Fallen Enchantress- Magic

By on July 21, 2011 10:33:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Derek Paxton

Join Date 03/2003
+173

 

                One of the three focuses for Fallen Enchantress is Magic.  We want the spells to be unique, to feel like casters with enough mana can change the world.  We want magic to fill the game, all the sovereigns start with spells though some like Procipinee are better spell casters than Verga.  As in Master of Magic you can choose your sovereigns proficiency with the various magic types when you create them.

 

 

                I’ve attached a PDF of the spells with this post.  It includes the normal spells the player can cast, it doesn’t include spell abilities of creatures, spell like abilities granted by equipment and some other special abilities in the game.

                I’d like to give a special thanks both to Unacomn for suggesting the Shadow World spell and NuclearNeumann for suggesting the Blood Curse spell.  They are fun spells to play with.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

  I Removed the spell PDF as it is almost a year old and woefully out of date.  New spells have been added and even more are coming.  check out out dev journal on spells here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ArdQVqLHsI&feature=youtu.be

 

- Derek 4/11/2012

 

 

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July 24, 2011 8:34:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think the spells are looking great and i love the idea of changing life shards into death shards and death shards into life shards. Perhaps it would be better to have less quest spells and more research spells. That would make adventuring more useful and every game more unique.

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July 24, 2011 10:05:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting luketan,
* You can see how MOM's spell system was planned, there had 4 levels (Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare), and for each level they tried to put at least one spell in the following categories Summoning/city enchantment/Create enchantment/Global Enchantment/Combat Enchantment/Special . They differentiated each Realm of magic by having more or less in each category so for example, Chaos had more Combat enchantments (As many as 5 per level), Nature had more summonings (including 3 for highest level), Life has the fewest summons but the most or strongest creature enchantments etc

That's the crux of a good magic spell list.

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July 24, 2011 11:12:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting StevenAus,
I think the way spells are presented in the PDF, it seems that FE is more an expansion rather than a new game, at least in terms of magic.

Of course it looks like an expansion, it is an expansion. This "it's a whole new game" stuff is just marketing. You don't make a whole new game by starting with an existing game and improving it. That's pretty much the textbook definition of expansion.

 

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July 24, 2011 1:15:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Really discouraging to me to hear all the complaining, and I am not even on the dev team.   I don't necessarily disagree with the desire to have more spells, and in fact I would love to contribute to creating those spells (with Murteas' Grimoire or something simiiar), but the way people are demanding and even predicting a complete failure at this point is ridiculous. 

Give feedback, and suggest spells, encourage, and give advice - don't berate, belittle or predict failure it is just not helpful.   

I and others are trying to get the spell xml so we can see what is possible with the engine, if not earlier then I will do it when we get the beta, and then we'll see what is possible.

I'm not suggesting people just be happy, but at least think what it would be like for someone to read your post who is working on the product, is your post more likely to encourage them to do better or discourage them and make them feel like it isn't worth the effort.  Take a big breath, and recognize that FE is a process (as any stardock game is), and they will get better, they do in fact listen to people, but a well constructed post with specific ideas is more helpful, than a post which says "epic fail, these spells aren't as good as MoM, AoW2, etc."

I love the post earlier which gave a spider spell book, in fact I would love to look at implementing it as soon as possible, just because someone gave a good idea, and wasn't demanding about it.  

 

I guess maybe I don't fit the attitude of the forum anymore.  

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July 24, 2011 1:15:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm just surprised stats such as intelligence or Charisma are not going to have effects on the spells. It makes you wonder what type of effects these stats will have at all on the game.

