It's nice to see Pirates being held accountable.

By on November 5, 2010 8:52:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

ZehDon

Join Date 04/2009
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Jammie Thomas-Rasset, a single mother of four, was found liable by a jury on Wednesday of copyright infringement for using KaZaA peer-to-peer file-sharing network to download the songs over the internet.

She was ordered to pay $US62,500 ($A62,303.74) for each of the 24 songs, a total of $US1.5 million ($A1.5 million) dollars.


Oh, shit, did I say being held accountable?  I mean having their lives ruined.  Haha, my bad.

$US62,500.00 per song.  I doubt the bands that recorded those 24 tracks made that much money off of their songs, excluding Concert ticket sales, of course.  I'm all for paying people for their hard work, however I'm also for letting the punishment fit the crime.  Placing someone under so much debt that they'll never outlive it doesn't seem like a fitting punishment to me.

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November 8, 2010 1:24:28 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Go back to the old days and send 'em to Australia.

+1

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November 8, 2010 2:08:08 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting k10w3,

That's all well and good, IF there were such a thing as omniscience, so that absolute guilt could be determined.  There isn't.  As a matter of fact:

"The most far-reaching study of the death penalty in the United States has found that two out of three sentences were overturned on appeal, mostly because of serious errors by incompetent defense lawyers or overzealous police officers and prosecutors who withheld evidence."  http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/061200death-penalty.html

Now I'm off to watch Dexter.

 

Plus there is the fact that the death penalty, itself, has never been an affective deterrent either.

 

Dexter, ha.

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November 8, 2010 2:09:41 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Philly0381,
I hear you and understand what you are saying k10w3 but I don't think that the story in the OP is a case of someone wrongly accused.  Now, some may feel unjustly accused.

 

Not wrongly accuse, but wrongly punished........

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November 8, 2010 2:13:25 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I can not think of any penalty for committing a crime that has been proven as an effective deterrent, even public flogging didn't work.  The only thing that the penalty for committing a crime does is give some level of satisfaction or closure to the victim or injured party.

By effective deterrent I'm talking about convincing the person who committed the crime to not do it again or stopping someone else from committing the same crime.

EDIT:  I need to correct this, the death penality does take care of one person repeating the crime.

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November 8, 2010 5:50:03 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Death penalty isn't about being a deterrent....fuckwits will always be fuckwits.

What it absolutely GUARANTEES however is exactly ZERO chance of repeat offenders.

 

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November 8, 2010 6:04:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting RickJP,

Solution....?
Go back to the old days and send 'em to Australia.

The good old days, when you could get locked up for 6 years and sent to OZ for stealing a loaf of bread. Now, if we can get that Mars colony going ....

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November 8, 2010 6:10:47 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Death penalty isn't about being a deterrent....fuckwits will always be fuckwits.

What it absolutely GUARANTEES however is exactly ZERO chance of repeat offenders.

 

 

Punishment is meant to STOP people from committing crime. Death is not a punishment. Capital Punishment in many cases seems to be more of an incentive than anything else (If you have nothing to lose). A long prison sentence has always been more of a real punishment and a deterrent as well, i.e. Canada, but you're not really interested in justice are you. Its a good thing the West is more civilized now despite some.

 

I remember reading a short story once where they executed criminals for being too stupid to live. All it did in the end was make better and smarter criminals. Take the hint.

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November 8, 2010 6:12:54 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting tazgecko,

Quoting RickJP, reply 74
Solution....?
Go back to the old days and send 'em to Australia.
The good old days, when you could get locked up for 6 years and sent to OZ for stealing a loaf of bread. Now, if we can get that Mars colony going ....

 

Well, they use to hang people instead for stealing bread...... (Maybe they stopped that a little too soon in certain cases.   )

 

For justice to be right not only does it need mercy, but morality as well otherwise one is no different than the criminal. To punish an immoral act with an immoral act is just as criminal. Or do you want to live under a system like Sharia Law where you can have your hand cut off for stealing food, or be executed for getting pregnant from being raped? Primitive.

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November 8, 2010 6:13:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Now if ONLY Law reform actually kept up with this situation.... where 'correct' penalty is applied to IP theft [piracy]....all that is needed is that every OTHER criminal act is met with scaled and appropriate penalty.

No, don't get all weak-kneed and want IP theft penalty LESSENED....call for the 'bigger stuff' to attract BIGGER penalty.

Eye for an eye.

