[v1.2B Feedback thread]

By on June 10, 2011 5:17:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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The release team went with v1.2b instead of v1.29 but it's the v1.3 beta.

Well? What do you guys think?

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June 10, 2011 11:36:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Frogboy - was the strategic AI updated in this patch?

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June 11, 2011 12:21:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

OK, found how to demolish buildings.

I demolished a monastery and my pop usage went from 485 to 335. 150 population points! In the listing it said this should have cost 30 population points.

I'll try demolishing a few other buildings and see if any others have the same sort of issue.

Found a couple of others...

Inns and Merchants are both supposed to be 10 population cost but are 50.

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June 11, 2011 12:38:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nakisisa,
Somethings I have noticed.
In the pregnant wolf quest/event? you're asked if you'd like to expend 5 essence to help it.  I said yes got two pups but lost spell casting ability on my sovereign.  I had forgotten that while hidden essence is still linked to spell casting ability.  Is it meant to cost you so much for two units?
Nakisisa

I also had this happen.  I found I cound cast spells on the map by opening the spell book, but the cast spell option is gone from Tactical combat.  I hope this wasn't an intended consequence of completing the quest this way unless there's a way to get this ability back.  Imbue champion won't let you cast it on yourself.

Is this a bug or are we missing something?

Other than this I'm liking the changes so far.  Civ Tech seems harder to advance than magic.  Which makes magic a better choice in the beginning except for issue noted above.  

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June 11, 2011 1:20:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Brad - I created a thread here to poll simultaneous tactical combat damage. If you add simultaneous damage and add first strike ability it would go a long way to deepening tactical combat.

P.S. - no ATI Radeon DX errors yet. Crossing my fingers. 

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June 11, 2011 2:36:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Das123,
OK, found how to demolish buildings.

I demolished a monastery and my pop usage went from 485 to 335. 150 population points! In the listing it said this should have cost 30 population points.

I'll try demolishing a few other buildings and see if any others have the same sort of issue.

Found a couple of others...

Inns and Merchants are both supposed to be 10 population cost but are 50.

I thought the buildings become more expensive when you have many of them. May be this is not shown in description yet...

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June 11, 2011 4:44:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Quoting Heavenfall, reply 2 I just straight up DO NOT GET the hit point reduction. It seems completely illogical. Tactical combat should last longer, not shorter, especially considering how easy it is to cheese the AI in tactical. What's the point in having 8 men with 45 health get taken down in a single turn by an enemy 8-man squad with 80 attack? And that's just using bloody boar spears.

http://i.imgur.com/jo0fl.png and that's in a city! They really have only 35 health.

 

I also had a quick look at the events and they seem to be quests prompted on civ or capital city size. I think something that would be fun for these kinds of events is the possibility of removing the ability of users to "not accept" the quest. I.e, events should be possible to be "forced" on the player.

Imagine a quest. It spawns Nefarius, the Dread Dragon. He rampages through the lands, killing your lands and cities. This just randomly happens. But... "Would you like to accept this quest? Y/N?" just breaks the entire concept of events down to "do I want to bother, or am I busy?".

Quests don't require a Y/N.  


 

Heavenfall is referring to the fact that random events, the ones I've seen so far, are actually quest that you can accept or ignore. They're not so much random events as occasional quests that you can chose to not accept.

I was expecting something a bit different, like: "An earthquake just tore the continent in half", or "An eclipse caused all mana sources to fizzle out for the duration", "One of your children has contracted a life threatening plague and will die unless cured in the next 10 turns".

As for the HP drop, it makes the armor rating a lot more important, to the point where I sink everything into armor, and on the battlefield, I just berserk one unit and use it to murder everything while the other stacks defend it. 

Also, a funny thing sort of happened. I had conquer a town right next to another enemy town, and when I destroyed one of the improvements they had in their ZOC, I could build mine on top of it. I did, but it immediately defaulted to their property. 

Also to the also. When you conquer a town, any improvement it has built will continue to extend the multiplier for population consummation,  leading to actually having more people working, assigned to the improvements than the population of your kingdom and that of the conquered town combined. It is annoying. If I'm not mistaken, the population cost increases on a global scale, that's what causes the problem. If it was just local, it would go away.

 

Also to the also also, a bunch of icons are missing from the cloth map, chests, temples, graveyards, a bunch of stuff, and since I play mostly on the cloth map, since after a while the 3D engine stutters a lot, I miss most of them. And some other stuff, like abandoned villages don't have a tile on the 3D engine map.

Alsox4, the Kingdom power counter seems to be working better, I'm actually capable of staying on top of the list, regardless of how many weak units the enemy has. Although, it could be because mine are also all groups, instead of very powerful individuals. 

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June 11, 2011 5:00:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, exactly. Events, in my opinion, would benefit from being "this shit just happened, deal with it" and not just timed quest pop-ups that you can choose to ignore anyway.

