Simple Yes Or No Poll - Multiplayer

By on March 1, 2011 10:58:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

StarReaper

Join Date 08/2006
+5

I have read random people stating the amount of people wanting multiplayer is probably around 1% and although a lot of people who are very pro multiplayer, no longer frequent the forum often anymore, im curious.

If Elemental had a true stable Multiplayer with all the single player bells and whistles, would you want that, simple Yes or No.

 

Yes.

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March 5, 2011 3:46:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hey hows it being silly, I explained decently well. We want single player. We want multiplayer. We want them to be the same thing?

Yes other people want variations of that, but if they give us full single player/multiplayer, we can mod down to specifics cant we?

Look all this post has proven is of people visiting the forum there is good support for multiplayer as long as they dont dumb it down, and give us a half assed version. Yes and No answers are just fine, its not 100% accurate because people are adding in there point of view, but i think it blows out of the water that 1% of the active community want MP versus 99% that dont care.

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March 5, 2011 4:30:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

but i think it blows out of the water that 1% of the active community want MP versus 99% that dont care.

That's probably true about "the active community," no matter what you might mean by the term. But the 1% number that Brad and others are citing is about the customer base for the 4X TBS genre as a whole (or at least that's how I read the forums; I've not seen a link to any formal survey data).

Given my own experience as a Stardock customer since 2003 who never touched the forurms before 2006, I'm very open to the idea that us forum regulars are a small minority of actual paying customers.

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March 5, 2011 4:50:18 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GW Swicord,

That's probably true about "the active community," no matter what you might mean by the term. But the 1% number that Brad and others are citing is about the customer base for the 4X TBS genre as a whole (or at least that's how I read the forums; I've not seen a link to any formal survey data).

The traceable part. I doubt it includes statistics from forms of MP that do not require connecting to the central server (Hotseat, LAN, and PBEM). The numbers for Hotseat and LAN are particularly important because the people that find MP nice to do every once and a while with friends are most likely to use those.

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March 5, 2011 5:48:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Gwenio1,
... The traceable part. I doubt it includes statistics from forms of MP that do not require connecting to the central server (Hotseat, LAN, and PBEM). The numbers for Hotseat and LAN are particularly important because the people that find MP nice to do every once and a while with friends are most likely to use those.

Don't get me wrong. I never read Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics, but I've long understood that stats based on verbal data are an art, not a science. My reason for stepping in there was that too many folks seem to be confusing the idea of 1% of regular Elemental forum posters with 1% of 'average 4X TBS players.' I'd be very surprised if the preferences overlap between those two groups was even 50%.

Stats work beautifully for things like white blood cell counts and even for many wildlife population estimates. When it comes to arguments about entirely human matters, the precision starts declining. And then there's the whole business of sloppy poll design and deliberate push-poll design (a few folks in Brad's recent FE Poll thread very correctly pointed out that his question design could not capture all possible respondants).

Take my initial reply as an example. Given the way StarReaper phrased the question and my recent reading of various MP-related threads, my simple answer was "No." That's because I value single-player much more highly than any multiplayer possibilities, and recent debates around here have me thinking about the budget and how many other parts of the game I believe deserve more investment than multiplayer anything.

That aside, however, I'm also in that crowd of folks with a wafer-thin interest in co-op/hotseat sorts of settings. Competitive MP has never held interest for me, although I did OK in the GalCiv II Metaverse for a while after the AltMeta crowd roped me into it. But I've been interested in tag-teaming AIs on high difficulty levels since you could run a game of Civ on a DOS PC.

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March 5, 2011 6:14:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I just think the 1% of TBS are engaging ing multiplayer such a bogus unfounded number. Id love for them to post there sources.

Maybe only 1% of people who purchased Elemental play online, then again the intital release of EWOM barely worked single player, MP is useless.

S.R.

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March 5, 2011 7:08:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Uuh, I wish I could say no. I don't really have that much of an interest in multiplayer, but on the other hand, there are situations where I'd love to play some multiplayer, if I only had someone to play with.

So I'm going to have to say yes.

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March 5, 2011 7:39:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting StarReaper,
I just think the 1% of TBS are engaging ing multiplayer such a bogus unfounded number. Id love for them to post there sources. ...

I'd love to see those sources also, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that stuff was 'proprietary information.' Marketing researchers want to know as much as they possibly can about us, while keeping us as much in the dark about them as possible.

