And you decide to hire the guy that could do great things for elemental???

By on January 5, 2011 11:44:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

xStarfirex

Join Date 10/2009
+6

Yeh so atm there is that other thread, which lets be honest isn't the most welcoming thread for Jon to be reading in his first week here. I would like to think we as a community are at the very least a balanced sort so I figure why not have a place for positive opinions of Mr Shafer. So yeh, heres your place for Jon Shafer love, Oh and don't get bogged down in petty things like the "Truth" or "Facts" I am looking for the more positive side of our little elemental community to shine through.

Right I will start us off.

Welcome to Elemental Jon!!   I admire alot of aspects of your previous work and based on what Brad and others say about you I feel you are a great fit for the job role they have given you here. You seem to have a good sense of humor and I hope over time these forums come to feel like a second home to you (that is unless you already have more than one home, in which case more like a 3rd or 4th home).

Ps: Is it true that you once saved a whole group of kittens from almost certain death with just great game design alone?  If it is that's pretty awesome man.

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January 5, 2011 3:31:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Glad to have another talented person hired by Stardock to improve Elemental.

 

I wasn't happy with Civilization 5 but I think 2K Games deserves a lion's share of the blame there.

 

Also, no one is perfect. Lord knows, I'm not.

 

So welcome Jon Shafer.

 

 

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January 5, 2011 3:35:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm perfect.  My mom says so.

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January 5, 2011 5:26:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ah another dev to bitch and moan at and abuse

 

Such a great day.

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January 5, 2011 5:58:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
I'm perfect.  My mom says so.

 

I second, he is a LORD (my guess is he is THE lord, xia is just to make him unrecognizable on the forum... sneaky little bastard ) Oh by the way, I don't know you but Welcome aboard.

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January 5, 2011 8:42:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting rebelito,



Yes. It's called "paying for a product" in this part of the world... how is it called in yours?
Except you are talking about an upcoming purchase being delayed. As in you don't even own the game. Get lost troll.

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January 5, 2011 8:53:19 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting rebelito,


This is your chance, boy. Show me wrong!

This is the lamest comment I've seen all week. This guy seems to be channeling True Grit as imagined by a 14-year-old.

 

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January 5, 2011 10:31:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I know what you're thinking. "Did he write six posts or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a an internet nerd-rage post, the most powerful post in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

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January 6, 2011 12:01:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting dragoaskani,



Quoting rebelito,
reply 19



Yes. It's called "paying for a product" in this part of the world... how is it called in yours?Except you are talking about an upcoming purchase being delayed. As in you don't even own the game. Get lost troll.

 

No, I'm talking about Civ5. Get lost, analphabet.

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January 6, 2011 12:40:23 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting rebelito,

Quoting dragoaskani, reply 30


Quoting rebelito,
reply 19



Yes. It's called "paying for a product" in this part of the world... how is it called in yours?Except you are talking about an upcoming purchase being delayed. As in you don't even own the game. Get lost troll.


 

No, I'm talking about Civ5. Get lost, analphabet.

 

Something people should think very carefully about before having children:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdaDOmpqTbI&feature=fvsr

 

"This is scarier than a Wes Craven film."

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January 6, 2011 12:39:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting tetleytea,
He looks like a pretty young guy.  It's possible at Firaxis he got walked all over by more senior guys.   That's what it's looking like to me.  And if that's the case, leaving Firaxis and getting your name off of Civ V is the right thing to do.  If Civ V can't be saved, then at least cut your losses and try to save your own rep.

 

I really think that is the most likely scenario.  The ideas themselves were great, but the reality of deadlines+budgets+politics imposes its own vision on the products.

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January 6, 2011 12:41:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Welcome, I am excited to see what comes out of this!

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January 6, 2011 1:14:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So I may to be taking this thread off the rails by asking this but...

How was Civ V ruined? I haven't played it yet so I'm curious but I have played Civ IV and its expansions.

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January 6, 2011 1:44:32 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting TheProgress,
So I may to be taking this thread off the rails by asking this but...

How was Civ V ruined? I haven't played it yet so I'm curious but I have played Civ IV and its expansions.

 

here's a great writeup: http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html

scroll to the bottom for an outline of the glaring design flaws

but remember shafer and the dev team aren't responsible because nobody is held accountable these days for anything, it's all deux ex machina

thinking about it, I bet it was 2k who came up with the gameplay concepts, etc and decided to completely ignore everything that was learned from civ1-civ4, yes that's how the industry works, I'm sure of it!

 

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January 6, 2011 1:57:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I smell brown-nosers in this room.

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January 6, 2011 1:57:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Onto the note of character assassination... I don't hate Shafer.

I'd be more than satisfied if he'd come here and make a post fessing up to the fact that the design decisions made in Civ5 turned out to be terrible and that the game sucks.

People will tell you "but wait!  you are just a forum troll and the critical reception was magnificent!" 

A reviewer is under a very tight time constraint to play a game and get a review written, particularly before launch.  The problems with civ5 aren't immediately evident, but play a few games and they come to the surface.  Look at the critical acclaim for Empire: Total War at launch; is there anyone who can argue that game wasn't an outright disaster?

