A Question for You, FrogBrad...

By on June 22, 2011 6:38:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

DevildogFF

Join Date 03/2010
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I tried searching for the answer to this by reading your posts, but could not find one, and my curiosity is killing me. Why, if Fallen Enchantress REALLY is a much better product than WOM, do you not begin incorporating some of the better mechanics/graphics/UI from FE in to WOM? From what's been said by Derek, even just adding FE's new UI would be a significant improvement. This would be obvious, easy way to improve the experience, no?
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June 22, 2011 6:42:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That might be more difficult then it sounds, and might be a waste of resources that are being spent on FE.

 

Also, while SD is giving away copies of FE to the WOM folks, they do want to sell some copies of FE but not giving away FE features on WOM.  WOM will likely go to bargain bin prices once FE is out.

 

 

 

 

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June 23, 2011 12:52:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why, if *car A* REALLY is a much better car than *car B*, do you not begin incorporating some of the better engine/interior/transition parts into *car B*?

See how stupid that sounds?

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June 23, 2011 1:43:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

better analogy.

 

I own a sedan. it gets me and my friends from point A to point B.

 

My mother owns a van. it gets her, and her work supplies from point A to point B.

 

Both are vehicles, but serve different functions. Neither is "better".

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June 23, 2011 1:49:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Even better analogy.

I like blondes. But I also like redheads... and brunettes.

Variety is the spice of life! 

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June 23, 2011 2:01:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Even better one... if two trains are heading towards each other and train A is going 50 mph and train B is going 65 mph, how fast will train B going when they crash?

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June 23, 2011 5:54:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Teslacrashed,
better analogy.

 

I own a sedan. it gets me and my friends from point A to point B.

 

My mother owns a van. it gets her, and her work supplies from point A to point B.

 

Both are vehicles, but serve different functions. Neither is "better".

You have car A, which is a 2010 model year car. I own car B, which is a 2011 model year version of the same car and features a host of improvements. Why don't they reissue the 2010 version with all the new stuff?

The answer is the same as why they don't backport everything new in IE 9 to IE 8, or from FE to WoM: it's a colossal waste of developer time that's better spent on actually building the new version. I mean honestly people, do you REALLY want developers spending time backporting stuff or on building newer/better things for FE?

The goal here is to get the best game possible, wasting time backporting doesn't accomplish that.

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June 23, 2011 6:04:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

wouldn't be surprised to see some fe stuff in wom at a later date if fe works out. that is if those things fit in with wom.

 

stuff like champs from quests or some such for example... think i saw fb mention that

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June 23, 2011 7:17:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting alaknebs,
wouldn't be surprised to see some fe stuff in wom at a later date if fe works out. that is if those things fit in with wom.

 

stuff like champs from quests or some such for example... think i saw fb mention that

He also said he found it hard to work on WoM given how much better FE is, and that he doesn't expect a lot of demand for WoM after we get FE.

If FE works out, there's no reason to backport stuff to WoM because people will be playing FE. It'd make more sense to take that effort and put it into improving FE even more, or building on it for whatever game #3 is. And if FE doesn't work out, I don't think the franchise survives.

FE is a really important release to get right.

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June 23, 2011 11:42:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tridus,


If FE works out, there's no reason to backport stuff to WoM because people will be playing FE. It'd make more sense to take that effort and put it into improving FE even more, or building on it for whatever game #3 is. And if FE doesn't work out, I don't think the franchise survives.

FE is a really important release to get right.

 

We've heard about a better world (dev journal), better champions (dev journal), better tactical battle (dev journal?), and a better magic system (no dev journal yet), but we haven't heard about yet is unique factions.  I fear this is going to be the major epic fail in FE.  If we just end up with the same factions who SD think are unique because they get a different starting tech, then the critics and this forum are going to go ape shiz on FE.

Where's Jon Shafer when you need him?  For starters, each faction could have a Civ-like unique unit, unique building, and unique bonus.  To borrow from MOM, each faction could be limited on the type of magic they can use (i.e. 10 books of earth magic vs. 5 books of fire and 5 books of air magic)... remember that in MOM?  Does size matter?  How about human-sized vs. large races?  Does speed matter?  How about slow giants vs. fast weaklings?  Does intelligence matter?  How about stupid brutes vs. intelligent diplomats?

What else would we have to complain about if they create unique factions in addition to the positive steps they're taking listed above?

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June 23, 2011 12:13:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,



Quoting Tridus,
reply 8

Where's Jon Shafer when you need him?  For starters, each faction could have a Civ-like unique unit, unique building, and unique bonus.  To borrow from MOM, each faction could be limited on the type of magic they can use (i.e. 10 books of earth magic vs. 5 books of fire and 5 books of air magic)... remember that in MOM?  Does size matter?  How about human-sized vs. large races?  Does speed matter?  How about slow giants vs. fast weaklings?  Does intelligence matter?  How about stupid brutes vs. intelligent diplomats?

This, precisely.

One of the unique things about playing a fantasy strategy game is that you get to pull in units from an imaginary world, both from summoning, as well as from constructing.  AOW and MOM both have this done well; I could choose to summon units to scout, or build a base unit to scout, or cast a magic spell to reveal the FOW.  My concern for FE is that we'll still be at "generic biped with 4 levels of attack (stick, staff, sword, hammer) and 3 levels of defense (cloth, leather, plate).  I realize that we sort of get this in the diplomacy tree, but I believe that's broken.  If I research that, I don't want a random chance to have unlikely friends (based upon where they appear in the world), I want my friends, godamit.  I paid for them, they're MY friends. 