Literally.

Murder?

Death.

Rape?

Buggerized and death.

Arson?

Burn.

Remember...the only 'negative' is the increased burden on the Penal system.

Solution....?

Death penalty return....heck....let's make 3-time losers REALLY 'lose'....

That'll work....

 

Got a new logo for your Community Wall....  Jafo_BHL  

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November 8, 2010 7:37:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yea Jafo, I like that concept We just send our so called "pirates" to your country and you can deal with them thanks for being the back side of the Empire!

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November 8, 2010 8:31:03 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Philly0381,
EDIT:  I need to correct this, the death penality does take care of one person repeating the crime.

 

Irrelevant since most murders are crimes of passion and not really planned, plus those convicted usually later turn out to be innocent as well. In some places all it takes to get the death penalty is to have the wrong skin color. You have to have to judgment of a god to set the death penalty.

 

The last person executed in Canada was later found to be innocent. That is why we had a referendum and voted on it as one people. We choose no more.

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November 8, 2010 8:57:17 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Why can't rational people not have the 'judgement of a god' to set a death penalty when idiots with the judgement of an antisocial shit can use theirs to kill innocent victims in the first place?

Put politely...fuck them.

They kill....they die.

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November 8, 2010 9:37:12 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

They kill....they die.

I honestly don't have a problem with that fundamentally.

I do have a problem with trusting 12 carefully selected morons (or even some judge for that matter) to come to an accurate, let alone reasonable, conclusion.  Particularly after being led around the ring a few times by lawyer-babble.  As demonstrated (at least in my mind) by the OP.

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November 8, 2010 10:07:04 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

"Single mother of four" was already rorting the system....likely breeding for welfare.

Who gives a toss what happens to her?

I don't.

This attitude is completely inhumane.  Condemn/deprive the mother and you condemn/deprive the children... who are INNOCENT.

I thought this kind of attitude died with Hitler and Stalin... obviously not.

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November 8, 2010 10:28:42 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

A nation in decline, no?

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November 8, 2010 10:35:43 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Death penalty isn't about being a deterrent....fuckwits will always be fuckwits.

What it absolutely GUARANTEES however is exactly ZERO chance of repeat offenders.

It also guarantees that a person who is later found to be innocent cannot be reprieved and live out the rest of their life.

And don't give me that crap about a few sacrifices to ensure a safer/better society.

If someone broke into your home and murdered your wife while you both slept, and the courts found you guilty, you'd be thanking your lucky stars Oz abolished the death penalty more than half a century ago....

I mean, you wouldn't want to be the innocent sacrifice that makes Oz a better place.... would you!

Seems to me, the more civilised we become, the less civilised some of us get.

As for this woman, she is NOT the pirate.  The person who ripped and uploaded the music is the pirate.

Furthermore, the penalty imposed is absurd and completely disproportionate to the crime for which she was convicted.... but that has always been the way since the greed of the powerful and wealthy was allowed to influence lawmakers and judges.

Sadly, the real creative geniuses behind the pirated music wouldn't see a cent, even if this woman could pay the court appointed figure.  It may be a win for the RIAA and the music moguls, but the artists win nothing because the recording industry will continue to screw them.

If anybody is interested in what musicians think of all this (pirating), seek out the thoughts of Mick Jagger, David Bowie and other prominent artists who condemn the greed of all the major record labels.

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November 8, 2010 10:36:58 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

The only problem I have with this whole thing is the punishment doesn't even come close to fitting the crime. This is greed at it's ultimate finest. I'm convinced that any sense of fair play has long gone from people. And I'm curious about how much of this money will actually go to the band that suffered this great loss. Songs go for what....$.99 each on the internet...and she downloaded what...24 songs times .99 for a grand total of $23.76...but she is ordered to pay $1.5 million...oh yeah...that's a real fair amount of punishment. Even at 5 times the amount it only comes to $570.24. How the hell can anyone justify $1.5 million as a fair punishment?

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November 8, 2010 10:48:42 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

In my opinion there is no justifying it! All they did was get themselves a (scape) goat to 'skin'. That's what they want, somebody to take the fall. They won't get the money but they'll get something else instead. What can be a better way to stir controversy then at a time when a certain political party is fighting for its life on the hill. Election time is not that far away. Two years. The Democrats already lost their majority and now the left hand is in charge ... again. Better not be like Georgre Jr  If it is, there will be some kinda hell to pay. What party will take  the fall if the court decision is upheld? Not the Republican party. They'll come out as against it and then use that as a club to beat over the heads of Democrats. Guess who gets to pay the bills afterwards? Every Joe or Jane shmoe in the country!The USA, not elsewhere. Elsewhere has got their own problems.

