Why should I buy this product now?

By on January 24, 2011 1:47:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

JonnieR

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I am a fan of Stardock strategy games, having said that I have read the most horrendous reviews of Elemental that I could imagine. I would suspect that there is something to them since they all virtually come to the same conclusion, that the game was essentially unfinished at introduction and had numerous bugs and failings. (4.0 from gamespot, give me a break, complete failures rate a 5, but the user ratings averaged out 6)

Now if we got rid of all the game companies that release a title before its out of Beta there wouldn't be any game companies left. Having said that I would like to know that the company is working hard to correct the problems. I did read one review of the game now that revision 1.11 is available and its conclusion was to wait until the first add-on was released before purchasing the game. It did say that 1.11 made some progress in correcting the faults. I have listened to Bruce Wardell talk about his vision for the game and I found it both inspiring and perhaps overly ambitious, which is not a bad thing as long as he and Stardock are commited to continue to work on the game to make those ambitions a reality.

I would love to love this game. Why should I buy it now?

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January 29, 2011 7:52:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Then again it takes me just 1min to write this reply, so I don't mind these threads. I wouldn't buy until the first expansion or later.

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January 30, 2011 9:40:46 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting JonnieR,

My read on Elemental is that it is somewhat unique and there is is no other 4x fantasy strategy game that quite measures up. At least none that I am aware of. So, while I agree with you there are risks (primarily with regard to my precious available game playing time), and frustratioin level (which could ruin the game for me forever) the uniqueness of the playing experience, providing it works out, may be worth the risk.

You have got to be kidding.

In its current state, any of the Age of Wonders games and the later Heroes of Might and Magic V measure up very positively when compared to Elemental - and that's just taking 4X Fantasy Games from this last decade. Arguably the Disciples' games as well.

And, of course, there's the die-hard strategy fan's eternal favourite in this sort of discussions, Dominions III, that puts every single other 4X fantasy game to shame in terms of strategic depth, tactical options, magical variety... and micromanagement. To be fair, it is a game that plays best in MP as it comes with an AI that performs worse than Elemental's, which is rather impressive given that Elemental's AI has real trouble playing the game.

Don't blind yourself with wishful thinking: If Elemental had been released now, in the state it is in nearly half a year after official release, it would still have been a failure and deemed as such in reviews by all but the most star-struck (or those playing it just for a few hours to review), just not the utterly dismal failure it was upon release. Do yourself a favour and wait another half year for the features to be locked down, the game balanced, and the crashbugs and memorybugs introduced with each new beta to be ironed out.

It might be a great game in time - it certainly has the potential and the developers are clearly working their hearts out - but it most definitely isn't one now.

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February 1, 2011 11:42:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sythion,



I was following up until you made a snipe about Civ5. I understand people not liking Civ5, or being disappointed in it, but if you are willing to give Elemental the benefit of the doubt then you should be willing to do the same for Civ5.

I bought both games and shelved them both.  Was a very very disapointing month in Aug/Sept timeframe last year

Just tried Elemenatl after a long break, very much improved and I enjoyed in quite a bit more.  Its still not MOM like fun but it is unique.

As far as buy or dont buy:  if you think you are going to buy it no reason not to now, unless the 50 bucks is truly a big deal.  The company has committed to chnages and will provide continuing investment.  I treat my purchase like a sunk cost, anything I get now is bonus and I have been pleasantly suprised with the changes.

Still havent tried Civ 5 again, too much emotional disappointment with that one (played them all since Civ 2) as its incredible how far that design has strayed from what I liked about the franchise.

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February 3, 2011 12:22:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Because it is fun.  I bought it wondering the same thing, and have almost gotten my money's worth.  Just working up through the AI difficulty is fun enough.

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February 9, 2011 12:23:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No, because it is not (yet, maybe) fun. And maybe never will be. I believe they picked a real loser of a concept: an empty bland world inhabited by essentially completely interchangeable races. Indistinguishable sovereigns, indistinguished heroes, MoM it is not and never will be if it remains true to its ethos. Play MoM, that is fun. That said, the game has huge potential and Stardock deserves credit for attempting to save it. It is possible that the expansion will be the answer, as long as it deviates far enough the original game which is probably too self-handicapped to ever be great, or even much fun.

