1.1 , last chance failure?

By on December 15, 2010 8:27:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

ebelser

Join Date 02/2006
0

Okay, so I kept my mouth shut and waited for the great 1.1 patch; finally get it and less than 1 hour into my first game it CTDs.

I now really feel like the money I spent on this game was a complete waste and I will not be buying another Stardock product unless it has been out a year and half a dozen of my friends swear to how good it is.

I could have dealt with a much more modest revamp game play and balance-wise if it was *stable*! To have strung people along this long and put out something still this crash happy is just unbelievable.

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December 16, 2010 12:38:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have never crashed before or after the 1.1 patch..   Too many people download copious quantities of porn/illegal music, and expect their computers to function perfectly.  I blame the OP for downloading massive quantities of porn.

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December 16, 2010 12:57:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I haven't had any CTD's with 1.1 and I didn't with any of the later beta's either. Before that I did, but it didn't exactly shatter my world tbh.

Everyone's rig is slightly different to everyone elses and so I guess some people will have problems.

This isn't just a Stardock issue btw- Most games I own have CTD'd or locked up at some point. Civ 5 does it all the time, as does Fallout NV. In my view, that's not really that big a deal- its a minor irritation, i'll grant you, but with Elemental I've got an autosave that at the most is 5 turns old- I just load that.

This is part and parcel of PC gaming isn't it? Its the price we pay for the complex hardware and software that we're dealing with.

 

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December 16, 2010 1:28:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

^Well said, JayJay. I look at it the same way. There are no grounds to claim that there should be less incompatibility problems between software and hardware nowadays then before.

There are also so many variables which could cause said incompatibility or CTDs of software thats it too easy to say its bad programming on the part of the software's devs.

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December 16, 2010 1:32:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I skimmed a bit of this thread, and I have a few things to say:

 

Those who argue that it's not their rigs and get offended when people say that it is, need to realize that it is the rigs themselves that cause the issues. Yes, Elemental itself has some issues with design that makes it less flexible as far as running on every single machine configuration, but it's also in part because our computers are so diverse. I built my computer myself and while the performance is amazing, I understand that it leads to crashes every once in a while.

 

Luckily I keep my autosave enabled, and so when the game does crash I just jump right back in because it takes just a minute to reload everything.

 

Also, I have fewer crashes on the smaller maps. (I love playing on "The Real Feague" or however it's spelled) Larger maps have more resources, more empires, and more monsters, meaning more crashes because every time something happens there's that .01% chance that something's going wrong. If you have 250 things going on at any one time, or during any one turn change (Especially with the multithreaded AI meaning crashes won't always happen at turns) then you've got an increased chance of crashing.

 

Since the 1.1 mid betas I haven't had OOM crashes - In part because I control my map size, but also, even after 400 turns (I used to only get about 100-200 before OOM) my game memory is still at a steady 1.2gb and the turns end as quickly as the start of the game even with full empires of multiple cities.

 

There's also those people that claim they've had crashing issues all through the beta (Which, it was a beta for a reason) even though 1.09 wasn't crashing for them. If they suddenly started having issues, then they should have been sending in their debug files.

 

This isn't something that we as users should be arguing about. It is a program. It works for some people, it doesn't for others. It's fun for some, it isn't for others. That's the end of it. Having a thread erupt out of nowhere that is complaining in such a way about the game is just going to cause people to either join in on trashing the game, or get out soap boxes, or argue about what the other person is doing wrong. I'm not even sure why I'm replying due to the fact that I don't care all that much about any of it. I'm just tired and needed somewhere to rant about something.

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December 16, 2010 1:36:39 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Pojman,
I have never crashed before or after the 1.1 patch..   Too many people download copious quantities of porn/illegal music, and expect their computers to function perfectly.  I blame the OP for downloading massive quantities of porn.

You, sir, owner of the Untainted Windows (TM) computer (pure as the freshly fallen snow), are going to Elemental Heaven, while I, the despicable, dastardly, demonic downloader of porn, am experiencing some crashes and going to Elemental Hell..

Edit ps: The crashes could also be explained based on your post and of FrogBoss' subliminal aspirations of becoming a softporn peddler.

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December 16, 2010 2:03:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Just a real quick note here:

While some problems people run into are indeed due to hardware configurations, in my experience, the difference has to do with the way people play the game. 

For example, consider city building. Some people manually place each improvement. Others just click on the build button. And still others (like me) just double clicked on the build list.  

Well, the last would sometimes cause a crash because of the multithreaded nature of Elemental (this really can't be stressed enough -- consider the scope of Elemental in terms of sheer number of "things" going on and compare it to other games in this genre and consider how quickly things happen (end of turn and general responsiveness).  The reason this happens is because of threading.