Let me have some capability to put together mixed tactics units in a stack that has a fantasy feel.

I should, without too much research, be able to field a stack of a couple of spiders, a couple of weak archers, and some first line grunts with some okay armor.

Oh, and since I'm posting, for the love of Dog, please give me a way to build a single, 0 defense, 0 offense scout by turn 3.  Don't make me wait to research and build; I should have scouts out the door in the first couple of turns, who are not champions or soveriegns.

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June 23, 2011 1:15:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,

We've heard about a better world (dev journal), better champions (dev journal), better tactical battle (dev journal?), and a better magic system (no dev journal yet), but we haven't heard about yet is unique factions.  I fear this is going to be the major epic fail in FE.  If we just end up with the same factions who SD think are unique because they get a different starting tech, then the critics and this forum are going to go ape shiz on FE.

The factions are probably out of scope at this point due to time constraints. If it was in, we'd probably have heard about it by now.

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June 23, 2011 3:46:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Winnihym,

Oh, and since I'm posting, for the love of Dog, please give me a way to build a single, 0 defense, 0 offense scout by turn 3.  Don't make me wait to research and build; I should have scouts out the door in the first couple of turns, who are not champions or soveriegns.

 

That's... a really good point, actually.  Be good to be able to disband the unit back to population as well (while in a city).

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June 23, 2011 4:06:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't think it's like any of those analogies, really. I'm just saying that they should give WOM some of what makes FE a better game. I'm not saying ALL of it, just the things like UI, champions, world variety, etc. That shouldn't be THAT hard to do and I wouldn't see it do anything but make the game BETTER. 

 

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June 23, 2011 4:17:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

cause if you mix the blue and the red you end up with purple.

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June 23, 2011 4:43:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DevildogFF,
I don't think it's like any of those analogies, really. I'm just saying that they should give WOM some of what makes FE a better game. I'm not saying ALL of it, just the things like UI, champions, world variety, etc. That shouldn't be THAT hard to do and I wouldn't see it do anything but make the game BETTER. 

 

Why? The whole point of making FE is that they can work on all this stuff in a proper dev cycle. What reason is there to waste effort backporting it into the old game, particularly when so many people are being given a free copy of FE?

Are there really people who are going to insist on playing WoM after FE is out, but only if it has FE's improvements backported to it? How does that make any sense at all?

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June 23, 2011 4:59:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why didn't SD take all the 'improvements' of galciv II and galciv III and incorporate them into GalCivI?   Is basically same question as initial post of this thread, yes?

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June 23, 2011 5:52:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This question confuses me. Will FE miss features that WoM currently has? If so, which features are cut? If none are cut, why is this being asked?!

Honsou.

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June 23, 2011 6:17:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

WOM and FE will just have different features. So there will be (ideally) reasons to play either.

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June 23, 2011 6:17:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not going to expect a lot from FE until it can be seen and played. Wind the clock back 18 months and WoM was being talked up with an enormous level of expectation. For me now it is a case of once bitten - twice shy. I hope it is a great game but I think there is too much needed to change to get right. The racial diversity issue, as mentioned earlier in the thread, has not been addressed by the devs at all. God I'm feeling an ominous sense of dejavu.

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June 23, 2011 6:45:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kaihonsou,
This question confuses me. Will FE miss features that WoM currently has? If so, which features are cut? If none are cut, why is this being asked?!


Dynasties are cut, and not everyone who's been around since the beta is entirely happy with the decision. And the cutting 'major' things began before FE was in the picture--the decision to ditch Essence (originally a neat idea for a value that was both a crucial stat for spell-casting units and a very powerful limited resource for spending on spells) still vexes/mystifies some of us.

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June 23, 2011 7:10:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

They are supposed to go in different development directions, and that is the truth of it. Besides, the UI can absolutely not just be copied over, it would take significant efforts.

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June 24, 2011 11:08:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You're all forgetting a basic thing which CAN'T be backported. ShaderModel 3.0.

War of Magic uses ShaderModel 2.0

Fallen Enchantress uses ShaderModel 3.0

 

ShaderModel 2.0 is why War of Magic has the graphics it has.

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June 24, 2011 11:55:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No, I think only OP is forgeting that. If you look at the list of stuff that was mentioned for backporting, it was "I'm not saying ALL of it, just the things like UI, champions, world variety, etc"

Of course if you take those things, you need to also take the engine improvements that were made to support them. You're probably bringing Shader Model 3 as part of that because "world variety" now has shinier SM 3 art that you need to include. All the art has to get backported.

Oh, and the AI has to get backported so that it has some idea of how to use the new champions.

At that point this request really boils down to "please rename FE to WoM."

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June 24, 2011 12:36:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tridus,


At that point this request really boils down to "please rename FE to WoM."

This is what I would do since FE is basically just what our forum had been asking for in EWOM originally. 

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July 1, 2011 12:08:29 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Better analogy:  I have a 1976 Pinto barely runs, The windows won't roll down, AC is no longer running doe to a factory defect. Friend has a brand new 4 Wheel drive Ford Excursion with power windows a bad ass stereo system with free XM radio. And a damn good AC.  So why not add these features to the Pinto?   Why would you just drive the Excursion which is superior in every way.

 

WOM = Pinto

FE = Excursion 

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