That makes sense if you're thinking about observing how southern African crocodiles raise their young. But when the observers and the observed are in the same species, the question of observer motives becomes more important, which makes me much more interested in seeing full info on the study's design and the resulting 'data.'

And if you were wondering, yes, I was feeling slightly like a combative single-player customer when I replied above. I can also easily imagine that 1% is more like 9% or 23%. But I'd be very surprised to find that the abstract 4X TBS audience had much more than a quarter of folks seriously interested in MP.

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March 5, 2011 9:18:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oh im not going to argue and disagree with you. Id say an active multiplayer community would be probably between 10-20% 20% being on the high side of course.

BTW Shogun total war is release with a co-op mode. So both players can take over countires in the main game, wish they had done it for Medival but looks like from now on they will finally include real co-op and not just 2 player battle mode.

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March 5, 2011 9:23:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That number sounds like it's using bad measurement to me. if I'm playing a LAN game, how do they know? If I play SP once and then only play MP for two years, am I still counted as buying the game for SP? Numbers can be twisted for all kinds of fun things. A month after Civ 5 was out, more then half the people who bought it still hadn't earned an achievement for completing a single game. Does that mean SP is only played by 50% of customers? I doubt it.

As for the poll (and any poll on a site like this)... Selection Bias. The forum is not representitive of the customer base as a whole. It's representative of the subsection of the customer base that is passionate enough to come post about it, ESPECIALLY the long time regulars. While you could say that said people are some of your best customers since they buy games years in advance and go tell their friends, they're (or we're since I include myself) not the same as the rest of the player base.

We're weird. It's nice once you get used to it.

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March 6, 2011 10:15:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I vote no. Multiplayer is a whole seperate development profile than single player. The moment a game becomes multiplayer every patch and update starts to center around "balance" issues. And since every faction of the community will invariably be behind a different "balance" ideal the resulting fighting will ruin every update for the game and the developers will throw up their hands in frustration and start making RTS games. That is exactly what happened to Triumph, the makers of age of wonders. That game was utterly ruined by the whining of the multiplayer "community."

 

Again I vote no.

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March 6, 2011 10:39:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think that if it was made clear that was was being provided was "co-op only" then that removes most of the problems, as games can be tailored for the people in them, and there is no "human vs. human", which I think is the most devisive.  I think Stardock could make a good process and a good co-op mode, but I think it would be best for the game if competitive PvP play was ruled out of FE, and it made clear that it is up to the players to customize the co-op game to best suit the players in it.  If there are a broad suite of scalable AI capabilities, and the ability to make a group of AIs allied, it doesn't matter so much if a particular tactic is overpowered when used by a human.

Best regards,
Steven.

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March 6, 2011 10:52:42 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting StevenAus,
I think that if it was made clear that was was being provided was "co-op only" friendly MP that is like SP only with human players instead of AI then that removes most of the problems, as games can be tailored for the people in them, and there is no "human vs. human", which I think is the most devisive.  I think Stardock could make a good process and a good co-op mode, but I think it would be best for the game if competitive PvP play was ruled out of FE, and it made clear that it is up to the players to customize the co-op game to best suit the players in it.  If there are a broad suite of scalable AI capabilities, and the ability to make a group of AIs allied, it doesn't matter so much if a particular tactic is overpowered when used by a human.

Best regards,
Steven.

Fixed.

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March 6, 2011 3:42:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No

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March 6, 2011 5:00:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i said earlier that i don't care about multiplayer, but i've simultaneously no desire to go all Egyptian over this issue. i respect stardock's judgement and dislike the way this has taken over the forums. even if multiplayer is only included to shut up reviewers "con: it has no multiplayer," then it will have some value i guess.

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March 6, 2011 6:51:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

what I want is FULL FEATURE co-op multiple player, and might even play with others online or in MY LAN

but do NOT want competative stripped multiplayer.

harpo

 

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March 6, 2011 7:15:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i said earlier that i don't care about multiplayer, but i've simultaneously no desire to go all Egyptian over this issue. i respect stardock's judgement and dislike the way this has taken over the forums. even if multiplayer is only included to shut up reviewers "con: it has no multiplayer," then it will have some value i guess.

Sethai and I usually don't agree, but here I agree with him completely.

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March 6, 2011 8:43:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Im not one for just excepting someones judgement. If the side of the box lies, whos telling the truth?

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March 7, 2011 9:51:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't care for multiplayer.

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March 7, 2011 4:02:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No.

 

If I want to play something MP, I will pick something specifically designed for MP.  There are fine options out there if this is your thing, I don't see what Elemental or FE would have to offer for MP that would be any better than anything else honestly, and specifically better than games designed for MP from the start.