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July 24, 2011 2:30:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like the ele-mantle 'group' of spells.  The art is iconic and they have a nice variation in effects.  The nature cloak is able to increase defense against damage types which looks interesting and shows some great potential for making buffs and debuffs, such as traking -3 to water spell resist (take more damage) and +3 to fire spell resist (take less damage).  Could damage/to hit be modified by the type of creature attacking?  Could a spell effect diferent creature types differently, such as boosting one type and giving a penalty to another?  Could a spell make it so a target could absorb damage of one type but take more from another or others?  So a mana bubble that makes the target immune to magic damage but has some negative effect like reduced evade vs. arrows (missile weapons) and reduced accuracy with attacks due to the obscuring effect of the bubble. 

If a tactical tile can be turned into impassable except to creatures with flying/burrowing (and may reduce effectiveness of ranged attacks passing thrue the tile) you could create an ice wall on the map where each section has a given amount of health (+x per water shard) say 100 hp.  The wall could loose power per turn (ie 10 hp per turn -1 per water shard) where each peice gets weaker the longer it persists.  By it having HP it also allows units to attack it to bring it down faster or reinforce it by casting the spell in the same area again (adding HP to the existing pieces).  You may then have those pieces take more damage from say fire and much less or none from water (or cause it to absorb it as negative damage/ healing).  The AI would have to be able to determine or choose if it should go thru the wall or around it.

Overall there looks to be many more oportunities to create a larger variety of spell effects than in WoM.

I think the stats probably do have an effect on the spells, just that they aren't listed in the descriptions as that is more on the mechanical side of things (which may even still be in a state of flux).  Although it could be neat to have a spell function determined off of a different stat or a combination.  Say have one spell that changes the stat reference from INT to STR for the duration of a battle or for the next spell (probably with some sort of upkeep per turn or something). Or you get a charisma boost for a season (to make hiring or diplomacy more effective). Or something like a 'battle banter' spell that gives you a to hit bonus based off of your charisma.

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July 24, 2011 5:57:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree completely with Murteas, just because they did not include info like int bonus to damage it does not mean it isen't there, they just are not giving us all the info into the engine at the moment. It is supposed to be a teaser, so give them the benefitu of the doubt, treat the dev's with some respect. After all they do deserve it. They are the one's making the game, not you. yes yes, you are the one buying it but that is not the point, they put the work into it and you are the one enjoying it.

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July 24, 2011 6:48:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, I guess it is that old expectation/entitlement thing, one which is reasonable, one which probably isn't.  But my two posts recently (97 and 100) were not unequivocally negative.  So if it sounded unduly negative, I'd like to say that I still am looking forward to FE, however I was expressing an emotional response more than anything else.  And I agree that the current spell list is a work in progress.

Also, if the AI can effectively use the spells on the list, that would be a significant improvement over MoM , which had cool spells, but the AI was very weak.

Best regards,
Steven.

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July 24, 2011 11:35:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Edwin99,

Quoting Vordrak, reply 781. For example a spider themed book...

Spider Themed Spell Book - Excellent Idea - Discovered by Quest - 2 to 4 spells per level

Primary Focus: Tactical Spells

17 Spells - 13 tactical, 2 strategic, 2 city enchantment, 1 Enchantment

"In ages past there was a titan that was the master of all giant spiders. It is said that their exists a tome that instructs one in the magic of this titan and how he controlled his creations. Legends say that this tome can be found deep in a forest guarded by the spiders spawned by his creations. Defeat these guardians, retrieve the tome and decipher its writings to know the secrets of the Spider Titan."

Note: Only characters of high intelligence can decipher all the writings within this tome.

Level 1 - Requires Intelligence 14


1. Repel Spiders (tactical - Level 1) - Spiders must resist to initiate an attack against a unit with this enchantment.
2. Spider Spit (tactical - Level 1) - Shoots a stream of poison at a target. Target must resist or suffer 2 pts of damage per turn. Can be negated by Life: Cure Poison Spell.
3. Spider Climb (tactical - Level 1) - targeted unit receives a +5 bonus to dodge when fighting from or defending in a forest tile as they can freely climb trees. Negates bonus of defensive city walls for the enemy unit due to targeted unit's ability to climb city walls.

