Stardock hires Civ 5 lead designer Jon Shafer

By on January 4, 2011 5:26:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

HallowedBMy...

Join Date 02/2010
+1

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/67016

 

Um, wow. This can only lead to good things.

Arg, you beat me to it: http://forums.elementalgame.com/403448/get;2859792

Locked Post 261 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 18, 2011 12:29:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I find this news good as I found Civ5 fun and good. It had its bug but nothing even close to Elemental. Also at this moment Civ5 is still a better, more polished and a more complete product then Elemental is. I finished Civ5 with all possible victories. I have yet to finish Elemental once.

 

Sword of the Stars is also a streamlined space 4x game but it is also miles ahead of Elemental in polish and content. So, welcome aboard Jon. I hope you can help make this game as fun as it should be.

With combat in this game actually being one unit per tile you can do you magic

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 18, 2011 4:51:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Someone said we are just sitting around trying to suck up to Jon? No way in hell. If I ever met him perosnally, and the situation warrented it, i would ask him what the hell happened with Civ V. The first thing I would ask is, "How the hell did those rivers ever get in the game."

But this is not Civ V. No matter how much I think he butchered up the game, I am willing him to give him another chance. Everybody deserves a second chance.  MY GOD it is only a game. (I still am on the 2K forums bellyaching about the game, but I do it there) Jon is not there anymore, and he even asked for him to prove himself.

For someone to ask to let himself prove himself is alot for anyone to ask. For anyone not to give it to him, speaks Volumes of that persons character. For not to give Jon a second chance when he asked to prove himself, is well.... just low of you.

You are no better than Jon then and actually a worse of person then. Get of your high horse. Nobody is sucking up to Jon.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 11:13:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

For the record..I dont own CiV or Elemental..I'm a Galciver who thinks industry reform and the GBoR is important.

Shafer is toxic assets because his ACTIONS (since apparently the Stardock plan is to withhold his words from us) showed when GBoR values are on the line he will choose self interest over the consumer. Stardock cant hire a guy like that and still sell the GBoR to the industry with any sort of credibility. Its not about ciV or Shafer -its about the message this hiring sends to the industry.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 11:26:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
For the record..I dont own CiV or Elemental..I'm a Galciver who thinks industry reform and the GBoR is important.

Shafer is toxic assets because his ACTIONS (since apparently the Stardock plan is to withhold his words from us) showed when GBoR values are on the line he will choose self interest over the consumer. Stardock cant hire a guy like that and still sell the GBoR to the industry with any sort of credibility. Its not about ciV or Shafer -its about the message this hiring sends to the industry.

 

I just don't understand your level of "give-a-shit" on this topic.  Or your point of view...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 3:00:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
For the record..I dont own CiV or Elemental..I'm a Galciver who thinks industry reform and the GBoR is important.

Shafer is toxic assets because his ACTIONS (since apparently the Stardock plan is to withhold his words from us) showed when GBoR values are on the line he will choose self interest over the consumer. Stardock cant hire a guy like that and still sell the GBoR to the industry with any sort of credibility. Its not about ciV or Shafer -its about the message this hiring sends to the industry.

 

If you've never played Civ5, how can you have any valid opinion on the quality of Civ5 or Jon Shafer's work on it? You may actually like it, or at least not think it's a huge piece of crap.

Agree with Lord Xia - just don't understand your vehemence on this issue. Seems more than a little obsessive and your language is consistently inflammatory.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 5:21:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've already explained my motivation and I dont need your permission to have an opinion about the hiring of Jon Shafer. If you want to discuss the points I brought up about this hiring damaging the GBoR thats fine but stop trying to distract from the topic.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 6:16:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
When did the gaming industry start following Kindergarten rules ? We should embrace him because he "tried" hard ? Did the "best" he could ? You dont know that. Jon has been silent and sheltered by Frogboy and Stardock. The story is a bit misty atm. Wheres the transparency Brad ?

Regardless of what you thought of CiV Shafer stayed on while decisions were made that violate the GBoA. He didnt quit, he didnt speak out and he did what was good for his career not what was good for the consumer. What is the point of setting industry standards if even the parton of these standards ignores them when it benefits them to do so.

Shafer needs to face some music and answer hard questions publicly and Stadock needs to walk their talk or stop pretending to be any different than any of the other gaming corps out there. You know amazingly enough..some people learn to ride their bike quicker because they fall off and fall hard. Facing the music might benefit the guy.

So you never fought a losing battle at work over a decision you didn't agree with?  You have never, ever voiced your concern with a decision and then, in the interest of company harmony and moving on, accepted the group decision and gotten back to work?  Not once?  Not ever?  