It's just a suggestion. It would help make the world a lot more living and therefore interesting. Just to be clear, I wouldn't mind using the quest system to produce events! It's very powerful. I don't want a completely new event system, just an option to not allow the user to ignore an event.

I would suggest a tag in the quest object that goes something like <Undeniable>true</Undeniable>. When this tag is in a quest, the button to deny a quest simply would not appear in the pop-up.

 

 

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June 11, 2011 8:29:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

After a lot more playing, I have to say I am digging the new, much slower pace of the game. You can't race to the top of tree X in 100 turns anymore. For whatever reason, this seems like it gives the AI an easier time to keep up. It makes the game feel a lot more strategic and less "get that one thing then steamroll the entire map". It is definitely a major shift in how the game plays, and I think many will argue that it shouldn't be changed like that, but I absolutely like it. It makes it more like playing Civ and less like playing SC2, turnbased.

I still think units take too long to train, both in the start and at the high-end game. I don't want to spend 30 turns training a staff-wielding unit that will die in 1 hit. 30 turns? That's 7.5 YEARS.

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June 11, 2011 9:20:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

True, but that also makes losing them that much more of a concern.

 This also seems to have caused the AI to shift to quality over quantity, well, at least as far as I got to play before getting to work. They only had about 10 units(in group form) and a few heroes, which is just about what I had until I started using Call to Arms. The AI not spamming poorly designed units to inflate it's ego is a significant improvement.

Next up, I'll try to see how far I can go by using mostly summoned armies. In the older versions I used this a lot, going out with the family on a rampage. But after a few patches, I couldn't find all the giants and whatnot. 

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June 11, 2011 9:56:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like the changes as well. Need to play more though to be sure but here are some things that bug me.

1. In the Dark Concoction event the Rogue Mage didn't cast spells. He attempted to beat me to death.....

2. Heroes start with 5hp but in a few levels I got my sovereign to 27hp. That's a huge difference.

3. Old issue, but armor and weapons are to good. Even just getting equipment and cloth armor makes you monster proof. Every level of armor/weapons shouldn't make you nigh invincible to the level before it. A more gradual increase in armor/weapon effectiveness is needed badly.

Awesome so far though guys, I'm actually very surprised at how much of a difference this patch makes.

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June 11, 2011 10:05:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sadly, in my case, the Rogue Mage didn't get to do a thing. With 5 action points and a bow, both his guards died in one shot, and he got arcane arrowed in the same turn.

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June 11, 2011 11:57:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My sov mystically lost his ability to cast spells after a bunch of turns... 

Edit: Found in the support forum that the wolf quest is bugged.

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June 11, 2011 12:16:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Some more bugs.

1. Houses' food cost is displayed as growing exponentially but it still only actually costs one.

2. Studies aren't increasing in citizen costs the same way as other buildings. I have like eight but they still cost 5.

3. Kingdoms have only two possible group sizes (4 and 8) and they can build both off start.

Also after a quick look it seems to me that the whole increasing specialist cost of unlimited improvements is done entirely internally, and we modders have no way to turn it off, change it, or even look at the calculations.

Very disappointing

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June 11, 2011 2:24:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Seriously, what do the war council and archery ranges do now?

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June 12, 2011 3:48:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Alright, so I finally broke down and played a few hundred turns of the beta this weekend, and I thought I'd share my impressions.

I think that, in general, it's much easier to complain about aspects of the game that we don't like than to highlight those that we do, and Lord knows I've done more than my fair share. So, I want to say, first, that I actually had a great time playing it. All the hard work on your end has is paying off, and I certainly appreciate it. It's not quite to the point where I want to run home after work to squeeze in a few extra turns, but it's definitely a fun, solid game now. Bravo!

Overall, the pacing feels much better. I like that technology is much harder to acquire now. Magic, on the other hand, seems like it is much too easy to get. I had 5+ spells, and up to level 3 magic researched before I even made my first tech discovery. But, since this is easy enough to change on my end, it's not a huge deal.

Performance also seems much much better. Even faster than 1.2. The speed at which units move across the map is a little fast for my tastes, but I think that I'm in the minority here.

I like that I'm not being mobbed by champions now, but maybe the spawn rate is a little too slow? I've yet to see one. This means that all the equipment that I'm finding just gets sold to the town shop.

Random events are nice, but I really wish that they were forced upon us. Right now, they're essentially just extra goodies. I'd also like to see some (or most) of them in the format of: Event X happens. You may then respond with Choice Y or Choice Z, each with benefits and drawbacks.

Still not a fan of the magic system. I know that this wasn't the goal for 1.3, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Another aspect that's moddable, so not really that big of a deal.

I encountered a few bugs that have been previously reported: Abandoned villiages and mines not rendering on the 3d map, loss of spellcasting with the Ebbenwolf event, etc.