Level 2 - Requires Intelligence 16


4. Web (Tactical - Level 2) - Unit can't move or attack until it breaks free. Excellent for use against archers and catapults.
5. Summon Giant Spiders (Tactical - Level 2) - Summons a unit of giant spiders (can be cast multiple times during a battle)
6. Dispel Web (Tactical - Level 2) - Dispels Web and Webwall.

Level 3 - Requires Intelligence 18


7. Summon Poisonous Spiders (Tactical - Level 3) - Summons a unit of poisonous spiders  (can be cast multiple times during a battle)
8. Webwall (tactical - Tactical Level 3) - creatues a wall of webbing. Units that enter can't move unless they resist. Can be destroyed by fire spells.
9. Mass Spider Climb (tactical - Level 3) - all units receive a +5 bonus to dodge when fighting from or defending in a forest tile as they can easily climb trees. Negates bonus of defensive city walls for the enemy due to targeted units' ability to climb city walls.

Level 4 - Requires Intelligence 20


10. Spider Plague (Tactical) - summons a horde of giant spiders against a targeted unit, forcing them to fight to move.
11. Spider Shape (Enchantment) - transforms a sovereign or champion into a half-human / half spider creature. +2 bonus to movement, -6 penalty to charisma.
12. Spider Nest (Tactical) - raises a 2x2 insect mound upon the battlefield. It continuously spawns giant poisonous spiders that attack all units; friend or foe, until the mound is destroyed (100hp) or the battle ends. Strategy: Cast Spider Nest, then cast Repel Spiders upon your units so that these spiders only attack enemy units.
13. Charm Spiders (Tactical) - Targeted spider unit becomes a friendly unit for 1 turn per caster level
14. Sticky Walls (City Enchantment) - City walls are covered by sticky spider webbing that reduces movement of attackers by 1.

Level 5 - Requires Intelligence 22


15. Summon Spider Demon (tactical - Level 5) - summons a humongous giant spider - Level 5 - that is 100% AI controlled.
16. Spider Portal (strategic - Level 5) - creates a gate to another plane. Until it is destroyed it allows a stream of humongous Spider demons to enter the world of elemenetal. These spider demons attack all - friend or foe - creatures they encounter
17. Guardian Spider Demon (City Enchantment) - A humongous giant spider guardian is awakened when the city is attacked. This spider consumes 1 population per turn when the city is not under attack. The strength of the spider does not appear in defender's stats until the city is attacked.

Giant Spider Types and Battle Tactics

Spiders are insects and do not make morale checks, they attack until they are dead. Spiders are immune to the effect of web spells (Web, Web Wall, Sticky Walls).

01. Giant Spiders

02. Poisonous Spiders - the bite of these spiders are poisonous and cause and additional +1hp of damage per turn.

03. Web Casters - These huge spiders cast a web spell at targeted unit before attacking. A webbed unit can't move unless it resists and suffers a penalty to its attack and dodge ratings.

04. Spider Demon - Summoned from the planes of the Titans these spiders are deadly, are as large as a house, tower over mortal men and are hard to kill (200+ hit points). They can cast a web spell that ensnares units. Taking orders from no one (100% AI controlled) these spiders will attack the last creature that attacked them.

 

I really like the idea of that.  Great flavour and it would really make the game come alive for me.

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July 24, 2011 11:50:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Murteas,
Really discouraging to me to hear all the complaining, and I am not even on the dev team.   I don't necessarily disagree with the desire to have more spells, and in fact I would love to contribute to creating those spells (with Murteas' Grimoire or something simiiar), but the way people are demanding and even predicting a complete failure at this point is ridiculous. 

Give feedback, and suggest spells, encourage, and give advice - don't berate, belittle or predict failure it is just not helpful.   

I and others are trying to get the spell xml so we can see what is possible with the engine, if not earlier then I will do it when we get the beta, and then we'll see what is possible.