How do you know that isn't exactly what happened?  How do you know that Shafer didn't throw a fit over some decisions, scream and holler at his team and bosses, and then back down at the last second because he realized that he was in the minority.  Not to mention that he had to work, like everyone else, in order to provide for the people in his life and the lifestyle they had?  

Your whole argument falls apart before it ever gets off the ground because you assume you know what happened within Firaxis that turned Civ V into the product it is (whether you like it or not).  

And of course, he should face the music and answer questions publicly  just to satisfy your nerd-rage.  Even though such an action would irreparably damage his career.  As someone who lives with more NDAs than I care to count, they're not to be tossed aside at the slightest convenience.  Not if you have any respect of your own word and not if you value your reputation as a reliable, trustworthy employee.  And not if you value the money you've earned while working under the NDA.  

Seriously, you honestly think that he should violate his word, break a binding contract with his last employer, and risk his and his family's livelihood just to satisfy you?  Who the hell are you?  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 7:07:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
Yea, that 90 metacritic score is a real albatross around Jon's neck, I'm surprised anyone would want to hire him.  I mean, why couldn't he have gotten a 100? 

 

You don't like the game.  That's it.  Just because you and some other basement dwelling troglodytes on some video game forums, places of rancid hatred  and desperate virginity, don't like a game, that doesn't mean everyone has come to the same conclusion.  Jon should close the door by slamming it in your face.  You don't like it?  So what?  Doesn't owe you shit.  Bitch once and move on.

 

I think I am in love with you. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 10:06:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

RE: Kantok #232

who am i(we) ?

I'm a customer who is supposedly covered by the Gamers bill of rights - at least in regard to STardock products. I'm not say Shafer has to do anything. He's obviously already made his choice to remain silent. Stardock has made their choice too by hiring him with zero transparency on the matter so the next time Frogboy posts a rant about how "for the people" Stardock at least will all know its just PR spin we cant rely on since their values will fly out the window at the next "big" opportunity.

And you've made my point for me - I dont know if Shafer kicked and screamed over the choices made. We will likely never know because he chooses not to tell us. So we can only judge him based on his actions - and he stayed around, took his paycheck and remained silent instead of being a leader and putting the consumer first. I bet the guy got a golden parachute too.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 10:25:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
RE: Kantok #232

who am i(we) ?

I'm a customer who is supposedly covered by the Gamers bill of rights - at least in regard to STardock products. I'm not say Shafer has to do anything. He's obviously already made his choice to remain silent. Stardock has made their choice too by hiring him with zero transparency on the matter so the next time Frogboy posts a rant about how "for the people" Stardock at least will all know its just PR spin we cant rely on since their values will fly out the window at the next "big" opportunity.

And you've made my point for me - I dont know if Shafer kicked and screamed over the choices made. We will likely never know because he chooses not to tell us. So we can only judge him based on his actions - and he stayed around, took his paycheck and remained silent instead of being a leader and putting the consumer first. I bet the guy got a golden parachute too.

You're playing with words.  He's not "choosing not to tell you".  He's legally obligated not to tell you.  You want him to risk his career and livelihood just to satisfy you?  A tad bit egotistical if you ask me.  

And as for Stardock's "PR spin", all I know is that I bought a game I was very excited about eight months early just so I could beta test it.  The game came out and was highly disappointing.  One of the most disappointing games I've ever purchased in fact.  The owner of the company apologized and publicly explained at length why the game was a disappointment.  And then offered me not one, but two, free expansion packs to make up for my disappointment.  

Brad's, and Stardock's, reputation will survive the faux rage.  In fact, I have more respect for the company now than I did when I ordered the game in order to beta-test nothing but a figurine moving around on a cloth map.  

But you're right, their values certainly fly out the window at the first big opportunity.  I mean, it's not like they gave away $50 or $60 worth of expansion packs to thousands of customers or anything as a means of apologizing for the terrible launch.  They obviously shredded their values in pursuit of a quick buck.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 11:35:55 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

It's interesting that you are assigning value to products that aren't even released yet. I don't agree with your conclusions, but I see where you are coming from.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 19, 2011 11:48:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
For the record..I dont own CiV or Elemental..I'm a Galciver who thinks industry reform and the GBoR is important.

Shafer is toxic assets because his ACTIONS (since apparently the Stardock plan is to withhold his words from us) showed when GBoR values are on the line he will choose self interest over the consumer. Stardock cant hire a guy like that and still sell the GBoR to the industry with any sort of credibility. Its not about ciV or Shafer -its about the message this hiring sends to the industry.

 

You are a troll. You know damn why no one can say anything because of NDA's.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 7:24:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nesrie,
It's interesting that you are assigning value to products that aren't even released yet. I don't agree with your conclusions, but I see where you are coming from.

If you're replying to me, the values I used were just the middle values between expansion pack and new game, which seems to be where the expansions are going to fall.  

