Promising!

By onomastikon on January 3, 2012 5:14:05 AM from

onomastikon

Join Date 02/2006

+17

We have been getting a lot of great peeks into FE as things seem to be gearing up for beta, and it looks very promising! Most of Brad's promises seem to be well underway to realization. Exciting!

Only one thing seems scary to me from a larger design perspective: Champions. They just clean up. We've seen it in all of Brad's AI blogs. If Champions are really that powerful, then researching tech for armies, recruiting armies, mobilizing them and paying for them becomes much less appealing. Especially now that Champions are functionally immortal. This is now a no-brainer: get as many champions as you can, you have nothing to lose. I'm not talking about styles of gaming ("which should be better? big armies or butt-kicking champions?" --> don't see a constructive discussion happening there, that's a matter for taste, I'd prefer a nice combination myself), I'm talking about game conception: no-brainers (no thinking needed) are bad, because they are the opposite of "strategy" (which should require thinking, or at least evaluating various polyvalent scenarios). Suggestion: (a) Make Champions' ability to survive battle only work if certain spells (e.g. a Life or Death spell requiring Mana upkeep) is cast on that Champion, something like "Blessed Luck" (Kingdom) or "Demonic Pact" (Empire) and that spell has a duration, so that a certain amount of "investment" is required. ( Make Champions' ability to survive battle only work within the faction's Zone of Control ("dominion"). (c) Make Champions' ability to survive battle have a toggle setting in game setup which can be turned off if needed -- then Champions can be resurrected by casting a higher-level Life or Death spell ("Ressurection" or "Awaken", if you are Kingdom or Empire). Of course, you'll need to ensure that you have a caster powerful enough to cast those spells somewhere. One could also imagine that these spells actually might even make the previously deceased stronger, at least in some ways: so that the Champion might have a missing ear or broken kneecap, but if he returns as some undead freak (Empire) he could be more resistant to mundane damage, while a Kingdom Champion who has returned from wherever it is they go (heaven?) might be more resistant to, say, magic.

Quoting marionesi,

reply 20

I agree. More simply, I'd say that to have fun there must be interesting trade-offs, as Derek pointed out. This may be, but it not limited to, risk. So I agree that sending out immortal champs is no risk, so no interesting tradeoff, hence no fun. A permanent scar may also me too small a risk to make an interesting tradeoff. A scar, some significant downtime, loss of experience, loss of some items, et cetera may balance it in the right way.

Btw, aging champs are an interesting idea to explore, but it might disturb players who like to have uber champs going around the map

When a champ is defeated, they spend time recovering. Some of the penalties may include loss of a level. At least some of what you suggested is currently in the alpha build.

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maybe champions should be primarily spell casters rather than beasts of battle.. then at least it gives reason, meaning and balance to tactical combat..

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Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 25

Not the random weak farmers with unpronounceable names in WoM.

Hey, the random name generator was a pretty neat technology.

Replacing with a human, even if he is a fantasy author, still reminds me that it's not a computer generated name.

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This is offtopic and no disrespect or slight intended to the OP, but would it be possible to lock this forum so only Stardock employees can create threads? Kind of a bummer to see a new Sneak Peek posted only to realize it's.... not.

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Hated them farmers. Liked their names.

What about immortal weak farmers?

Quoting goodgimp,

reply 29

I only realized once I had posted that I had posted in the wrong forum. I had had this forum open in another tab. I was surprised myself to find my thread here. I wanted this to be in "Wishlists". Since I found my thread using the "My Posts" button, I didnt even realize this post was in Sneak Peeks until much later.

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I agree with goodgimp. "FE Sneak Peeks" totally sounds like only Stardock employees/developers should be able to post new threads.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 28

Quoting Lord Xia, reply 25 Not the random weak farmers with unpronounceable names in WoM.

Hey, the random name generator was a pretty neat technology.

Replacing with a human, even if he is a fantasy author, still reminds me that it's not a computer generated name.

As much as I happily await the robot/computer ruled dystopia in our near future we have waiting for us(unless that John Connor fucks it up), I still prefer people, places and things in a fantasy world to be named by a real human fantasy author. That's actually a feature I am looking forward to.

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I am going to use the random name generator from WoM to name my firstborn. I plan to sneak it into the prenup.

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Champion is indeed a problematic case in Elemental Game. First, if they are too strong, they can become a one man army, then if they are weak, then they are pointless. Plus, to make the purpose of champion to become a pure magic user will make FE the Heroes Might & Magic clone (so why put the champion as a unit in battle if his / her role in battle is only to cast magic spell? At the end, they will become the same general as HOMM heroes - not a bad idea, but FE should be a unique entity isn't it?).

So, what if we make two phase of champion in the game. The champion as a human and the champion of demi god. At the start of the game, every champion will be considered as human / creature. They will have limited level (Say level 5 or 6 depending on the balance). Then, when they go to a journey and find something important or rare, they have a chance to become a demi god / god themselves. As a god, they can become a one man army without any logic violation (well, they are demi god or god after all) But, to reach the god status, there are a lot of thing that the player must do (and perhap to make some sacrifice to do so), so in the end, a player (or an AI) can reach a demi god status, but sometime not.

A demi god is not a god like creature who will make you an instant win (well, they are, if you let the AI god to reach very high level). The different between demi god and a standard champion is their level limit. So, as long as a demi god still at a low level unit, you can kill them just like you kill another champion. So, when you find that an AI has a demi god among them, you must find and chase (and kill the champion). They won't die, like the other champion, but they will lost their godly status if they are died. In this case, unique equipment like stealth / invisibility will become very important, as you and AI will need them to chase and kill the enemy demi god at far behind the enemy line.

I got this idea from the baldur's gate 2 PC game (forgotten realm ver. 2.0) where they limit your level to 18, and consider that level beyond 18 as a demi god level. Well, maybe this idea is workable. I dunno, I hope it can help.

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Quoting Brainsucker,

reply 34

First, if they are too strong, they can become a one man army

They are supposed to be able to become a one man army. Think Master of Magic.

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I believe a prenup is a bad plan... and do you really want the remainder of your life to be plagued by complaints from your ever loving spouse? You are braver than I if you do.

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If the only way to use the RNG to name your firstborn was a prenup, you would too.

But seriously, in certain states you need a prenup to counteract some of the ridiculous marriage laws. To me it is a political statement. I would want to sneak some hilarious things in there though. Like, we would also use the RNG to name the fridge. And Thursdays would be cartwheel day. I just think it would make marriage more fun.

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