1.1 , last chance failure?

By on December 15, 2010 8:27:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

ebelser

Join Date 02/2006
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Okay, so I kept my mouth shut and waited for the great 1.1 patch; finally get it and less than 1 hour into my first game it CTDs.

I now really feel like the money I spent on this game was a complete waste and I will not be buying another Stardock product unless it has been out a year and half a dozen of my friends swear to how good it is.

I could have dealt with a much more modest revamp game play and balance-wise if it was *stable*! To have strung people along this long and put out something still this crash happy is just unbelievable.

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December 16, 2010 6:27:19 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Your first line was ok, you should have ended there. Your second line makes you look like an idiot.

A large percentage of people have issues, so it's NOT all because of their computers, not even close.

  • dang dude. Thats just rude.
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December 16, 2010 6:45:32 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I really don't get peoples self entitlement. Yes the game isn't perfect and there are still some stability issues but the game really has come along way in the last few months. If the game is a failure in your eyes then fine chalk it up to experience and quietly move on with your life or do what most of us here are doing and buy into to this game for long haul. That means leaveing constructive critisism and ideas for stardock not self entitled rants.

Rightly or wrongly you have spent £40 on a game which currently is not up to scratch. That £40 is gone but luckily the product is only going to get better and better. What do you gain by denouncing it and never playing it again? If the game is crashing so much that it is unplayable then get a refund and move on.

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December 16, 2010 7:11:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Though I am sympathetic to the players experiencing the CTD's, I agree about the attitude issue brought up above;

There is no denying Elemental was not in a good shape upon release. SD confirmed that on several accounts and has apologised for it. They even offer the first expansion free to anyone ordering until the end of the year and even the first AND second expansion free of charge for the early adopters! How's that for an apology, huh?

Do the complainers expect some sort of disclaimer with every patch apologising over and over again that the game is not finished yet and the devs kneel to every player experiencing problems?

We're past that. They have admitted the game's faults already enough. It's time to build now. And you can either contribute in a grown up manner to help improve the game, or just whine and scream like a little child in an unproductive manner.

Elemental needs work still. We all know that. And its nowhere denied. Yet the devs are very open to what the plans are and what and when they're planning to address certain issues or gameplay overhauls.
Stop the whining already, please!  

Everyone is allowed to express their critisicm, but it's the tone that makes the music.

 

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December 16, 2010 7:54:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The complainers expect the game to be working at this stage.

I started my first 1.1 game this morning, had only 20 minutes before going to work, and it crashed. I noticed a few minor bugs before that.

I'll send whatever info in a bug report to the support forum, but I haven't been able to locate a crash dump file so I'm not ery optimistic about their ability to solve the issue.

The 1.09beta (should it have been 1.1beta) was for some reason unplayable by me, so from my point of view, after 20 minutes of game, which is obviously too short to be a definitive opinion, the 1.1 is still in a beta state.

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December 16, 2010 8:22:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sure I understand that must be dissapointing.
But the game runs without crashes on other systems as well. There are thousands of configs out there and unfortunately its a given fact that games might have problems with certain configs. But its unfair to say the game is broken just because it crashes on your particular PC. The fact that it does run without crashes on others proves that its not the game alone, but a combination of game/PC config, but that wasn't my point in my previous post above..

Nonetheless it does suck when you cant play.

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December 16, 2010 8:32:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting LDiCesare,
from my point of view <snip> the 1.1 is still in a beta state.
Reality > your point of view.

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December 16, 2010 8:39:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm just curious, why all the rabid defenders assume that anyone posting with problems hasn't already done the things they suggest?

It's not like this is day 1 here; My drivers are up to date, I have a decent system and yes I have submitted reports over the months since launch...and the game has *never* been stable for me or many others. Is it playable? Barely, if I set autosave to 2-3 turns and just accept that I am going to have CTDs and have to reload 3,4,5 times per play session...

Sorry that I don't suffer from battered gamers syndrome and consider that acceptable.

The "every PC is different" defense really doesn't cut it in the modern game market...maybe you can make the case if it is wildly under game specs or some 'frankenputer...doesn't really apply to a 1yr old Alienware, now does it?

There are tiny, unheard of design shops from places like Hungary and Turkey who somehow manage to produce games that run just fine...yet after months post-launch Stardock can't? Please, it's hardly like there is even a single aspect of this game which should be pushing the capabilities of a good machine 10yrs ago.

As for "crying over it"...get a clue. I'm a customer, I'm unhappy with the product I paid for and I am expressing that unhappiness to the company after giving them plenty of chances to "make it right".

 

 

 

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December 16, 2010 8:56:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting HallowedBMyName,

Quoting Javaslinger, reply 16I have not had a crash since the game was released.....  not a single one...