 

But sure, if you want to play coop with your friends, and elemental is the only game you can agree to play.

 

Meh, just play succession games or something else like that.  Civ4 has all kinds of cool as hell ways to play the game SP, but with other people.  Right, this isn't Civ4, but it's not a game designed for MP either.

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March 7, 2011 7:26:16 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting shadowtongue,
No.

 

If I want to play something MP, I will pick something specifically designed for MP.  There are fine options out there if this is your thing, I don't see what Elemental or FE would have to offer for MP that would be any better than anything else honestly, and specifically better than games designed for MP from the start.

 

But sure, if you want to play coop with your friends, and elemental is the only game you can agree to play.

 

Meh, just play succession games or something else like that.  Civ4 has all kinds of cool as hell ways to play the game SP, but with other people.  Right, this isn't Civ4, but it's not a game designed for MP either.

However the main group of people that want multiplayer are not interested in a game that is specifically for MP. Rather they want a game that is fun in SP but allows them the play the same game with friends.

And Fantasy 4X TBS games are rare. There is a reason the Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic MP community (specifically PBEM) has been growing over the last couple of years... prior to its re-release through digital media when it cost over $100 to get.

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March 7, 2011 10:54:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Gwenio1,
However the main group of people that want multiplayer are not interested in a game that is specifically for MP. Rather they want a game that is fun in SP but allows them the play the same game with friends.

And Fantasy 4X TBS games are rare. There is a reason the Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic MP community (specifically PBEM) has been growing over the last couple of years... prior to its re-release through digital media when it cost over $100 to get.

 

If you want to play MP play a game that is devoted to MP, and yes, there are planty out there.  Fantasy based even.  But of course, I understand, the MP crowd here wants Elemental to be MP, yet they don't appear to be listening to what Brad is telling them.

 

I don't really understand why people who want MP would want to play MP in a game which isn't particularly designed for MP, but I'll take your word that that's what they want.

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March 7, 2011 11:09:26 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting shadowtongue,

I don't really understand why people who want MP would want to play MP in a game which isn't particularly designed for MP, but I'll take your word that that's what they want.

Because they do not play enough to justify buying a game that targets that, but find it fun to do occationally.

The discussion is more about what the limit resources availible for creating MP should be used for, rather than if it should exist (because it will exist regardless).

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March 8, 2011 12:58:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Single player is good enough for me.

 

Although, they should make a multiplayer version because they promised that originally.

 

 

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March 8, 2011 6:58:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting shadowtongue,
There are fine options out there if this is your thing, I don't see what Elemental or FE would have to offer for MP that would be any better than anything else honestly, and specifically better than games designed for MP from the start.

I think you greatly overestimate or exaggerate the number of 4x TBS games that are "designed for MP from the start."

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March 8, 2011 10:31:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Xtropy,

Quoting shadowtongue, reply 119There are fine options out there if this is your thing, I don't see what Elemental or FE would have to offer for MP that would be any better than anything else honestly, and specifically better than games designed for MP from the start.
I think you greatly overestimate or exaggerate the number of 4x TBS games that are "designed for MP from the start."

 

I may or I may not, but the point remains.  What is it about Elemental or FE that would make MP superior to existing games which are either designed for, or cater primarilly to MP?

 

Even games such as AoW or HoMM which are not specifically MP, though do have specific maps created to cater to MP games.  Yes, modders and map makers can and will do the same for Elemental, but again, what is it about Elemental which makes it 'superior' to those games for MP specifically?

 

Then you can just take a look at Dominons 3 if you want a real fantasy TBS geared almost entirely towards MP.  I'm sure there are others, not the least including FFH.  Hell there's even a way to play MoM against other people (I think there is anyway).  There's Battle for Wesnoth as well.

 

Now we can state that Elemental does or has things which these other games do not, but I think the larger point is that one thing Elemental does not have, and appears will not have, is the kind of MP people here are asking for.  So yes, ask for whatever you want, but I simply have a hard time understanding what it is about these games which makes people clammor so much for MP.  And I say that as a person who does play MP, just that I have no interest in playing Elemental MP, because it seems clear from what Brad is saying that whatever the MP is going to wind up, it's not really going to be much of a focus.

 

So I go back to the same stance I had during the GC2 development.  Screw MP, focus on SP, and at some point when the product is mature, if it makes business sense, open up MP or sell an MP expansion, or whatever.

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