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November 8, 2010 11:35:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

EDIT: Quotes are being silly.

"The Recording Industry Association of America has said it found Thomas-Rasset shared more than 1,700 songs on the file-sharing site Kazaa, but it sued over 24 of them. RIAA spokeswoman Cara Duckworth said the association made several attempts to settle with Thomas-Rasset, at first for $5,000, but Thomas-Rasset refused."[/quote]

Assuming the article DrJBHL found is accurate, it sounds like it's her fault for the huge fine. There's no way she could've not known what she was doing was illegal. She was just being stupid when she tried to fight it; no other way to put it.

[quote who="scharchuk" reply="82" id="2819662"]


Quoting Jafo,
reply 80

Death penalty isn't about being a deterrent....fuckwits will always be fuckwits.

What it absolutely GUARANTEES however is exactly ZERO chance of repeat offenders.

 


 

Punishment is meant to STOP people from committing crime. Death is not a punishment. Capital Punishment in many cases seems to be more of an incentive than anything else (If you have nothing to lose). A long prison sentence has always been more of a real punishment and a deterrent as well, i.e. Canada, but you're not really interested in justice are you. Its a good thing the West is more civilized now despite some.

In principle I'd agree with you, but given the state of our (the US) prisons, I don't think it's much of a deterrent. For many of the poorer criminals, they actually get a better quality of living than they had before. Except in the really bad cases, they're garanteed three meals a day, some sort of entertainment (books, TV, sports, etc), exercise, a bed, etc. Some prisons are obviously worse than others, but for many inmates it's still better than their previous life.

Now if prisons were more like dungeons I would agree with you that they would be a real punishment and/or deterrent. Sleep on the floor, no bed, no blankets, shitty food, *maybe* two meals a day if you're lucky, no books or TV, and no exercise time (if you want exercise, do pushups in your cell).

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November 9, 2010 12:26:04 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Starkers...

I STILL don't care what happens to her.

I do care about her kids...she obviously did not as she jeopardized their security/existence by engaging in unlawful acts.

Top marks tho for equating me with Hitler and/or Stalin....  I haven't been accused of such in....oh.....hours.

 

Capital Punishment can be idiot-proof.

Although EVERY inmate will claim innocence the reality is MOST are totally legless when it comes to supporting that claim.

TOO MANY people are imprisoned who are way beyond 'reasonable doubt'...in fact they are absolute certainties.  Shooting them is economically sensible.

Why should the absolute scum of the earth be cared-for and supported by their victims?

Bugger that.

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November 9, 2010 12:34:42 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Now let's just get back 'on topic'....

That idiot from Deviantart.com ...the one who has been 'ripping' and selling vStyler's Windowblinds skins had the temerity to turn up here....oh-so smug that he could not be banned/ignored by his detractors here.....

I responded "Wanna bet?"

...and Banned his butt.

THAT's my sense of Justice..... where I make a difference in this God-forsaken world.

 

So....he's a 'pirate'.... a thief.... someone financially affecting one of our members.

Nothing to do with 'The Man'....nothing to do with antiquated Recording Industry methodologies in the face of consumer back-lash.... nothing to do with file sharing, even,.... but just another arse that needed a kick.

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November 9, 2010 1:45:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

Jammie Thomas-Rasset, a single mother of four, was found liable by a jury on Wednesday of copyright infringement for using KaZaA peer-to-peer file-sharing network to download the songs over the internet.


She was ordered to pay $US62,500 ($A62,303.74) for each of the 24 songs, a total of $US1.5 million ($A1.5 million) dollars.

Oh, shit, did I say being held accountable?  I mean having their lives ruined.  Haha, my bad.

$US62,500.00 per song.  I doubt the bands that recorded those 24 tracks made that much money off of their songs, excluding Concert ticket sales, of course.  I'm all for paying people for their hard work, however I'm also for letting the punishment fit the crime.  Placing someone under so much debt that they'll never outlive it doesn't seem like a fitting punishment to me.

Wow....just wow. That shit makes me even sicker than normal. The unabashed greed of the system here is just too overwhelming. I understand they're trying to set an example, just like Metallica did to that little girl's parents they sued because she downloaded some MP3's a handful of years ago, but there should come a point when even ,make that Especially, a judge.....should say something like...