And to my larger point, the values are irrelevant.  They could sell for $10 or $15 apiece and my point stands.  Brad is paying a team of dedicated people and spending his resources on the order of high six figures per year at minimum and then giving me their output for free because they feel that the original launch was enough of a disappointment to warrant it.  That sort of thing doesn't speak to greed.  It shows that someone made a mistake, recognizes it, and is trying to make up for it.  

I stand by my point.  I have more respect for them now than I have ever had.  It's easy to be customer friendly when times are great.  It's much harder to be so when it's your own money on the line.  

If you weren't replying to me... /shrug.  I had nothing else to do before work today anyway.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 8:59:07 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting HsojVvad,
Someone said we are just sitting around trying to suck up to Jon? No way in hell. If I ever met him perosnally, and the situation warrented it, i would ask him what the hell happened with Civ V. The first thing I would ask is, "How the hell did those rivers ever get in the game."

At least they HAVE rivers in the game.  Maybe the Stardock team can ask him that question... "How the hell do we get rivers in the game??"

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 9:34:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
RE: Kantok #232

who am i(we) ?

I'm a customer who is supposedly covered by the Gamers bill of rights - at least in regard to STardock products. I'm not say Shafer has to do anything. He's obviously already made his choice to remain silent. Stardock has made their choice too by hiring him with zero transparency on the matter so the next time Frogboy posts a rant about how "for the people" Stardock at least will all know its just PR spin we cant rely on since their values will fly out the window at the next "big" opportunity.

And you've made my point for me - I dont know if Shafer kicked and screamed over the choices made. We will likely never know because he chooses not to tell us. So we can only judge him based on his actions - and he stayed around, took his paycheck and remained silent instead of being a leader and putting the consumer first. I bet the guy got a golden parachute too.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/403506/get;2861666

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 10:16:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am looking forward to the day when Frogboy announces he hired the Geico gecko as Stardock's new official spokesman. 

 

Or did he hire Stanley?

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 10:22:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I should be the Stardock Mascot! 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 10:38:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Then our panel of 3 judges are going to have to put you through a rigorous interview process.  First, we need to see how far you can jump.  Second, we need to assess your ability to catch bugs from 4 inches away with your tongue.  Third, we will need to reference check all your childhood friends and see if they and you could breathe underwater.  After that your resume will be entered in our database and if a match comes up we will surely contact you.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 11:02:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, I'm a white fat geek, so I can barely jump at all...my tongue can't compare to a lizards or even Gene Simmons...and I don't think I can go much more than a minute holding my breath underwater.  But!!!  I am funny, as seen by my many post here.I am adorable, just ask my mom.  I'm a good boyfreind, I drove my girl last night at 4am to the gas station to get cigarettes and mello yello in a snow storm.  Okay, maybe P-whipped is a better term...BUT, I have played the dick off of Elemental!  I should totally be the Mascot! 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 11:11:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Based on those qualifications, I think you should be the next Bachelor on ABC.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 20, 2011 9:59:29 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kantok,



Quoting Nesrie,
reply 236
It's interesting that you are assigning value to products that aren't even released yet. I don't agree with your conclusions, but I see where you are coming from.


If you're replying to me, the values I used were just the middle values between expansion pack and new game, which seems to be where the expansions are going to fall.  

And to my larger point, the values are irrelevant.  They could sell for $10 or $15 apiece and my point stands.  Brad is paying a team of dedicated people and spending his resources on the order of high six figures per year at minimum and then giving me their output for free because they feel that the original launch was enough of a disappointment to warrant it.  That sort of thing doesn't speak to greed.  It shows that someone made a mistake, recognizes it, and is trying to make up for it.  

I stand by my point.  I have more respect for them now than I have ever had.  It's easy to be customer friendly when times are great.  It's much harder to be so when it's your own money on the line.  

If you weren't replying to me... /shrug.  I had nothing else to do before work today anyway.

You're the one that gave an exact number, a number you pulled out of nowhere. I also said value, not price. Price and value are not the same.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 21, 2011 12:57:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nesrie,

Quoting Kantok, reply 238


Quoting Nesrie,
reply 236
It's interesting that you are assigning value to products that aren't even released yet. I don't agree with your conclusions, but I see where you are coming from.


If you're replying to me, the values I used were just the middle values between expansion pack and new game, which seems to be where the expansions are going to fall.  

And to my larger point, the values are irrelevant.  They could sell for $10 or $15 apiece and my point stands.  Brad is paying a team of dedicated people and spending his resources on the order of high six figures per year at minimum and then giving me their output for free because they feel that the original launch was enough of a disappointment to warrant it.  That sort of thing doesn't speak to greed.  It shows that someone made a mistake, recognizes it, and is trying to make up for it.  