Just a few issues/opinions, but overall, the game feels pretty good!

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June 13, 2011 5:49:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have played 2h yesterday. I think, when the pop.thing and growing house/food thing works as intended, when there are more events and the tactical AI is better, then 1.3 is the same big step like 1.1 was. It feels like this is the right direction.

Most of the things are already described by other players in this thread. I don´t have to add something.

I like that I'm not being mobbed by champions now, but maybe the spawn rate is a little too slow?

I like it too. And i´m fine with the spawn rate. In my previous games i always don´t care about building units. All i needed were 4-5 champs. and i ruled the world. No fun!

 

Then with 1.4, an overhaul for factions (more differences) and more special traits/abilitys for champs. and WoM is a 80+ game for me.

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June 13, 2011 6:54:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lantros,
I have played 2h yesterday. I think, when the pop.thing and growing house/food thing works as intended, when there are more events and the tactical AI is better, then 1.3 is the same big step like 1.1 was. It feels like this is the right direction.

Most of the things are already described by other players in this thread. I don´t have to add something.


I like that I'm not being mobbed by champions now, but maybe the spawn rate is a little too slow?

I like it too. And i´m fine with the spawn rate. In my previous games i always don´t care about building units. All i needed were 4-5 champs. and i ruled the world. No fun!

 

Then with 1.4, an overhaul for factions (more differences) and more special traits/abilitys for champs. and WoM is a 80+ game for me.

 

I agree. Once the pop bugs are gone and the AI is spiffed up a bit, we are going to have a good game. On the balance side of things, I would still like to see a smaller increment between armor sets and weapons but thats nit picking at this point.

 

Keep up the good work.

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June 14, 2011 3:48:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ok, a few more hours played.

The low hp of trained units is just silly. I want it to be 100 times as high, then have champions as support units with special abilities. (Can this be modded?)

Tried to focus on magic research. That was stupid... Warfare techs are overpowered imo. Or maybe the others are underpowered.

What still breaks the game for me is the lack of exploration. There's nothing to find other than brown, flat land and maybe an inn that looks exactly like all other inns, and maybe a quest you have done 100 times already. I don't care about the world around me or my kingdom. Zero immersion.

Not sure about city building changes, it doesn't bother me and that's good I guess. I want to fight battles and explore, not manage population.

And why is it that I can play other games like World of Tanks and Kings bounty on my laptop, but not WoM? Sure, I can play on the cloth map but my god that thing is ugly. I set it to lowest settings on lowest resolution, and still units can't move at proper speeds without stuttering. Can we have an option to turn off fancy water and fog of war? I have a feeling they eats my gfx powerz....

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June 14, 2011 3:58:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There's nothing to find other than brown, flat land and maybe an inn that looks exactly like all other inns, and maybe a quest you have done 100 times already. I don't care about the world around me or my kingdom. Zero immersion.

 

Valid statement. I don´t think that this will ever change. I "solved" this problem by not playing large or medium maps anymore. Small map with 3-5 oppenents and you don´t have too much boring land masses.   

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June 14, 2011 4:12:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Are people seeing a massive reduction in world resources? I sort of am. A medium map will have only 2-4 world resources I can build on now.

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June 14, 2011 6:18:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

On a large map, I've found about the same amount of resources, although I'm still playing the same map I started with last week. I'll try a few more soon.

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June 14, 2011 7:30:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
Are people seeing a massive reduction in world resources? I sort of am. A medium map will have only 2-4 world resources I can build on now.

Yes, same here playing on medium. Not sure if I'd call it "massive" but there sure is a reduction.

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June 14, 2011 9:34:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've noticed a general reduction in resources available. It is doubtful to see a city with more than 2.

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June 14, 2011 1:08:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Here's some mod feedback on the event system.

I really think it would be a lot better off if we could use numbers with decimal points in the <TriggerChance> tag. If I do 10 new events, and give them a 1 triggerchance, well... that's almost 10% chance of an event happening every turn! If I do 100 new events, you are very likely to see one happen each turn. So, without being able to use decimal numbers in the field, we are extremely limited in the amount of events we can implement, if we are to avoid the user being spammed with events simply because we wanted to provide a high variety of events.

Either that, or we need some way to make events mutually exclusive, ie event 1 has happened, that means event 2 and 3 cannot happen. Obviously that tag would have to be repeatable, for example I might put 10 events and then have them all be mutually exclusive so only 1 of those events could happen each game.

These changes are needed to allow the event system to provide a varied gameplay, not the same gameplay every playthrough. The system should be more accommodating to a huge amount of events.

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June 14, 2011 4:00:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think there's a good game still potentially in here, but the AI needs to be massively improved, and things need to be balanced out to help the AI, and the bugs/issues with the increasing citizen cost need to be fixed (that last one will be tricky)

 

I think some buildings should be immune to this cost increase- the real thing that needs to be nerfed is research period. 

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