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February 9, 2011 8:40:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree with that post ^

 

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February 9, 2011 8:33:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah I agree completely with Anglophile as well. I just hope that in Fallen Enchantress they ditch the lore straight jacket they put themselves into, and just adopt standard fantasy style races to give the factions some interesting gameplay elements to them.

Also, a land "devastated by magic" will by its very nature be boring to look at, *unless* you do two things:

 

1) Show the devastation. Eg destroyed cities, magic torn canyons ripped through the ground, shattered mountain ranges etc.

2) Make spells interesting enough to radically transform and improve the game map.

 

One of the coolest things about the original Dungeon Keeper was the game map that became gradually corrupted as you won each mission. Dropping that from DK2 immediately made me realise the new development team were idiots.

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February 10, 2011 7:36:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Admiral Rom,
Yeah I agree completely with Anglophile as well. I just hope that in Fallen Enchantress they ditch the lore straight jacket they put themselves into, and just adopt standard fantasy style races to give the factions some interesting gameplay elements to them.

Also, a land "devastated by magic" will by its very nature be boring to look at, *unless* you do two things:

 

1) Show the devastation. Eg destroyed cities, magic torn canyons ripped through the ground, shattered mountain ranges etc.

2) Make spells interesting enough to radically transform and improve the game map.

 

One of the coolest things about the original Dungeon Keeper was the game map that became gradually corrupted as you won each mission. Dropping that from DK2 immediately made me realise the new development team were idiots.

 

I agree with this. I'd love to see the standard fantasy races or at the very least, make the made up races more like them.

 

Also, I agree with the devastated landscape thing. If you are going to have that story arc them go full out on it. Make it realistic.

 

 

 

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February 11, 2011 11:33:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Honestly if I were you I would wait for FE to come out. This game although not as bad as when it came out is still not very fun and the graphics are bland and ugly (unfortunatly I don't see this changing.)  Gameplay is sub-par but improving.

Tactical Combat is well not nearly as fun as AOW:SM or MOM but they are working on it.

AI - Well it ain't very good at the moment but Brad is working on this.

Mods- It is very moddable although I have yet to download a mod.

From what I have read Fallen Enchantress is going to be much better (and hopefull does not have the same look) as War of Magic. New combat system, better AI etc. I think SD has learned the lessons (I hope) of WOM and will create a good game (the Game that WOM should have been)

They will still support and add to WOM but to tell you the truth I doubt many will be playing WOM after FE comes out I know I won't.

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February 11, 2011 12:37:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting JonnieR,
Interesting about Distant Worlds, I did not buy it, but came to the conclusion (after some research) that life was too short to help some Euros rewrite their program and, apparently, I have dodged a bullet. However, there is one important difference here; there were other 4x space strategy games available. Besides if it didn't come up to the level of GalCic 2 why bother.

My read on Elemental is that it is somewhat unique and there is is no other 4x fantasy strategy game that quite measures up. At least none that I am aware of. So, while I agree with you there are risks (primarily with regard to my precious available game playing time), and frustratioin level (which could ruin the game for me forever) the uniqueness of the playing experience, providing it works out, may be worth the risk.

I love these threads too. People normally tell it like it is, which you will certainly not get from listening to game companies or even the so-called experts that review games. Thanks for the comments.

I suppose then that you have not played many 4x Fantasy Strategy games.

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February 11, 2011 1:19:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM?  Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever.  Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid.  I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

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February 11, 2011 2:13:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM? Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever. Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid. I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

I am somebody who bought EWOM last October. I have kept playing the game while patiently waiting for updates that would fix or at least reduce the "Out of memory" crashes. I do not play that many games and when I find one that I really like I tend to stick to playing it repeatedly until it finally boors me into looking for the next game. EWOM is the first game I really liked that has failed to keep me. The crashes from running out of memory just keep repeating, no matter how you play, and the update mentioned in this thread saw an increase of these crashes rather than a reduction. I have just given up on a game that was only 200 turns long because the "Out of Memory" box is coming up way too often. It feels like I play for three hours but only end up with about an hours worth of game time. I cannot express sufficiently how frustrating it has been to play EWOM!!!  And the dismal performance by Stardock in addressing the problems has driven my desire away from playing it anymore.

