = 20

If another unit had the same magic resistance but no fire resistance, damage from the spell would be:

50 x 1 x 0.8 = 40

If the unit had the same magic resistance but double damage from fire (resistance would be -100%) damage from the spell would be:

50 x [1-(-1)] x 0.8 = 50 x 2 x 0.8 = 80

To distinguish armies from champions, they could have traits that increase their magic resistance percentage, or provide resistance to certain types of damage, and furthermore, certain traits could be restricted to certain races or have other requirements.  You could have a % weakness (not just 100%) to a certain damage type too, that would reduce the cost of a unit (maybe by a percentage).  I don't think complete immunity to any damage type would be a good idea for any selectable trait for a unit though.  For both armies and champions, Intelligence would increase spell resistance by a balanced amount/percentage and champions could increase their magic resistance or damage type resistance with items (should be rare) or they could increase their magic resistance by increasing their intelligence.  This would also mean that mages would have more magic resistance.  Intelligence would no longer increase XP gain.  Intelligence would also be used for how much mana a champion/sov could use per season.  It should be enough to cast a few decent spells, but not so much that you can wipe out three or five groups of big armies in one season.

For spells that don't have a damage component, magic resistance would stay as a percentage chance of avoiding the effect altogether, modified by spell mastery.  I don't think spell mastery should affect damage spells.

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January 31, 2012 4:26:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd rather just see that every spell can be resisted, that seems much easier for the players and the devs

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January 31, 2012 4:33:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah I guess.  I would be happy if all spells could be resisted completely if you pass a magic resistance check.

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January 31, 2012 5:16:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting StevenAus,
Yeah I guess.  I would be happy if all spells could be resisted completely if you pass a magic resistance check.

A partial resist would be much better, because the spell has at least some effect. That is the reason why a resistance check should reduce the effect of all spells by 50 % and items should only increase the spell resistance and not the resistance against spell damage.

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January 31, 2012 5:25:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The Casters Spell Mastery should add to damage and the targets Spell Resistance should reduce it, not by 100% guaranteed each but a semi random ammount. That way things like the Magic Resistant trait actually do something!

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January 31, 2012 6:02:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

All spells targeting enemy units should (from my point of view/interest) be resistable. If you pass the check, the spell fails. If it's AOE spell, those who pass it, are not affected.

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January 31, 2012 6:34:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If you only have a resist or not mechanic it is like having dotch or not. But in combat you also have a defense  value which reduces the damage (correct?).

Another reason:

Why should a creature/preason restist flames (from a fire ball). This is a physical effect. I agree for say shrink or such spells, but "physical magic" should have some effect.

 

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January 31, 2012 6:43:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Schnorkde,
If you only have a resist or not mechanic it is like having dotch or not. But in combat you also have a defense  value which reduces the damage (correct?).

Another reason:

Why should a creature/preason restist flames (from a fire ball). This is a physical effect. I agree for say shrink or such spells, but "physical magic" should have some effect.

 

Protip: don't mix science with magic. You will lose every single time.

(I still say that Fireball is based on creating antimatter particles that collide with matter and create that neat fire explosion)

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January 31, 2012 6:59:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wintersong,
Protip: don't mix science with magic. You will lose every single time

got your point BUT:

a computer does not contain magic (unlike some people think) so its just a model question. And I like to have some "understandable" magic. Luckily I am a computer scientist and also work on HPC physical simulations, so I already do magic

*Spoiler* currently I am working on a "physical magic model". Very, very may be this will be a mod some day if I can access deep enough.

Modeltip: Do not mix magic with a good model and real physics in "this" world.

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January 31, 2012 7:38:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Partial resists please. Unless the number of resists is high enough to provide the average outcome (such as a case where a spell targets 7 units in a stack) or the loss of an action is minor (it isn't) there should be some effect from the spell cast, even if it is reduced.

All or nothing mechanics are for gamblers not strategists!