I'm not suggesting people just be happy, but at least think what it would be like for someone to read your post who is working on the product, is your post more likely to encourage them to do better or discourage them and make them feel like it isn't worth the effort.  Take a big breath, and recognize that FE is a process (as any stardock game is), and they will get better, they do in fact listen to people, but a well constructed post with specific ideas is more helpful, than a post which says "epic fail, these spells aren't as good as MoM, AoW2, etc."

I love the post earlier which gave a spider spell book, in fact I would love to look at implementing it as soon as possible, just because someone gave a good idea, and wasn't demanding about it.  

 

I guess maybe I don't fit the attitude of the forum anymore.  

Spot on. It is getting rather sickening to hear all this crap.

The demandbots are indeed out in force.

Be constructive or just don't bother to post.

 

 

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July 25, 2011 12:13:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Glowing_Ember,
I agree completely with Murteas, just because they did not include info like int bonus to damage it does not mean it isen't there, they just are not giving us all the info into the engine at the moment. It is supposed to be a teaser, so give them the benefitu of the doubt, treat the dev's with some respect. After all they do deserve it. They are the one's making the game, not you. yes yes, you are the one buying it but that is not the point, they put the work into it and you are the one enjoying it.

Well, since I was the only guy wondering about acuity stats having effects on spells, I am going to guess this was directed at me. I am really surprised that you found my question about int affecting spells disrespectful to the dev team. It was just a question about the mechanics of the game.

I feel like I went back in time and I am dealing with all the WOM beta fanboys all over again. Maybe I am the real fan boy, because after the game bombed, they all disappeared and I am still here...

 

 

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July 25, 2011 12:24:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm sorry if i came across that way. All i meant was that this dev post is a hint of things to come, i didn't think it was the final copy of what things were like. Maybe they just didnt want to tell us the int bonuses to spells because it wasn't finalized yet. I meant no disrespect. I too am curious about how stats affect spells and how spells affects stats and i can't wait to hear about it when the team is willing to share.

I guess i am coming from the perspective that the dev team can only provide a limited amount of info in the forum since they have to save a lot of it for marketting. But i am not using that as an excuse for coming across as rude, i simply did not mean to do that.

 

EDIT: fixed typos

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July 25, 2011 12:30:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Glowing_Ember,
I'm sorry if i came across that way. All i meant was that this dev post is a hint of things to come, i didn't think it was the final copy of what things were like. Maybe they just didnt want to tell us the int bonuses to spells because it wasn't finalized yet. I meant no disrespect. I too am curious about how stats affect spells and how spells affects stats and i can't wait to hear about it when the team is willing to share.

I guess i am coming from the perspective that the dev team can only provide a limited amount of info in the forum since they have to save a lot of it for marketting. But i am not using that as an excuse for coming across as rude, i simply did not mean to do that.

 

EDIT: fixed typos

 

Right now I am thinking they might not. Look at the damage spells for instance. The bonus for shards does not leave much bonus for acuity stats, unless the acuity stats overpower the shard bonuses. A lot of the spells have an effect such as 2 (+1 for additional shards) or damage spells with 8 damage (+4 for additional shards). It would be very difficult to fit Int or another stat into the equation unless those stats are going to be more important than holding shards.

My guess is that if Intelligence, Charisma or other stats are going to have an effect on spells, the system will have to be reworked a bit. At the moment, it looks like it was created without stats in mind. Besides that little caveat, I love the spell book.

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July 25, 2011 1:06:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Just wanted to point out an often overlooked but important detail.

 

WMD spells do have some checks making them somewhat less effective and more strategic in this game by the way cities mechanics are laid out.  Because each square is only a small part of a very large city, you'd have to destroy it piece by piece or resort to using a super spell like volcano.  So every time I sink/raise the land I would only destroy X squares of buildings from the targeted city per cast.