 

must be your rigs
 

Your first line was ok, you should have ended there. Your second line makes you look like an idiot.

A large percentage of people have issues, so it's NOT all because of their computers, not even close.

Actually, your last line makes you look like an idiot...

 

It's not a large percentage... just the small loud complaining minority...

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December 16, 2010 9:10:50 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Back in the early GalCiV II days there was an issue that caused some GPUs to run hot and hard lock the system. I mean power down by switch, not hit the reset button.

It was pretty frustrating, but the bug reports and crash dumps came in and it was soon fixed.

If it were me, I would give them a little more time.

They care more than any other developer that I know.

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December 16, 2010 9:16:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ebelser,
I'm just curious, why all the rabid defenders assume that anyone posting with problems hasn't already done the things they suggest?

It's not like this is day 1 here; My drivers are up to date, I have a decent system and yes I have submitted reports over the months since launch...and the game has *never* been stable for me or many others. Is it playable? Barely, if I set autosave to 2-3 turns and just accept that I am going to have CTDs and have to reload 3,4,5 times per play session...

Sorry that I don't suffer from battered gamers syndrome and consider that acceptable.

The "every PC is different" defense really doesn't cut it in the modern game market...maybe you can make the case if it is wildly under game specs or some 'frankenputer...doesn't really apply to a 1yr old Alienware, now does it?

There are tiny, unheard of design shops from places like Hungary and Turkey who somehow manage to produce games that run just fine...yet after months post-launch Stardock can't? Please, it's hardly like there is even a single aspect of this game which should be pushing the capabilities of a good machine 10yrs ago.

As for "crying over it"...get a clue. I'm a customer, I'm unhappy with the product I paid for and I am expressing that unhappiness to the company after giving them plenty of chances to "make it right".

 

The thing you have to understand is that this a community forum. You are not just expressing your unhappyness to stardock you are doing so to everyone who reads and posts here. While all the points you raise about the game are valid, they are points that have been raised many times before in various threads in far a more constructive mannor. If you really want stardock to take notice of how unhappy you are then it is easy to message brad or kael privately here on the forums or there are often devs on in the in game chat. 

You talk about "Rabid Defenders" yet anyone can see that very few people here are denying the large flaws elemental has as a game currently. Your negativity isn't helping anybody and certainly isn't wanted in this forum.

It just seems like a case of carrots and sticks, and you are still waveing your stick around when the time for that past a while back.

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December 16, 2010 9:43:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

To be fair, Elemental has had many more problems then GalCiv2.  Some of this is due to Stardock being overambitious with trying to make a game engine from scratch.   I think in retrospect, this will be one of the things when Elemental is done Brad will self-criticize himself over as a business decision.

 

That said, vast improvements were made in 1.1.  The real problem for SD in 2011 with Elemental is going to be balancing the need for gameplay improvements, balance, and stability.

 

I'm not going to be satisfied with Elemental until I feel the game is clearly more fun then Twilight was.  That's the standard I'm holding Stardock to on this.  While I don't have stability problems (yet), others seem to- but gameplay (Twilight needed some improvements there, but was overall very good), and AI are sore sports for me right now (Stardock's main selling point to me is good gameplay with an AI that can handle it provided you don't exploit).


And yes, I am very difficult to please, I'll admit it.   You can make a great game, and it may not be good enough for me.   

 

One thing I am seeing from the changes so far, is really making me excited for GalCiv 3, I can see some ideas from Elemental really shoring up the rough spots in GalCiv 2 (though I think when Brad was designing Elemental- he was thinking too much GalCiv in some areas, some thiings felt cut and pasted from there, and some of that is still in 1.1)

 

 

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December 16, 2010 9:53:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,
Okay, so I kept my mouth shut and waited for the great 1.1 patch; finally get it and less than 1 hour into my first game it CTDs.

I now really feel like the money I spent on this game was a complete waste and I will not be buying another Stardock product unless it has been out a year and half a dozen of my friends swear to how good it is.

I could have dealt with a much more modest revamp game play and balance-wise if it was *stable*! To have strung people along this long and put out something still this crash happy is just unbelievable.

So you got ONE stinkin crash big farking deal. Everybody gets a crash once in awhile from many things other than a game. Now if you load it 100 times and it crashes 100 times then you have a beef but until that happens you are just a whiney troll.

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December 16, 2010 9:56:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@ebelser: First of all most are not 'rabid' defenders. Its about fairness and reality.
Your 'tone' is exactly what I referred to in my previous post. Using words like 'rabid', 'battered gamers syndrome'.