"Look, she broke the law, she should be punished and made to pay, but let's actually fine her something she'll be able to afford to pay off some time this CENTURY!"

....but of course no, no judge would say that in a court of "law", that might make them look almost human instead of being the corporate ass-hat douchebag lackeys that they really are. Judges and Lawyers all make way more money than they really deserve for what they do, and of course lawyers can be bought by corporations, and if you think a judge can't be "bought" or "swayed" to set a precedent so he can look "tough on crime" then you're more naive than I thought (not you Don, I mean "people" in general). Cases like this one should scream to the public that our so called "legal" system is nothing more than a puppet machine made to make the rich even richer while the common person is labeled as a criminal and slapped with outrageous fines and punishments that don't come anywhere near actually being a fit punishment for the crime that was committed.

Justice, in this country as it is in so many others, can be bought and paid for and is generally only any good for you if you already have loads of money to afford a lawyer. Poor people get shafted by laws they don't fully understand, they can't afford proper defense, they're lives are ruined, and for what?!?! Justice??? HA!!!

People's lives are being ruined for Money, not Justice. Real Justice went out of style when the townsfolk were told they couldn't wear they're six shooters in town anymore.

How anyone could think this is right or not be appalled by this is beyond me.

 

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November 9, 2010 1:54:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jafo,
Now let's just get back 'on topic'....

That idiot from Deviantart.com ...the one who has been 'ripping' and selling vStyler's Windowblinds skins had the temerity to turn up here....oh-so smug that he could not be banned/ignored by his detractors here.....

I responded "Wanna bet?"

...and Banned his butt.

THAT's my sense of Justice..... where I make a difference in this God-forsaken world.
 


So....he's a 'pirate'.... a thief.... someone financially affecting one of our members.

Nothing to do with 'The Man'....nothing to do with antiquated Recording Industry methodologies in the face of consumer back-lash.... nothing to do with file sharing, even,.... but just another arse that needed a kick.

Good show old bean, good show

Though Jafo, we all know your Real sense of Justice would have been to break his knee caps with a baseball bat...lol. You ain't fooling no one man J/K

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November 9, 2010 2:32:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Death penalty isn't about being a deterrent....fuckwits will always be fuckwits.

What it absolutely GUARANTEES however is exactly ZERO chance of repeat offenders.

 

 

When you got nothing to lose, you got nothing to lose from doing it again.

 

Also she can just declare bankruptcy I believe and the fine goes away- though she loses most of her posessions.  If she doesn't have anything she doesn't have much to lose.

 

We are really heading towards a 2nd Gilded Age in this country.

 

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November 9, 2010 3:16:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Starkers...
I STILL don't care what happens to her.
I do care about her kids...she obviously did not as she jeopardized their security/existence by engaging in unlawful acts...

What you've basically done here is state that the rights of Copyright holders exceed the basic human right at a decent life.  The impact of the mother having to pay that fine will filter down to her children most definately.  With their mother's wages being garnished from now until her death, the children will suffer regardless of how hard the mother works.  Literally, no matter what, those children will be living marginally above the poverty line until they leave the care of their mother.  During that time, they will witness first hand the effects of a lop-sided legal system, and will be logically more likely to "stick it to the man" with piracy, or heaven-forbid greater crimes.  Congratulations.
Side note:  the people who recorded those songs will see none of the money she pays.  None.  As a copyright holder yourself, or at the very least an intellectual property right holder, do you think that's honestly fair?

Quoting Jafo,

Although EVERY inmate will claim innocence the reality is MOST are totally legless when it comes to supporting that claim.
TOO MANY people are imprisoned who are way beyond 'reasonable doubt'...in fact they are absolute certainties.  Shooting them is economically sensible.
Why should the absolute scum of the earth be cared-for and supported by their victims?
Bugger that.

Not familiar with the Innocent Project, are you?  Thousands - literally, thousands - of inmates have been freed from their "rock solid" convictions thanks to the use of DNA evidence.  In this situation, DNA can't free them; Copyright Holders have hundreds of millions of dollars to beat back any defence they can muster, not to mention any and all appeals, and it's literally a case of "if the shoe fits".
I'd want a fair Legal System where downloading music is as punishable as stealing that music from a store.  I'd want a system that doesn't breed poverty while filling already filled coffers with more money.

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