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February 11, 2011 4:33:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM?  Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever.  Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid.  I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

Agree.

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February 11, 2011 4:48:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM?  Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever.  Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid.  I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

 

Let's see- new talent brought in to help in the areas Brad thought Stardock needed improvement in.

Stardock's track record on their developed games has been generally good until EWOM.

They will be working with an engine that has gotten most of the bugs/memory leaks (hopefully) out of it by FE, enabling them to concentrate on the gameplay.

It's a download-only title (I believe) so no need to Crunch like crazy like SD did for EWOM.  Crunch tends to decrease the quality of a product.

 

 

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February 11, 2011 5:27:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

like that YO GABBA GABBA kid show says.

Try it! You'll Like it!

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February 11, 2011 6:26:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM? Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever. Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid. I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

true

 

 

 

 

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February 12, 2011 11:54:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have faith that FE will be amazing. I really do...

I have faith in Stardock as a lot is riding on the line for them including their reputation. They'll make good.

I have faith in the FE team. Derek will whip them into shape and his creativity will make for a drastically better product.

I have faith that Jon will make EWOM/FE much more mod friendly.

I have faith that Toby will continue to be the real power behind the throne.

I have faith in the community that they will continue to give great ideas that will inspire the development team.

 

Well I guess it would be nice
If I could play your EWOM
I know not everybody
Has got a game like you

But I've got to think twice
Before I give my heart away
And I know all the games you play
Because I play them too

Oh but I
Need some time off from that emotion
Time to pick my heart up off the floor
And when that love comes down
Without devotion
Well it takes a strong man baby
But I'm showing you some more

'Cause I gotta have faith...

Baby
I know you're asking me to stay
Say please, please, please, don't go away
You say I'm giving you the blues
Maybe
You mean every word you say
Can't help but think of yesterday
And another who tied me down to gamer's right rules

Before this river
Becomes an ocean
Before you throw my heart back on the floor
Oh baby I reconsider
My foolish notion
Well I need someone to hold me
But I'll wait for something more

Yes I've gotta have faith...

 

Sorry...

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February 12, 2011 3:09:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM?  Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever.  Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid.  I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

 

I suffered with the out of memory errors, but annoying as they are, im usually willing to put up with stuff like that if the game is playable enough. Im basing any optimism on FE on the fact that Kael was added to the team. It was impressive what he and his team were able to achieve while working on a mod, and im hoping a finished product with him leading a professional development team will be great.

 

As another point, I hate the sovereign models in War of magic, they look awful. Im really hoping for a revamp for those in FE.

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February 13, 2011 4:38:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why should you buy it now?  Because it's a fun game with a very bright future. 

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February 13, 2011 4:53:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why should you buy it now? Because it's a fun game with a very bright future.

elemental is not bad but for 50$ you can buy alot better games

for example i tried 1 month ago fall from heaven 2 and i spend more time with it then with elemental

and second game similar to elemental age of wonders just feels more complet then elelemtal i played it over lan too with 2 friends , its simple very stable and complet game you can enjoy

in elemental you can fight against a AI that has the brain power of a vegetable , the only thing that can kill you are hostile monsters that walk the earth

stuff is not balanced right you can cast 10x vulkanos and finish the game in like 1 min

 

but if you want to suport the game like i did then buy it i would do it again i suport the game from beta 1 becouse i like thoso kinds of game and i trust Stardock

that they will make us more happy with the first expansion

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February 13, 2011 7:21:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Anglophile,
No, because it is not (yet, maybe) fun. And maybe never will be. I believe they picked a real loser of a concept: an empty bland world inhabited by essentially completely interchangeable races. Indistinguishable sovereigns, indistinguished heroes, MoM it is not and never will be if it remains true to its ethos. Play MoM, that is fun. That said, the game has huge potential and Stardock deserves credit for attempting to save it. It is possible that the expansion will be the answer, as long as it deviates far enough the original game which is probably too self-handicapped to ever be great, or even much fun.