Example: Create Mountain would wreck a specific area of buildings leaving it completely uninhabitable but not the whole city while earthquake would randomly level it in one hit waiting to be rebuilt.

Some very clever ideas at work here. 

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July 25, 2011 2:33:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting jshores,

Right now I am thinking they might not. Look at the damage spells for instance. The bonus for shards does not leave much bonus for acuity stats, unless the acuity stats overpower the shard bonuses. A lot of the spells have an effect such as 2 (+1 for additional shards) or damage spells with 8 damage (+4 for additional shards). It would be very difficult to fit Int or another stat into the equation unless those stats are going to be more important than holding shards.

My guess is that if Intelligence, Charisma or other stats are going to have an effect on spells, the system will have to be reworked a bit. At the moment, it looks like it was created without stats in mind. Besides that little caveat, I love the spell book.

I guess / hope that Int will determine the chance to hit with a spell, because many spell descriptions mention that the spell resistance reduces the effect.

The description of Summon Ice Elemental says that it has only level 2, but the other elementals have level 4. Is that a bug?

I think all spells should be affected by shards. Growth could have an effect of 30 % + 10 % per life shard and Tremor could have a duration of 1 turn + 1 turn per 3 earth shards.

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July 25, 2011 2:58:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Murteas,

I'm not suggesting people just be happy, but at least think what it would be like for someone to read your post who is working on the product, is your post more likely to encourage them to do better or discourage them and make them feel like it isn't worth the effort.
Frustration is legit even on the customers' part. After all we were all more or less "lured" here by the whole "MoM successor" spin - something that came from the developers and not from the audience, I remind you.

It is kind of frustrating to me to have to acknowledge that -no matter what- there seems to be no way of getting, some 20 years later, a game with the kind of variety that MoM had. Just consider that MoM had, right from the start (no need for an expansion, let alone two!) all the spells it needed, including a magical items crafting spell, all the units it needed, including flying units, all the races and heroes it needed, dimensional traveling, and everything else.

As of 2011, things like these are too much to ask, for some reason. That *is* frustrating to me. Well, we still have MoM anyway. I must force myself to re-adapt to the graphics and the interface and remove the need for a new game...

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July 25, 2011 5:42:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is kinda what I feel.  I'll still probably enjoy FE, but at least "on the surface" it could have a more diverse spell list.  However if the AI can use all the spells in the game, that would be a big improvement on MoM, but when solely comparing the diversity of spells/races/abilities, MoM is still ahead.  It will be interesting to see if the AI can effectively use the spells it has to use in FE, AI is one area that *can* be improved from MoM if done right.

Best regards,
Steven.

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July 25, 2011 5:52:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting jshores,

Well, since I was the only guy wondering about acuity stats having effects on spells, I am going to guess this was directed at me. I am really surprised that you found my question about int affecting spells disrespectful to the dev team. It was just a question about the mechanics of the game.

I feel like I went back in time and I am dealing with all the WOM beta fanboys all over again. Maybe I am the real fan boy, because after the game bombed, they all disappeared and I am still here...
 

You're not the only one, or the first one for that matter.

I was also thinking the same thing with one or two fanboys coming out and saying what amounts to "praise it or GTFO." That was exactly what happened when people started saying WoM wasn't ready for release, and got jumped on by both the community AND Stardock for it. Of course, said people were entirely correct.

This thread has actually only been negative if your idea of negative is anything other then praise. It's not a trollish "you suck" thread, most of the issues have been well explained and there's already great examples from past games of what people are looking for. If the list is too short and the spells don't feel powerful enough? That's entirely valid feedback.

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July 25, 2011 6:01:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree.

Best regards,
Steven.

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July 25, 2011 9:10:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@Luketan: If everybody is comparing WoM and especially FE to MoM it's because it's the devs first goal I believe to make a game that can call itself a dign successor of MoM (which is not easy, numbers have tried and they all failed ! AoW 2 was still the closest from MoM but it was still lacking what MoM had in spells).

