[v1.2B Feedback thread]

By on June 10, 2011 5:17:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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The release team went with v1.2b instead of v1.29 but it's the v1.3 beta.

Well? What do you guys think?

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June 10, 2011 5:22:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It looks just like 1.2 to me.

I thought housing was removed?

I have the option to build huts.

Am I not understanding something?

 

I did notice that Janusk was missing, though.

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June 10, 2011 5:23:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I just straight up DO NOT GET the hit point reduction. It seems completely illogical. Tactical combat should last longer, not shorter, especially considering how easy it is to cheese the AI in tactical. What's the point in having 8 men with 45 health get taken down in a single turn by an enemy 8-man squad with 80 attack? And that's just using bloody boar spears.

http://i.imgur.com/jo0fl.png and that's in a city! They really have only 35 health.

 

I also had a quick look at the events and they seem to be quests prompted on civ or capital city size. I think something that would be fun for these kinds of events is the possibility of removing the ability of users to "not accept" the quest. I.e, events should be possible to be "forced" on the player.

Imagine a quest. It spawns Nefarius, the Dread Dragon. He rampages through the lands, killing your lands and cities. This just randomly happens. But... "Would you like to accept this quest? Y/N?" just breaks the entire concept of events down to "do I want to bother, or am I busy?".

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June 10, 2011 5:31:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I played a little during my lunch break.  I really like finding weapons / armor in goodie huts ( this could probably be toned down a little bit cuz I'm finding way too many weapons / armor ) but this was a refreshing change nonetheless.  Then my game crashed and I had to go back to work... will play more later.

 

 

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June 10, 2011 5:32:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FE removes housing.  

See http://forums.elementalgame.com/409368 for what has changed in v1.2b.

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June 10, 2011 5:33:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
I just straight up DO NOT GET the hit point reduction. It seems completely illogical. Tactical combat should last longer, not shorter, especially considering how easy it is to cheese the AI in tactical. What's the point in having 8 men with 45 health get taken down in a single turn by an enemy 8-man squad with 80 attack? And that's just using bloody boar spears.

http://i.imgur.com/jo0fl.png and that's in a city! They really have only 35 health.

 

I also had a quick look at the events and they seem to be quests prompted on civ or capital city size. I think something that would be fun for these kinds of events is the possibility of removing the ability of users to "not accept" the quest. I.e, events should be possible to be "forced" on the player.

Imagine a quest. It spawns Nefarius, the Dread Dragon. He rampages through the lands, killing your lands and cities. This just randomly happens. But... "Would you like to accept this quest? Y/N?" just breaks the entire concept of events down to "do I want to bother, or am I busy?".

Quests don't require a Y/N.  

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June 10, 2011 5:33:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

With no longer needing a building to train groups of units, I would suggest removing the Squads_Amarian tech. It seems silly to have to research that, which does nothing, to get to company. (Change Forts_Amarian prereq to seiges).

Also, the command post is supposed to decrease training time now. It doesn't. It only costs specialists, -4 gold/turn, and materials.

Same tech thing for Trogs, although their tree is slightly different. You guys always seem to pay less attention to the Empires . The war council still says that its needed to train groups of units. In CoreUnitGroupingTypes, they need to research a tech to train 9 troops? The kingdoms can train 8 troops right off the bat. Is this by design?

The war council also just consumes resources, and does nothing.

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June 10, 2011 5:34:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 2I just straight up DO NOT GET the hit point reduction. It seems completely illogical. Tactical combat should last longer, not shorter, especially considering how easy it is to cheese the AI in tactical. What's the point in having 8 men with 45 health get taken down in a single turn by an enemy 8-man squad with 80 attack? And that's just using bloody boar spears.

http://i.imgur.com/jo0fl.png and that's in a city! They really have only 35 health.

 

I also had a quick look at the events and they seem to be quests prompted on civ or capital city size. I think something that would be fun for these kinds of events is the possibility of removing the ability of users to "not accept" the quest. I.e, events should be possible to be "forced" on the player.

Imagine a quest. It spawns Nefarius, the Dread Dragon. He rampages through the lands, killing your lands and cities. This just randomly happens. But... "Would you like to accept this quest? Y/N?" just breaks the entire concept of events down to "do I want to bother, or am I busy?".

Quests don't require a Y/N.  

Really? If you dont have anything there, it defaults to yes or no.

 

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June 10, 2011 5:38:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


Quests don't require a Y/N.  

I don't understand, every quest in the game I can either accept or deny.

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June 10, 2011 5:38:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have played for a few hours today and I feel these changes show great promise. However I ran into a few things that could use some balance/fixing.