Can you come up with examples of why "every PC is different" defense doesn't cut it? I think its even more true nowadays then is was when we're still on our XT's. Now we have dozens of different hardware brands and hardware component types to mix and match. So howcome doesn't it fly anymore, you think?

Then you generalise by saying Stardock hasn't produced a game that runs fine despite small companies from Hungary and Turkey can do this aparently. The only title that suffers made by Stardock is Elemental and this has been acknowledged already by the devs and the players on many accounts. No need to generalise and besides, what's your point by refering to those small developers from Hungary and Turkey anyway?
There's also a lot of crap games coming from there, Germany, Russia, the US, you name it.

If you think v1.1 is THE only chance they had to make it right in case of Elemental, then you had your hopes up too high. SD has been nothing but transparant in what v1.1 would be and would not be. If you bothered to follow the beta builds that would been clear even more.

It's ok to express your dissapointment, but keep it real. Hence my point about 'we're past that'. YES we all know Elemental is not there yet, YES they are working on it, YES they have apologised, YES the magic system is not final yet... What more do you want?

It's awfully easy to just yell without any backing up...

Keep behaving like a child who just got his lollipop taken from him doesn't help things.
Look forward. Move on. Help the game if you like it. If not, then quit, sell it, whatever. There have been enough promises and offers from SD (heck you even get expansions free!) so that your "I am a dissapointed customer" arguement doesn't hold anymore.
If you can't see we are still very much in the fixing phase, eventhough v1.1 was out the door, you have only yourself to blame for not keeping tabs on the development.

And this has got nothing to do with being 'rabid defenders', fanboism or whatever other fancy name there is. It's just being realistic, seeing the facts for what they are and have a good spirit to try and help getting a game where it needs to be, instead of just screaming and yelling.

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December 16, 2010 10:35:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ok, I think bashing the OP here was kinda silly.  He wasn't overly aggressive, all he did was mention the issues he had and that he is very unhappy about it.  I am willing to wait for updates to fix things, but honestly, you guys shouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way.  Some people don't want to wait months for their investment in a game to pay off.  He is right that it is lame to wait months for a game to become stable only to still run into crashes.  It wasn't like he was ranting and raving.  Come on guys.

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December 16, 2010 11:00:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There are many aggressive comments in defense of the game.

It's a community site, sure. Bashing people who have a CTD is not a very positive community attitude either.

The 'the game is not broken it's your machine' and 'many other games are crap' and 'games can't run on all machines' arguments don't change the fact the game crashes. It doesn't change the fact that on the machines on which it crashes, many other games run fine. It is not a valid or useful argument. The useful argument is "send all data information to Stardock so they can fix it".

The OP says he would be ok with more modest play balance and more stability. This has been ignored by almost all posters in the thread, despite it being one third of the opening post.

Isn't that something constructive, though? Like telling the community some member(s) of this community want a stable game, and value this more than the tweaks and revamps?

Now I'm ready to bear with a few CTD if the game is fun, and I think a major revamp was needed to get into fun territory, although it's mostly an AI issue to me.

 

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December 16, 2010 11:00:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Fistalis,
Naw your rig must be the super bug killer 3000 from the future. Cause those of us with modern rigs still have crash issues.

As ironic as it sounds, there is some truth to what you say.  It has been my experience that systems with newer hardware are often more unstable than older boxes simply because the hardware in them is untested.  Older hardware has been put through its paces and usually has the most rock solid drivers with the best compatibility.  That's why you often see people with bleeding edge computers complaining about frequent crashes while those of us with Antique Roadshow specials generally enjoy a considerably more stable experience.

But, yeah, keep sending those crash logs in so Stardock can fix 'em.

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December 16, 2010 11:05:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You're right my "tone" is pretty negative...I tend to get that way when I waste money and yes, this is a public forum...hence why I'd rather complain here than in a PM to someone. Strangely, when I am really happy with a game I don't just PM the dev team...I tell my friends and others on forums like this; So why when I am unhappy with game would I not do the same?

Can you come up with examples of why "every PC is different" defense doesn't cut it? Amazingly, yes I can. There are pretty common standards out there for most things you know; strangely I buy a dozen or more PC games in any given year and while I won't say that none of them has ever trotted out this "every PC is different" excuse, I cannot remember the last time that someone tried it. This isn't some game with cutting edge graphics, amazing textures or even terribly complicated game play. Why does this have so many problems while games from far smaller and less well known companies have done much better? I think we all know why and Stardock has pretty much admitted it; they tried to re-invent the wheel and messed up the coding pretty badly.

Are they working to fix it and do they deserve some credit for that? Of course and even more for being honest about it, they are even trying to make it good. However that doesn't make me like the game more, or a whole lot happier about buying it.