+ I'd like to add that Derek said it himself, that they're trying to get the game as closer to MoM as they can.

Even though MoM is so old, he's still among the best turned based strategy game ever made and with all the technology of these days, nobody can compete with a title over 10 years old ? Maybe even 20, if not, close enough. MoM was 1993 I believe or 1994, I can't remember.

With that, each game was truly unique and there were so many combination possible that the replayability was really high.

The best way to compete with MoM IMHO is to copy / paste their spell list (or most of them) and add some new original ones... but again, since MoM is still under license (I believe) it's something that might be hard. But on another hand, most of MoM spells are found in role playing books (PnP) so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to take them I guess. But ya, I don't know the implication of copying MoM spells from a copyright point of view even if those are seen everywhere.

Compete with MoM is far from being easy, the devs chosed a difficult path knowing how criticized they will be for every single step they make but knowing how many people are still fan of MoM and that still new players get addicted to MoM, I think that it would be really rewarding for them if they succeed.

Now the devs have made a fantastics work with the game, the tactical combat, the customisation, heroes /mercs, the cities, dynasties, the world, the monsters, the events ... everything feel awesome but the magic system is their biggest challenge now and the part of the game that will be the most criticized.

I think that WoM magic system is already in place and hard to modify to reach that level but since FE is started from scratch or almost, there is still hope. It's by listening to our (violent) critics that they will make a game that will be remembered as the true successor of MoM.

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July 25, 2011 9:38:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

One suggestion: have some spells increase their effect when you have a higher level in the appropriate school(s) of magic.

For exemple you could have a level 2 area spell whose radius increase if your're level 4.

Resistable spells could also (if they are not already) be harder to resist when cast by a high level mage (once again I'm talking on magic level in the school, not chamion levels)

 

For multi-schools spells, the effect might be different depending on the school levels : one could increase the duration of a debuff spell, and the other the area of effect.

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July 25, 2011 10:04:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I must say I am mildly disappointed (not by the art, which I liked), possibly because I had very high expectations. Here my comments.

The things I liked

1)      There are tactical spells, strategic spells, universal spells, city spells, enchantments. This is all very good! – except that World spells are mostly missing L

2)      One cannot have both Life and Death magic. This makes sense and adds an interesting specificity to the choice between Kingdoms and Empires

3)      I appreciated the nice pdf document!

4)      Quest spells are a nice idea – within certain limits, see point 3 below

5)      Combined-school spells are a very cool idea

6)      Some spells are quite innovative: growth and shrink for example, I like them!

Something that could be improved

1) More spells: A game like HoMM V could live with just 2/3 spells per magic realm per level only because the game focuses mainly on tactical spells. In a MoM-like game, as developers have rightfully done, there are tactical, strategic, enchantment, city-spells,  so a much higher number of spells is required;

2) Broader effect spells: Here again MoM is a good example (sorry folks, but it's true). Every realm had several World spells, and they were among the nicest. This was also a very unique way that magic could influence the world. Some suggestions: make a spell that increases the regenerative power of one’s troops all over the world (Blessing of Life?). Make one that decreases if for enemy troops (Festering wounds?). Make a spell that decreases the movement of all enemy troops in one’s territory (Dark Fatigue, Guarding Winter…). Make a spell that reveals all shards on the map that are within a certain distance of your territory, and an improved version that shows their type. Please, do make world spells an important piece of spell choices. Also, please make tactical-global spells, i.e. spells that affect all units within a tactical combat. Some examples from MoM: Prayer, Dark Prayer, Call lightning, Blur, Flame strike, Warp Reality, Metal Fires.