No!

I mean: all what you say is true except the reasoning behind the first part is flawed: it was not "a real loser of a concept".

Those of us who were here during the whole alpha beta know that the CONCEPT was awesome:
- We were talked about a living world with spawning monsters who multiply and grow more bold, with independant nations able to be more than cannon fodder, with different terrains and places providing different encounters.

- We were talked about a game without the usual fantasy races but with human/sub-human races who will play differently, something akin to Dom3 were the human races all have their weaknesses and forces (some with/without archers, some with war chariots, some with strong infantry, some without cavalry, some with war elephants,...) that make them distincts. Frogboy even gave the exemple of a race having exclusively cavalry-based units like the Mongols of Genghis Khan.

- We were talked about a fully customisable sovereign who could be played very differently based on which use would be made of essence: spend it to have more cities/powerful heroes/bonuses or keep it and increase the sovereign's magic power.

- and for all these we were repeatedly asked for feedback and ideas, which we gave. There are enough walls of text in these forums to make at least three different 4X-Fantasy games if someone so wishes.

 

The concept was awesome, still is. It's the realisation that has been miserable...

 

Quoting Frogboy,
Then why are you here? To be a jerk or what?
You really should refrain from posting in these threads if it's for looking down on people like 6 months ago.

Should I remind you of some memorable quotes of yours like "The game will be ready in August and I shall stop reading the posts of people telling otherwise" or "If you don't like this game, don't buy it!" ?  (quoted from memory)

Why is Anglophile here? Like many of us. Just read, he's told it: That said, the game has huge potential and Stardock deserves credit for attempting to save it. It is possible that the expansion will be the answer, as long as it deviates far enough the original game which is probably too self-handicapped to ever be great, or even much fun

He's (we are) waiting to see the game he bought become the game he was promised. The game YOU promised us (you know: "epic battles ala Total War", "Sauron in the opening of LotR", things like that...)

Let Derek and the new team handle the forum and the criticism here if you can't!

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February 14, 2011 1:12:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
What makes you guys think FE is going to be any better than EWOM?  Remember we were just as excited about EWOM from "what we've read" that it was going to be the best game ever.  Six months ago I said that EWOM was released six months too early... well it's been six months now and EWOM is still not solid.  I don't know about you, but I'm going to be dragging my expectations in on the floor for FE.

Beacuse The Dude who created Fall From Heaven is now working on it.

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February 14, 2011 1:24:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Seconding Mandelik's response to "a real loser of a concept." The early concepts were indeed rich and varied enough to perhaps build three different games. Unfortunately, the release version somehow never lived up to the plans and ideas kicked around during the very long pre-beta and beta days.

The hope thing is still there, though, at least until FE starts nearing feature lock. My #1 wish: Bring Back (and Finish) the Essence Mechanics.

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February 14, 2011 6:50:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I still strongly maintain that this game should have simply been as close to a MoM clone as possible using the new engine.

 

Instead we got them trying to break the mold, and apparently trying to do too much, then realizing they couldn't do it all, and so the scraping of systems began, the 'dumbing down' of systems began, and the end result was... well no need to rehash that.

 

Everyone (and yes, literally EVERYONE) would have been ecstatic with a MoM clone, and for the 1st fantasy title using this engine from Stardock, it would have sufficed.

 

Then... start working up the new concepts, start building on the engine to add all the goodies it is capeable of.

 

Hell, I still wish they'd just make a MoM clone, I'm assuming there will be a MoMish mod out eventually, but until then...

 

Just because the engine can do all those nifty things doesn't mean it has to, if the mechanics behind the systems don't make any sense, or simply are not fun.

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February 14, 2011 7:29:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i dont know iam now very sceptic with clones after seeing dungeons i cant imagine the abonimation elemental would look like

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