  1. I fought Capitar's wife who had 7 armor. I was using a party (4) of spears (9 attack) and I routinely broke 20+ damage. If there is currently a "bonus" to attack from numbers, i feel it is too high when fighting a single target. After all it doesn't matter if you have hundreds of soldiers, if your fighting 1 person, only so many troops can actually engage that person at a time.
  2. I feel that a training time reduction should be in order. My first unit of soldiers takes 12 turns to train. They are equipped with all padded + the spear. Since we have shifted the minimum unit size to 4, they should have the base 3 training time we used to have when training a single soldiers. I had to sit in my city until i had this unit trained because bandits and wolves lurked outside and I didn't want my city razed.
  3. Combat between squads is a little too viceral right now. I attacked a equivocally armed squad of Capitars and I killed 2 of the 4 soldiers. So when they counter attacked, they did very little damage back. I would solve this by either...

 

  • Raising the individual soldiers health so they do not all get wiped out in the first attack.
  • Have retaliations occur simultaneously. This way when I kill off 2 of their soldiers, they at least get to use them. In our current initiative system, this would at least let the defender inflict some damage if they were one hit killed

I really do enjoy the random events. Got my wife through one. The lack of champions has made the ones i find feel more special.

 

Thanks for releasing before the weekend,

 

Jec

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June 10, 2011 5:39:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
FE removes housing.  

See http://forums.elementalgame.com/409368 for what has changed in v1.2b.

 

DOH!

Fork confusion!!!

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June 10, 2011 5:40:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I forgot to ask, what does the war concil do since it is no longer required for groups?

Same for the archery range.

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June 10, 2011 5:45:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Tactical combat need not last longer, its the AI that needs improvement.

The change in figure/base HP is to bring the game closer to MoM, However in MoM attack and counterattack happen simultaneously between units, so that it doesn't come down to who attacks first.

The Multi-figure design may not work with WoE without taking into account other factors, in MoM single figure units [Like earth elemental] usually have less overall attacking power than multi-figure ones [Like pikemen] but are able to maintain this damage output while Pikemen's damage drop with the death of each figure.

TLDR

MoM figure/hitpoint system is not suitable for a game where pretty much 90% of units are player customized. Other fundamental changes will need to be implemented for it to function properly.

 

 

 

 

 

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June 10, 2011 5:59:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

How do i update/run to 1.2b? still on 1.2a on impulse with no option to update

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June 10, 2011 6:06:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Kaesho, make sure you select "Show Pre-release versions" in the menu that comes up when you click the blue button, top left. If you still see nothing, press F5.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm talking about Impulse.

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June 10, 2011 6:09:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Kaesho,
How do i update/run to 1.2b? still on 1.2a on impulse with no option to update

 

Here's a link to the Impulse guide:

http://www.impulsedriven.com/help

See #10 - Preferences.  The item you want is "Show pre-release versions".  If you check this box you'll be able to play 1.3 betas as they come out.

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June 10, 2011 6:26:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

- movement speed, tactical battle speed and game speed is much better. I like that.

- goodie huts with items are nice. I like finding things. But that makes the game even easier.

- my sov knows the spells Return, Lower Land, Arcane Arrow right from the beginning. Is this intended?

 

Couldn´t notice anything else, because the game crashed.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12734598/debug.err


 

 

 

 

 

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June 10, 2011 6:44:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Only had a little time to play, so very initial impression.

Overall feels like another step forwards, had a "this is more like what it should have been" moment, when I had a random event pop up, which I could only beat because of the mace I found a little earlier in an explored hut.  Made the RPG part a lot more alive.  Having the champs rarer (by intent or just my luck) and most troops you build in groups made my sov also feel more special.

I liked what I saw of the economy, more careful planning definitely needed up front.  I do think some of the initial formula for train times and mats might need to be tweaked for peasants to get them out quicker --needing a good part of your starting pop and plenty of mats now + 10 or more turns to build limits exploration or protection options at start.  Another area I noted feeling slow now was research.  I like that times were bumped up overall, but might make the initial curve on the tech side to be a bit lower.  Since I can't spam studies now, its a lot of turns before I can research much.

A few other things: the AI I ran into spammed a lot of cities (pioneers were cheap compared to military units?)  Had about 6 cities before I had 2, and wandering monsters seemed ignored their lone pioneers, or they were getting lucky or something.  Just feels like you have to rush a few cities quickly or fall behind early.  Enemy units being in singles instead of group stacks now that your units train in stacks feels a bit odd, might have things like spiders group?  A few crashes in an hour of playing, which is more than the official builds.

But at least for the major changes so far I liked em, just need a bit of balance to clean it up.  I'm sure thoughts will change as I get past the initial game, and will be interested to see if the economy continues to feel tight overall, or if things start to fall apart once a good sized kingdom is formed up.