3) Randomness in spells is nice, but it should not be overdone imo. I like the fact that every game will be somewhat unique, but I personally like to be able to plan ahead my game to a certain extent. I know you want to avoid that people plan everything ahead and end up always playing in the same way, but using random events and spells is only one way to achieve this, the other being to design the game – and the spell system in particular – so that there are many different combinations of strategies that one can choose, all of them interesting, different, and powerful - so that a player wants to try them all. Bottom line: when choosing how to specialize in magic, I think one should have a pretty good idea of what one is likely to get – beyond this, some randomness is nice to have.

4) minor point: I believe champion should be able to cast spells only within a given range. I can't imagine a champion casting a Tornado on the other side of the map, while a Sovreign sitting in the capital... well, it's a different story

Another idea for a spell: "Curse Shard" -> can be cast on shards owned by opponents and reduces the amount of mana that the shard generates

All this said, I am sure it is a very challenging task to create a spell system that fulfills all our expectations and is a balanced part of the game. So, good luck! I’d be happy to contribute with suggestions.

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July 25, 2011 10:08:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I read about two problems in this forum, and I thought of two possible solutions. Hope they may help!

The problem of random shards at the beginning of the game is a significant problem. Here is what I suggest to solve the issue: make two types of shards, large shards and small shards, with the former type giving more mana and improving spells to a larger extent. Then, allow players to choose 2 small shards they can have close to their capital at the start of the game. This way you still keep randomness , but make sure that players have at least some shards of the magic schools they chose at the beginning (you may give players an option to have a third small shard during the character creation phase). This way, you could also remove the fact that sovereigns produce mana, which may or may not make sense.

The problem that some player could avoid magic during most of the game and pile up mana to then cast 13 volcanos in the final stage may have some foundation. A possible solution would be to make Shards useful not just for magic, but also for other things in the game: i.e. one could build a mystic laboratory on a shard instead of a temple in order to use the power of a shard to increase research. Or, one could build a gate to accrue summoning points in order to then summon creatures from that magic realm. This way, 1) players who choose not to focus on magic will still find shards useful, and 2) piling up mana would now be an option that comes at the cost of not using shards for something else. Another possible solution would be to make Temples cost a significant amount of money, or production… every turn, so that if you want to accrue mana every turn you have to sacrifice some other resource every turn.

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July 25, 2011 10:30:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting marionesi,
The problem that some player could avoid magic during most of the game and pile up mana to then cast 13 volcanos in the final stage may have some foundation. A possible solution would be to make Shards useful not just for magic, but also for other things in the game: i.e. one could build a mystic laboratory on a shard instead of a temple in order to use the power of a shard to increase research. Or, one could build a gate to accrue summoning points in order to then summon creatures from that magic realm. This way, 1) players who choose not to focus on magic will still find shards useful, and 2) piling up mana would now be an option that comes at the cost of not using shards for something else. Another possible solution would be to make Temples cost a significant amount of money, or production… every turn, so that if you want to accrue mana every turn you have to sacrifice some other resource every turn.

 

I do like the idea of the mystic laboratory to use the shard another way; however, that being said.

Isn't stock piling mana just a game strategy---to go through the game without using magic until the end when you have bigger and badder spells.  I do that in MoM and Elemental now.  What is the point of summoning a pair of spiders if I am researching a Great Wyrm.  I just don't want to spend the mana or the upkeep on a spiders or even a stone giant when I have bigger stuff coming (colossus).

It is some what maniacal to save up for 13 volcanoes, but let it a warning to the rest of Elemental.  If you rise up against me, I will not only destroy your people and cities, but I will destroy the very land you walk on---(Insert crazy evil laugh here).

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July 25, 2011 10:32:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting marionesi,
Another idea for a spell: "Curse Shard" -> can be cast on shards owned by opponents and reduces the amount of mana that the shard generates

Or instead of reducing amount of mana that it generates, the curse can instead be applied against the shard's city in such a way that overall production of the city is effected negatively (e.g., plague, poisoned food, civilian deaths, sovereign offspring deaths, etc).

-.-

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