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January 31, 2012 7:58:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting CdrRogdan,
All or nothing mechanics are for gamblers not strategists!

True!

See Risk vs. Samurai Swords/Shogun or Axis & Allies board games.

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January 31, 2012 8:14:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Resist or not would be easier, but partial resist (at least for damage spells) would be better IMHO.

What do people think about using Intelligence as a mana cap per season?  (Not the intelligence value, maybe 3 times intelligence in mana costs, provided those tactical battle mana reductions are removed?)

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January 31, 2012 9:48:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Partial resist against dmg would be better than chance for full resist. Full resist would be too random, resisting the wrong spell could lose a battle for you while partial resist you would know not to cast it if i't would only do limited dmg. Plus then high lv monsters wouldn't be totall immune to magic and mage champions could at least help a little.

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January 31, 2012 10:00:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, personally I would prefer magic resistance always gives a % reduction in damage from any magic spell.

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January 31, 2012 10:16:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'll split the topics, one for magic resistance providing percentage reduction in spell damage, and another one for intelligence being a mana cap.

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January 31, 2012 10:40:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Int increasing spell dmg would be much better than the current system of it being 100% abut having the evoker talent. If evoker is removed and more + Int talents added than it would be a huge improvement.

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January 31, 2012 10:50:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Do people think there should be a mana cap per season?  If so what should it be based on?  Number of shards (possibly of a certain type)?

And I would tend to agree that Int increasing spell damage *and* size of spell effects (for those that have more than binary yes/no) and ditching Evoker would be good.

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January 31, 2012 11:08:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would like there to be a cap of how much mana a single unit can use in tactical combat, like the essence stat use to be.  Also, Stats like Int and Dex need to be as useful as Str.  Right now, there is a powerful trait that can be added to a faction that is hard to pick over the one that adds some to dex and there isn't one to add to int.  Int needs to be more useful to both soldiers and heroes.  Increasing magic damage does nothing for a soldier.  Should increase spell damage resistance.

 

 Although, the game glitched when I used an escape scroll and gave me negative mana, and then I was able to cast magic endlessly.  That was a hoot.  But, probably not great for balance though...

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January 31, 2012 11:21:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Good point.  To make Int competitive, having it increase magic resistance would be a good idea.  Maybe it would be better if the only things that increased spell effects (including damage and non-binary buffs/debuffs) was a champion/sov using spells, or shards of the right type?

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January 31, 2012 11:24:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
I'd rather just see that every spell can be resisted, that seems much easier for the players and the devs

Ot not.

Because that would mean that a unit with very high magic resistance could resist ALL spells as the same ?

Or maybe some spells should be harder to resist. Or you could add more mana in your spell to help it pierce the magic resistance.

 

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January 31, 2012 11:26:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Intelligence makes you level faster, makes spells more effective, and increases spell resistance. What else could you possibly want from it?

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January 31, 2012 11:30:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You mean currently in 0.77?  Okay, I guess that's fine, but I think it should still reduce damage of damage spells, as all or nothing is a "Gambler's Strike".   Even though a poor pun, I think that not being able to have any resistance to damage spells just because they are "damage spells" and not another type is a bad thing.

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January 31, 2012 11:44:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
Intelligence makes you level faster, makes spells more effective, and increases spell resistance. What else could you possibly want from it?

 

The resistance doesn't help against damage as far as I know, just effects.  Spells more effective doesn't help soldiers and I doubt really even helps spell casters much, level faster maybe, but my 50 int sov didn't tend to level a whole lot faster than his 15 int champion.  I think my Sov was level 30 and my champ was level 27. 

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January 31, 2012 11:59:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Already had a topic on cap mana:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/416953

I like the "spend more mana/cast time to have better piercing". Could allow a lower caster to have on important spell after two rounds. Will add some depth. But do NOT make Int to the uber attribute providing all sorts of magic bonuses. Maybe we need another attribute like "wisdom".

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