So what would happen is that the UI thread would send out a message that I had tried to build something but the main thread would remove that imp from its vector and because I was running a quad-core machine, it means both would happen at about the same time and hence there was a chance that one thread would be looking at a vector that had been destroyed.  On a dual core machine (let alone a single core) this would never realistically happen.

I realize that these kinds of things are frustrating. They frustrate me too.  But this is why some (most) people really have few problems and why some people have a LOT of problems.  They're things we can and will address in subsequent updates but they're not so much bugs as much as dealing with unintended consequences of a design choice.

Hopefully, most people that know us knwo that we're not going anywhere. And hopefully those of you who are technical recognize the long-term benefit of what we're doing and why because it'll mean much MUCH more sophisticated games (Elemental for a start but also our future strategy games as well).  Kumquat (our engine) is very new and unfortunately has had some obvious teething issues which we're very sorry about.  We are aware of it but you should have no problem going to your autosave and continuing while we sort it out.

Anyway, we're here for you guys.  We're a privately held company. We are with you guys on this game for the long haul.

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December 16, 2010 2:08:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

To add to Brad's point, I wish everyone who crashes would post the crashes!  Let Stardock fix them before I crash.

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December 16, 2010 2:10:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

A few hundred turns in and no crashes.  A rather odd bug at one point though - some of my (Gilden) cities started appearing with names and stats of neighbouring Magnar cities.  Was just the on-map UI and didn't affect gameplay and it disappeared after a few turns.  I wiped out Magnar in revenge 

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December 16, 2010 2:34:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting astrath,
A few hundred turns in and no crashes.  A rather odd bug at one point though - some of my (Gilden) cities started appearing with names and stats of neighbouring Magnar cities.  Was just the on-map UI and didn't affect gameplay and it disappeared after a few turns.  I wiped out Magnar in revenge 

 

I have had this very same exact problem- and reported on it in the beta.  I've had it since launch.  I still wonder why this occurs.

 

It is just the on-map UI, if you build something in the town it reverts back.

 

As for the issues with Kumquat- my feeling is by putting up with it, when Stardock makes their next game, it's going to help make it awesome. 

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December 16, 2010 2:52:01 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Seems absolutley brilliant to me , halfway create a game and then get people to pay you in order to help you find all the bugs and problems. Don't get mad at stardock because you are an idiot.

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December 16, 2010 3:05:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can't think of one game I've played in the last 3 years that has never had a CTD; Starcraft 2, Dragon Age, all the supreme commander games. I've had a few CTD's with all of them. Unless the crashes are very common I try to avoid throwing my dummy out of the pram and storming of. I normally find that with the right drivers and options most games become pretty stable and if your lucky and dealing with a good developer like stardock you know they will keep bug hunting as long as it takes, (not to be taken for granted some developers fire and forget so to speak).

 

Anyway to the OP, see you them I'm off to enjoy Elemental.

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December 16, 2010 3:23:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't really see how there is so much more going on than any other game. Most TBS games are packed with stuff. However, i will admit that the end of turns in fast, like, blazing fast. I remember back on age of shadows, you would be on turn 50+, hit end turn, and go take a nap before the AI would finish up.

Honestly, i feel that the total number of people with crash problems is way down.

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December 16, 2010 4:06:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oddly enough, based on Frogboys post i should have a higher probability of crashing since I am running a quad core machine, yet I have only crashed a handful of times since 1.0 release.

I did crash about two days prior to 1.1 being released but I didn't even bother posting since 1.1 was supposed to becoming fairly quickly.  I am well into 1000 "seasons" and have not crashed with 1.1.  I think I fell asleep one time at my computer (ran out of coffee) but I am assuming you mean the computer crashing and not me personally.

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December 16, 2010 5:49:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Just a real quick note here:

While some problems people run into are indeed due to hardware configurations, in my experience, the difference has to do with the way people play the game.

I'm playing the game the same way I was in the betas.  What frustrates me is that the late betas (s/t onward) did NOT crash, but the final release does.  What changed between the betas and the release??

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December 16, 2010 7:24:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The game should change its name from Elemental War of Magic to Elemental War of the Beta Testers...with all this squabbling going on between users.  My experience with 1.1: it did crash after about a good 2 hours of play...I should have saved, but was so hopeful that 1.1 would be the fix all and have the same stability as 1.09v....WRONG.

In addition, played the game on normal and challenging...the AI still seems a little wimpy.  On challenging, the wandering monsers seem to constantly harass my settlements, farms, etc, but the AI for the factions seems to be AWOL.  For instance, one faction declared war on me and then never invaded my territory (50 turns later still no invasion)...Maybe the AI just couldn't figure how to get around the mountain range.

