FE- Dynasties are cut

By on May 20, 2011 5:53:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Tridus

Join Date 03/2008
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From the new Gamespot Q&A:

Other systems, such as population storage (aka housing) that used to require that the player find food to build houses to grow cities, have been simplified (less city micromanagement), and systems such as dynasties have been cut entirely. Technology research is a more elaborate system where the player can plan out his future goals and plans. Leveling up your champions and designing units both offer more options and, more importantly, more flavorful options.

I knew they were looking at dynasties, didn't realize it was going to be on the chopping block. Probably the right call though, it needed a ton of work and wasn't that important at the end of the day. Best to focus on core stuff.

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May 20, 2011 6:05:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm really bummed about that but understand. After getting hooked on the Games of Thrones all over again due to the TV series I was looking forward to this feature.  It did need a lot of work to make it fun and interesting though.  Maybe someone will Mod it back in.

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May 20, 2011 6:11:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, it was probably a smart choice. They have to have something to focus on in Elemental: Game 3, after all.

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May 20, 2011 6:14:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Not likely, since they are not giving us any scripting access.

Population and dynasties are probably just the first few things to go, I'm sure there will be more. Honestly, while I think it's kind of lame to lose things, I also think it's the right decision to make when creating a new vision for a game. It goes with what they said about features - FE is not just going to be e:wom with 20% more features. It's a whole new game.

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May 20, 2011 6:26:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't know how many things you can lose really. The real "core" stuff seems to be staying, especially since the interview mentions how he uses MoM as an inspiration. Under that guideline quests could go, but it's not like magic or tactical combat are disappearing (those things are getting more love instead).

I think it's a good way to go. A game that does 5 things and does them well is a lot better then a game that is mediocre at 10 things.

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May 20, 2011 6:36:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This sucks.  It was one of the few interesting things in elemental.  If they continue to cut the shit they couldn't make work well in WoM, there won't even be a game to play. 

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May 20, 2011 7:19:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
This sucks.  It was one of the few interesting things in elemental.  If they continue to cut the shit they couldn't make work well in WoM, there won't even be a game to play. 

I completely agree with this. In all honesty, I feel like the new vision is less of a 4x experience and more of a rpgish war game. While this might be a fun experience, especially with the new uber monsters, it won't hold my attention for long unless they go out of their way to greatly improve tactical combat and make the various factions feel unique. Without this, I wonder what will hold the player for multiple playthroughs.

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May 20, 2011 8:05:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This news is perhaps worse than seeing the demise, momentary restoration, and second demise of Essence as a stat/resource. It seems that the impressive new resource investments for the Elemental projects have not meant any change to the 'ditch our best ideas because implementing them is really hard' thing. What's the point of being an indie, labor-of-love dev shop if not to be able to work on the hard stuff and put off mass-market polish until you've got a seriously cool new thing going?

Wait, maybe I've half-answered my own question. That expensive new talent comes with future revenue expectations, and maybe the old 'niche' audience for Stardock games will never be large enough for the long-term business plan... 

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May 20, 2011 8:06:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Agree with all you posters about how much potential the dynasties system had, but that's just it... potential.  If I had a nickel every time I heard the word "potential" associated with EWOM, I'd have a lot of nickels.  Derek has decided to fix tactical combat, the world, and the magic in EFE and throw everything else out.  Perhaps in Version 3.0 they can make a true sequel and add dynasties, etc. back in to an already sweet EFE game... or maybe Brad can make dynasties really sweet in EWOM 1.3 and put the pressure back on Derek. 

 

 

 

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May 20, 2011 8:29:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GW Swicord,
What's the point of being an indie, labor-of-love dev shop if not to be able to work on the hard stuff and put off mass-market polish until you've got a seriously cool new thing going?

Wait, maybe I've half-answered my own question. That expensive new talent comes with future revenue expectations, and maybe the old 'niche' audience for Stardock games will never be large enough for the long-term business plan...

I think you got it right there. They are moving away from being an indie, labor-of-love developer to being a more corporate developer.

Quoting Trojasmic,
Derek has decided to fix tactical combat, the world, and the magic in EFE and throw everything else out. Perhaps in Version 3.0 they can make a true sequel and add dynasties, etc. back in to an already sweet EFE game.

Yes, Derek has decided to work on fixing tactical combat, the world, and magic, however, this goes back to the point I previously made, FE sounds like it will be a straightforward war game instead of a 4x game.

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May 20, 2011 9:40:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Lets don't jump ahead of ourselves and assume what kind of game FE will be, we can speculate all we want but that will not change anything the developers decide game wise. Just might upset some people who are looking forward to the new game and what changes it will bring.

I'd rather have little to no information about what's gonna be in FE because... well... where's the adventure about trying to understand new concepts in a new game? Imaging what will be in the game is quite fun actually. Don't know what will be in it and there lays the surprise we'll all get to see in the future when FE gets released, course those of us who will be around to wanna try the beta out can't wait to get their hands on it and see what it can do. That is the new adventure I am waiting for

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May 20, 2011 9:42:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Words cannot describe the disappointment I feel.

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May 20, 2011 9:54:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't know about potential, but this was at least one of the few features in the game that I actually liked. And they're taking it out? Maybe it didn't accomplish what they wanted, but it gave you something fun to play around with: a super strong champion that could be better than your own sovereign. It seems every article I read makes me look forward to this less and less.

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May 20, 2011 9:58:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can understand why they would cut out dynasties: there are more important aspects of the game to work on and not enough time to flesh out the preexisting, though underdeveloped, dynasty system. I would've like to see diplomacy based in part on arranged marriages rather than solely on trade. I really hope the dynasty concept is not dead and will return in the 3rd game.

 

 

Quoting kenata,

In all honesty, I feel like the new vision is less of a 4x experience and more of a rpgish war game. While this might be a fun experience, especially with the new uber monsters, it won't hold my attention for long unless they go out of their way to greatly improve tactical combat and make the various factions feel unique.

 

In case you missed it, Derek gave one example of how factions will be made unique: One of the Empire factions are stronger then the regular Joe, so they'll be able to carry a heavier load of equipment --> the best soldiers in the game. To me that seemed a step in the right direction.

I think I understand what you meant about an rpgish feel, but if you remove the sovereign and champions, it is pretty much the same game as Gal Civ 2: without the espionage, but with the tactical battles.

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May 20, 2011 11:36:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Honestly, as cool as all the new stuff will make combat and exploration it seems to me that faction on faction combat is being starved and gutted. With dynasties going the way of the old electric cars I don't see it's close cousin diplomacy getting any attention, and it badly needs it.

I would love to see the ability to mod dynasties back in but I wouldn't get your hopes up. Elemental as it stands has absolutely no mod support whatsoever for changing any part of the core mechanics at all. I really don't see them changing that any time soon, they would basically have to change the entire modding system. That would be allot of work and they have come out and said that there won't be significant modding changes in FE.

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May 21, 2011 12:28:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kenata,


I think you got it right there. They are moving away from being an indie, labor-of-love developer to being a more corporate developer.

 

Funny...wasn't the major reason to sell off impulse to avoid that?

 

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May 21, 2011 2:00:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Funny...wasn't the major reason to sell off impulse to avoid that?

What on Earth ever gave you that idea? The sell off of Impulse signaled to me something big had shifted in Stardock's outlook. And definitely not away from corporatism.

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May 21, 2011 3:54:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is indeed worrying.  I guess the only way we will know if the changes and compromises work out is by playing the game for a fairly long period of time.  Stardock certainly does seem to be taking less community suggestions this time, for good or ill.

Best regards,
Steven.

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May 21, 2011 6:16:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm disappointed as well but I trust that Mr. Paxton and company knows what they're doing.

I'd rather have a tight, focused fun game than a game that is all over the place and by trying to please too many people it ends up pleasing no one.

 

 

 

 

 

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May 21, 2011 7:51:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

4x? you mean it's not 5x or even 7x?

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May 21, 2011 8:17:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I wouldn't worry about FE becoming just a 'fantasy war simulator'...it's 100% 4x 

Dynasties were one of the features that always felt undercooked, and while we came up with several cool ways to improve them, it was on the 'other side' of the feature split when mapping out the expansions.  It'll be revisited, but we wanted FE to be a solid base, and for that the World, Magic, and Battles needed to be solidified first.

Also, while Dynasties were 'removed', it was done by implementing a <RemoveDynasties>TRUE</>  in ElementalDefs.xml.  Anyone that can spell 'false' can mod them back in

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May 21, 2011 10:08:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oh, well, that ain't so bad then

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May 21, 2011 10:36:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FE looks like a winner to me! I will miss the dynasty system, but at it's heart is the aspect of training great champions anyway, right? The NPCs are my favorite part of the game. Keep up the amazing work guys!!!

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May 21, 2011 11:09:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DsRaider,
Words cannot describe the disappointment I feel.

+1

the only thing i liked when we got 1.0 was dynasty makes me sad

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May 21, 2011 11:21:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BoogieBac,


Also, while Dynasties were 'removed', it was done by implementing a <RemoveDynasties>TRUE</>  in ElementalDefs.xml.  Anyone that can spell 'false' can mod them back in

 

Joy!  

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May 21, 2011 1:12:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BoogieBac,
... It'll be revisited, but we wanted FE to be a solid base, and for that the World, Magic, and Battles needed to be solidified first. ...


Thanks, Scott; that's reassuring. I'm looking forward to the upcoming dev journal on FE magic. 

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