As for my jibe about, "battered gamer syndrome", I stand by it. I think far too many consumers are willing to repeatedly give dev teams a pass for failures and gloss over the extent of problems.

 

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December 16, 2010 11:20:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ebelser,


Are they working to fix it and do they deserve some credit for that? Of course and even more for being honest about it, they are even trying to make it good. However that doesn't make me like the game more, or a whole lot happier about buying it.

 

 

And right you are, but aparently it comes down to the age-old glass is half full/half empty issue.
You're clearly missing my point (like some others in the last replies). And I am getting sick of your sarcastic 'tone', so there is no point in continueing this discussion.

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December 16, 2010 11:23:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think your over exaggerating, sorry. Have you tried playing the game a few more times to see if it will crash? I have played the game and hardly had any crashes. I did have one but it wasn't repeatable and I just loaded up my game and continued on for a while with no crash.

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December 16, 2010 11:26:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

One thing that I noticed when I upgraded to 1.1 ( and I have been playing with the various 1.09x betas ), was that all of my stored Game,Audio and Graphic options had been reset.  My pre-existing races and sovereigns had been axed as well.  Because of low system specs, I had turned many graphical options down previously to prevent certain types of crashes.  Perhaps some of the people who had more stability in the various betas are now seeing problems because of a settings change that is now causing a hardware conflict.  Just a thought.

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December 16, 2010 11:32:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 Stardock's Beta and QA process is broken, they never gave the final version of 1.1 to the beta testers, the last version before release was 1.09w which was out for testing less than 24 hrs. Instead they made changes to 1.09w and then just released it as 1.1. This is the same thing they did before the games initial release back in August. Beta testers never saw or tested it before release.

They never posted a Beta testers guide, telling testers what/what not to do, (patch or reinstall new version, use/don't use saved games, custom maps, previous created units, mods, etc, etc.) for each beta release. They would rather tell us blah, blah, blah on how hard they are working, just work smarter Stardock.

 

Setup a really QA and Beta process with a private forum for those who really want to test, along with published testing guidelines, have a dedicated QA manager to respond to all bugs & crash reports and most of all give time for testing vs. just putting out a new version every day.

 

 

 

 

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December 16, 2010 11:44:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Nothing really matters until 1.2, or maybe even later than that. If it takes me less than 15mins to run into the first very apparent bug (my unit gets covered in a fog of war for no reason) which constantly repeats itself, it's clear that the game isn't complete yet.

Since I pre-ordered the game, I don't feel like I have any point of complaining, at all. It really doesn't make a hint of a difference to me whether the version number is 0.9 or 1.1. If the game was not released and pushed back to february, how would it affect my life. It wouldn't. I'll just wait until Stardock gets it right, and I have all the faith that they will, eventually.

Those who bought the game at retail, I feel have legitimate cause of being slightly annoyed. But they can get their money back I think if they complain. And if they keep the game they get the expansion for free. So it's not that bad for them either. They probably would've bought the game anyway if it was released a year from now. And anyone who preordered should just stay quiet if you ask me. They have absolutely nothing to be upset about.

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December 16, 2010 11:47:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Now that is a fair complaint.  There was no good reason why the time difference between the last beta and release was under 18 hours.  If anything, 1.1 should have been today.   This is something I do feel Stardock is wrong on- though I suspect other factors may be involved (Christmas, the fact the team was in crunch mode, which Brad doesn't like to see because it does burn people out)

 

That said, I think Stardock's beta process is fine- public betas are the best way to find errors, but a dedicated group in addition may be advisable also.  I know SD has done this in the past on specific issues.

 

Part of the reason the community here is rather defensive- is a combination of the interaction Stardock does with developers, which causes a loyal fanbase, plus the hostility towards SD from some quarters.  SD does have its fanboys- I'm one of them myself.

 

Again, SD does deserve some heavy criticism for how Elemental has been handled, but the response from Brad has been the best SD could muster, and their track record, to me, indicates that massive improvement in the game is likely- which is one reason why I give them the fanboy benefit of the doubt, one I would not give to many other companies.

 

 

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December 16, 2010 11:57:31 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Best Reponses or not,

the game is still unplayable

sorry

That's a waste of money

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December 16, 2010 12:05:37 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pad152,
 Stardock's Beta and QA process is broken, they never gave the final version of 1.1 to the beta testers, the last version before release was 1.09w which was out for testing less than 24 hrs. Instead they made changes to 1.09w and then just released it as 1.1. This is the same thing they did before the games initial release back in August. Beta testers never saw or tested it before release.

Thank you!!  I was starting to think nobody else got this.

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