Metacritic is full of games that garner critical acclaim but in reality are shitheaps.  Gaming journalism is rife with two-bit hacks.

Back to civ5 - have a look at how many people are playing multiplayer.  For a game that sold as well as it did, where is the multiplayer community?  I'm not just talking the "pro" ladder league guys, but also the casual players.  Multiplayer is a deserted wasteland.

Maybe Shafer will do great things at Stardock.  I hope he does and wish him luck.  But at the same time, let's not play politician when it comes to the blame game; there's no pussyfooting around the fact that civ5 is fundamentally broken by bad game design.  Shafer himself claimed that their dev model favored the lead designer and his vision giving him a unique role in directly impacting the game and driving it.  Backpedal that all you want, but the fact remains he bears the brunt of responsibility there.

Starting to feel more like politicians than game devs with all the doubletalk and claims that we, the ignorant masses, can't possibly understand the complexities involved!

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January 6, 2011 2:20:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Femmefatal48,
I smell brown-nosers in this room.
Very nice from someone who was begging very recently to his/her/it forum brothers and sisters help in a personal vendetta against someone in another forum.

 How sweet!

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January 6, 2011 2:21:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting TheProgress,
So I may to be taking this thread off the rails by asking this but...

How was Civ V ruined? I haven't played it yet so I'm curious but I have played Civ IV and its expansions.

 

It wasn't ruined, it's just very different than IV.  Some people like the changes, and some don't...

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January 6, 2011 2:26:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wintersong,



Quoting Femmefatal48,
reply 39
I smell brown-nosers in this room.Very nice from someone who was begging very recently to his/her/it forum brothers and sisters help in a personal vendetta against someone in another forum.


 How sweet!

Sorry azz but I didn't "beg" anybody to do anything. Now you smell like the biggest brown-noser of them all. Getcha a goood smell now. baw haw haw haw haw

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January 6, 2011 2:29:08 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

There is a big difference between broken and different.

If the automatic transmission on your new car goes at 50,000 miles because it's using a new unproven design, is it broken or different?

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January 6, 2011 2:46:42 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Leaving aside the comments from the apparently 5-year Femmefatal... 

Lots of people think Civ 5 is fine - many people don't. As is usually the case, those who don't are much louder on forums...

Full disclosure - haven't played Civ 5 because my interest in the Civ franchise has waned. But played all the others, and though I liked it a lot, Civ 4 had its flaws too. Certainly not a perfect game, and got to be a real drag near the end.

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January 6, 2011 3:04:00 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

"lots of people think civ 5 is fine" 

There are demonstrable gameplay issues (I'm not even counting the bugs).  This isn't opinion, these are proven facts.  I'm more than willing to hear someone refute the points brought up in anything I've posted, but the only defense anyone ever gives is generic stuff along the lines of what you just posted.  "oh not everyone hates it"

Every one acts like this is some witch hunt because a few hardcore civ4 players are angry at the changes.  I'm all for change, but broken gameplay is broken gameplay any way you look at it.

 

 

 

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January 6, 2011 3:36:54 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'm sure there are demonstrable gameplay issues, perhaps even serious ones. I never suggested that there weren't. Never seen a game without them. If in your estimation, they make the game unplayable and you don't play as a result, then you are expressing your opinion in the clearest way possible.

Not sure what the reference to "everyone" is - I don't assume you're a hardcore Civ4 player - maybe Civ5 is the first Civ game you've ever played.

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January 6, 2011 3:37:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Domicron,
There are demonstrable gameplay issues (I'm not even counting the bugs).

 

This is true, but some people have fun with the game in spite of these issues.  There's no big issue that's a deal breaker for me.

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January 6, 2011 3:44:01 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Jon Shafer,
Thanks all, looking forward to helping make Elemental and future Stardock games amazing.

And stirring up a bit of trouble on the forums from time to time, of course.

Jon

Yo Mr.Shafer... you better turn EWoM fun... LOL. Welcome aboard... hows it feel to join this madhouse?

oh, fyi... im the curt a-hole drunkard; nice to meet you.

 Seriously though... better go work now before more forum 's threaten to eat you or something...(its the something part that worries me

)

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January 6, 2011 3:51:16 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Ah the old "fun" argument.  That's great.  I mean, great that you are having fun with your toy but it's incredibly boring to those of us who like to be challenged.  In this case, the broken gameplay mechanics mean that theres really not much room for strategies; it's all "infinite city sprawl."  This in turn has gutted multiplayer because it turns into those who know the strategy and win and those who are "just having fun" and get stomped.  The beauty of civ4 was that there were many different approaches that could be taken;  small empires could compete with large ones, etc.  Civ5 comes down to ICS; more cities is the key to victory.  

Hey Shafer get in here and tell me you made a bad game so I can go away.  I just want you to read sulla's analysis of the bad design choices made and nod in agreement.  Hindsight is 20/20.  You obviously didn't set out to be the guy who took civ in a bad direction, but it happened.  Unless you are willing to see your own faults, why should we trust anything you do for stardock?

God forbid we have some transparency, eh?

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