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June 10, 2011 7:22:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Even though it says Studies should cost more population the more you have, they are actually costing 1 each time.  I have just the one city.  Save attached.  You'll notice that it says the cost should be higher, but the actual cost when you build it is always 1.  Use Mods is off.

There is the same problem with Workshops too, so I would say that the UI has been updated, but when it's time to take the increased population, the buildings still default to the population cost of being the first of that type of building to be built.

Best regards,
Steven.

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June 10, 2011 8:15:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sorry. Posted in support forum...

1. Abandoned villages don't show on 3d map. Can see them in cloth map.

2. Need a way to demolish buildings to free up population. Population is much more difficult to control now which is good as long as we have the capacity to manage it.

3. AI committed suicide by walking alone right up to a city I had recently captured from him.

4. No shard spells can be researched. I have both Air and Earth shards but can't research any spells from these areas.

5. Tech/Magic balance is way off. I am reasonably early into the game and have already researched every spell available to me yet I'm not even to level 3 Warfare tech yet.

6. Parties as a starting point are a good thing.

7. There should be a low-level missile weapon available from the start. Perhaps a sling or crude bow.

 

Over all this is an improvement. But man, the balance is still so far off it isn't funny in terms of tech not being the massive chore it currently is. I really hate the impact Technology has in this game. It is just way too important and dramatic - which is so arse about for a game about magic. I think I'd prefer ditching tech altogether and using city size as the limiter to what can be purchased.

 

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June 10, 2011 8:41:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm really enjoying the changes made so far. The early game is spiced up a bit more than before with the new quests available. I'm going to quickly point out, though, that there are some cloth map/3d map issues with these new quests. Starting up a new game, my sovereign ran into the quest where the rider lost his horse, which is your's for the taking. The horse's location appeared in the cloth map, but not in the 3d map. Later, I received a random quest in which I was told about some spooky murmurings in some nearby ruins (the pregnant wolf quest). This quest appeared on the 3d map, but not the cloth map. Also, during that wolf quest, you're asked if you'd like to expend 5 essence. This is confusing, as essence hasn't been an active term for quite a while now (at least to my knowledge). What does essence even do in WoM these days, and where can I find my essence levels in-game? Some clarification would help improve the quest.

Loving the changes, Team Stardock. Keep up the great work.

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June 10, 2011 9:00:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Only played about  a 1/2 hour, but game definitely seems to have a better pace. 

Also seeing problem with abandoned villages showing up on cloth map but not in 3d.

Here is saved game showing that.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16706254/Jim12b_4.EleSav

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June 10, 2011 9:28:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Enjoy the changes so far. 

 

Only played a bit, but first thing that bugged me was that my pioneer is costing 40 mats? Is this right?

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June 10, 2011 9:55:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting relmich,
Enjoy the changes so far. 

 

Only played a bit, but first thing that bugged me was that my pioneer is costing 40 mats? Is this right?

Since units train in groups now the resources used reflects that, however pioneers are still single units and only cost 10 or so mats, when you switch from making a group of militia to making a pioneer the game displays the cost of a group of 4 pioneers. I think you just have to click the first grouping button to make it correct that.

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June 10, 2011 10:06:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ultimately, in non-tactical battles units with spells are going to have to learn to use them, or the overall system of combat magic will need to be changed.

 

 

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June 10, 2011 11:18:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Somethings I have noticed.

The adanboned mine/village and lost temple are not shown on the 3d map while some of the quest locations (enchanters/witches hut) don't always show up on the cloth map.

In the pregnant wolf quest/event? you're asked if you'd like to expend 5 essence to help it.  I said yes got two pups but lost spell casting ability on my sovereign.  I had forgotten that while hidden essence is still linked to spell casting ability.  Is it meant to cost you so much for two units?

I can suddenly find my self a large amount in the red for population eg 422/365.  By deleting a recently finished town hall this was fixed.  While tring to figure why I noticed that a cities citizen summary didnt match its breakdown and neither added up to the total usage.  Also while it said that my seventh study would cost 17 pop it only cost 4 pop each for the next 6 I built.  Workshops where similar but only costing 3 pop. It is possible to build studies and wokshops that put youre pop in the red.

House are showing increased food cost to build(ie 21 food) but still cost only one to build.

The lower hps means that it is much easlier to die  to one hit, my sovereign died to one bandit blow tring to protect his city.  On the other hand once I realise I had arcane arrow he could get away with solo adventuring.  The found crude bow with arcane weapon kills most creatures with 5hp before they can get to you.  

Nakisisa

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