Bottom line...I am glad that Stardock and Brad and his team have put the effort to make this game better than the original lease.  You guys are getting warmer, but not quite there yet. 

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December 16, 2010 8:14:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wintersong,
Yes, some of you have failed your 1.1 chance. Don't be back and save yourselves some frustration.

Those who truly care about the game and/or their money spent on it, there is a Support subforum awaiting for your issues reports. Some issues will get resolved sooner than others but that's to be expected.

 

Telling people not to come back is counterproductive.  No one's being outright abusive. 

 

One thing I've learned from seeing this, is that fantasy TBS's haven't been done that much, because balancing things out is REALLY hard.  A lot harder then a space TBS.

 

(This is making me stoked for GalCiv 3 now- I can see a bunch of good features in Elemental that would solve the problems GC2 had)

 

 

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December 16, 2010 9:14:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,

Quoting Wintersong, reply 24Yes, some of you have failed your 1.1 chance. Don't be back and save yourselves some frustration.

Those who truly care about the game and/or their money spent on it, there is a Support subforum awaiting for your issues reports. Some issues will get resolved sooner than others but that's to be expected.
 

Telling people not to come back is counterproductive.  No one's being outright abusive. 

 

One thing I've learned from seeing this, is that fantasy TBS's haven't been done that much, because balancing things out is REALLY hard.  A lot harder then a space TBS.

 

(This is making me stoked for GalCiv 3 now- I can see a bunch of good features in Elemental that would solve the problems GC2 had)

 

 

 

Yes, some are being outright abusive but it is the game's defenders and not it's detractors who have had the worst showing. The "Elemental Faction" has become quite angry, abusive, and dismissive of everyone who hasn't had a sunshiney experience with the game.

"Blame the Poster/Machine" might as well be a mini-game here.

Bad forum behavior ends up being a long term issue. Just saying.

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December 16, 2010 9:34:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Elemental: War of the Beta Testers... I like the sound of that.  Where do I sign up?

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December 16, 2010 9:53:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd like to point out that this is a modern gen game that runs beautifully, at full settings, with no crashes, on my two year old laptop. Don't get discouraged if your super-machine can't run it.  And don't get mad at the developer. Get creative.

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December 16, 2010 10:26:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah...

 

I just played about four hours of Fallout New Vegas and it crashed six times. Much more than this game.

 

And this one doesn't have those stupid cazador flies that are apparently the most powerfull creature god ever shat.

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December 16, 2010 10:33:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
Elemental: War of the Beta Testers... I like the sound of that.  Where do I sign up?

 

Less war, more testing

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December 17, 2010 1:29:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Just figured I'd close this out; I've continued to try and play...game crashes every time within with the first 2 hours. Yes it is possible to recover from saves but that is enough of a nuisance to make me give up.

Honestly, the gameplay in this just isn't good enough to make me want to put up with constant reloading, endless support tickets and trying to tweak my machine (which runs everything else I have just fine).

Maybe I will check back in 6 months...but since Shogun II Total War and Space Marine will both be out by then...I doubt it...

 

 

 

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December 17, 2010 2:22:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

ebelser, after looking at your posts i notice that you have no bug reports. None. I feel for the people who crash, but if your going to crash, and make no reports i have 0 sympathy, none at all. Most likely you will continue to crash forever, because if you don't report a bug, then stardock has no way of even knowing it exists, much less fixing it.

If you want bugs fixed, REPORT THEM. Stay silent and nothing will be fixed.

Honestly, i think that is the biggest issue. all these people come in complaining that their game crashes, but provide no saves or debug.err or even a description of the crash. "Hi, i had a CTD, plz fix or i quit" and thats their whole post.

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December 17, 2010 3:14:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cerevox,
ebelser, after looking at your posts i notice that you have no bug reports. None. I feel for the people who crash, but if your going to crash, and make no reports i have 0 sympathy, none at all. Most likely you will continue to crash forever, because if you don't report a bug, then stardock has no way of even knowing it exists, much less fixing it.

If you want bugs fixed, REPORT THEM. Stay silent and nothing will be fixed.

Honestly, i think that is the biggest issue. all these people come in complaining that their game crashes, but provide no saves or debug.err or even a description of the crash. "Hi, i had a CTD, plz fix or i quit" and thats their whole post.

 

This wins the thread.

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December 17, 2010 3:49:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

99.99% of the people using computers don't have a clue.  I wouldn't be so quick to assume it's not a user created problem...

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