I stand by my point.  I have more respect for them now than I have ever had.  It's easy to be customer friendly when times are great.  It's much harder to be so when it's your own money on the line.  

If you weren't replying to me... /shrug.  I had nothing else to do before work today anyway.


You're the one that gave an exact number, a number you pulled out of nowhere. I also said value, not price. Price and value are not the same.

What's your point?  I never pretended not to have pulled the numbers from thin air.  They were part of a sarcastic-to-make-a-point closing, not part of some sort of pricing or value analysis. 

Without knowing prices I still know the value that their response and dedication gives me.  They have admitted their mistakes and are trying to make up for my disappointment with EWOM by dedicating resources to future projects and then not charging me for them.  Will they hit a home run with said projects?  Who knows.  Will I agree and love every design decision of EFE?  Probably not.  It's irrelevant.  They're trying to atone for past mistakes.  For now, that's enough for me.  

If you have some larger point than "price and value are not the same thing" than I missed it.  You're comment seemed irrelevant to my point.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 21, 2011 9:29:55 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kantok,



What's your point?  I never pretended not to have pulled the numbers from thin air.  They were part of a sarcastic-to-make-a-point closing, not part of some sort of pricing or value analysis. 

Without knowing prices I still know the value that their response and dedication gives me.  They have admitted their mistakes and are trying to make up for my disappointment with EWOM by dedicating resources to future projects and then not charging me for them.  Will they hit a home run with said projects?  Who knows.  Will I agree and love every design decision of EFE?  Probably not.  It's irrelevant.  They're trying to atone for past mistakes.  For now, that's enough for me.  

If you have some larger point than "price and value are not the same thing" than I missed it.  You're comment seemed irrelevant to my point.

 

You have no idea what they are going to release in these expansion packs just as most people had no idea how bad the game was going to be at release. If you want to throw your blind loyalty around, go ahead. I think you should thank them for the expansion packs they are giving people AFTER you actually see what you wind up getting. You also don't get to choose what is relevant to other people by the way. Your blind loyalty is perfectly relevant to me since it was blind loyalty and head petting that got us to the point where gamesl like EWOM 1.0 are even being released today.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 22, 2011 12:33:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nesrie,

Quoting Kantok, reply 247

You have no idea what they are going to release in these expansion packs just as most people had no idea how bad the game was going to be at release. If you want to throw your blind loyalty around, go ahead. I think you should thank them for the expansion packs they are giving people AFTER you actually see what you wind up getting. You also don't get to choose what is relevant to other people by the way. Your blind loyalty is perfectly relevant to me since it was blind loyalty and head petting that got us to the point where gamesl like EWOM 1.0 are even being released today.

Blind loyalty?  They've already committed enough resources to fund development through 2011.  They're launching a new game.  I'm getting it for free because they screwed up the launch of the last game.  That's not blind loyalty.  That's fact.  

Do I expect the game to be good?  Yes.  Because they've talked at length on the forums about what they think went wrong with the EWOM launch and what they're doing to correct those problems.  And also because I've been in PM roles where projects have gone wrong for reasons like Brad says the EWOM team went through.  The issues Brad described during his many AARs and what resulted are entirely believable.  

I think that their openness about what has transpired and their commitment to try and provide a better experience to the customers who bought into EWOM early on earns them loyalty.  

I don't believe that people should be destroyed for their mistakes as long as they acknowledge them, learn from them, and don't repeat them.  

Now, if EFE ends up being a disaster too, I'd change my opinion.  But based on what I've seen in the way of openness and what Stardock is attempting to do to earn back my trust, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  

As for my "blind loyalty" being relevant to you, I don't particularly give a damn one way or the other.  I was critical of things I thought were warranted during beta.  I also praise things that deserve to be praised.  If they deserve to be criticized for the launch they equally deserve to be praised for how they've handled things since.  You couldn't have scripted a much better developer response to a failed game launch that what we've gotten with Elemental.  We've been promised (and provided a few) fixes.  Given word of free content in the future as repayment.  Given ample insider details on how and why the problems occurred and what is being done to fix it.  What else could you possibly want?  What developer has ever handled a failed launch better?  

Short of having a magic "Fix-It" button to push and make all your Elemental dreams come true, there's not much more they could have done since launch.  

Seriously.. what else do you want? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 22, 2011 12:47:35 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Nesrie,
You have no idea what they are going to release in these expansion packs just as most people had no idea how bad the game was going to be at release. If you want to throw your blind loyalty around, go ahead. I think you should thank them for the expansion packs they are giving people AFTER you actually see what you wind up getting. You also don't get to choose what is relevant to other people by the way. Your blind loyalty is perfectly relevant to me since it was blind loyalty and head petting that got us to the point where gamesl like EWOM 1.0 are even being released today.

 

That post is rude and uncalled for.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108432  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000235   Page Render Time: