Tertullian

Join Date 12/2004

Children & Aging

Ok, this issue with the aging of children faster than adults is bothersome even though it doesn't really affect gameplay. But it is a distraction. Here's my idea:

Age the adults at the same rate as the children. As a powerful channeler, I ought to have longevity. And there's no reason why this world must conform to our (earthly) standards of old age. Let everyone's normal lifespan be a couple of hundred years.

And, add some spells of longevity. Let my channeler's normal lifespan be 200 years. But let me get an n^th level spell that tacks on, oh say, 1000 years to my lifetime (and that of my loving/nagging spouse). Or perhaps a succession of spells, each of which tacks on, say 200 years to our mortal life.

With this, now the everyone ages at the same rate and we don't see children/grandchildren age at superhuman rates simply to grow up and become a viable part of the game.

What say ye?

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my idea of using age classes, and not an actual age number of years

https://forums.elementalgame.com/396690

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I think of it as a physical age, not an actual age. Meaning that My Sov might physically still only be 30 when his kid is physically 20. Their actual age might be greater, but this is how I work it out in my mind.

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I don't see how this can be solved if the goal is to age at the same rate.

If the rate will be as slow as the grownups, you will probably end the game many times before ever using your first child in combat.

If the rate will be as fast as the children, and you will want a realistic impact of age on the characters, it will only add weaknesses to heroes (who aren't that good now anyway). And it's not just the sovereign that has an age, it is also each and every hero.

What will happen to our motivation to raise champion's levels if we will know that when we finally raise him to a decent level he will die of natural age? Will we really want essence upkeep for each champion just to keep them alive, when all other ageless regular units keep gathering XP the usual way?

Best solution I can think of: remove the age entirely.

If it isn't realistic anyway, why bother with an inconsistent statistic that doesn't impact the game rules?

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Or keep it as is, its fine.

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That will also work.

It was funny at first to watch my 25 year old sovereign with his 20 year old child (ewwww), but it is easily ignored for game play reasons.

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Yea, sometimes you have to just ignore little things that dont make sense simply for fun factor. You could make a more realistic aging system. But who really wants a realisitc system? I want my kids fairly quick and not only that, I want generation after generation. I can get Great-Great grandkids. Thats fucking awesome, and who cares if I'm only 40:)

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Just make everyone age at the same rate, then ignore age-related effects completely and allow heroes to reach ages potentially hundreds of years old. Hand-wave it that in the world of Elemental, there is no such thing as growing old.

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Quoting Darvin3,

reply 7

That's not a minor handwave, though. That's a signifiant setting change, and I don't support doing it for something this silly.

Now, what could be done would be to say that channelers passively prevent their champions from aging somehow.

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I agree with Crux. It has now been seconded, I say we pass the motion on aging, and move on to things that annoying me, like the armor and clothes problems with the big fallen races.

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That's not a minor handwave, though.

The current hand-wave of differing "aging" rates is a much bigger handwave currently, so I don't see the argument. My suggestion is to change a big senseless handwave into a small reasonable handwave.

That's a signifiant setting change, and I don't support doing it for something this silly.

How is it significant? How is it silly? This is a fantasy world, with magic and dragons and demons and all kinds of other things. How is "people don't grow old in this world" at all out of place? Secondly, this doesn't actually change the game at all, this just changes the way it tracks age (which is really just flavour-text anyways since the game has no age-related effects at all).

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Because right now it can be hand-waved as a minor bug.

Make it a fix, and you'll be forced to explain why you did it that way and what did it actually improve.

A world that people don't age is not bad for a fantasy world, but as a concept, changing the world setting to fix a bug is not a good idea.

World setting should be the guideline for the rules, not the other way around.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

I posted about this back in early August, and I'm pretty sure I saw it somewhere on a dev list of things to tweak after the dust settles on the big changes underway. Hopefully, they'll settle on shifting to fuzzy words instead of specific numbers. There's no real calendar in the game, so it just doesn't make sense to give unit ages in calendar terms.

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but as a concept, changing the world setting to fix a bug is not a good idea.

But in the current world setting people don't age. Your children reach adulthood and your sovereign isn't even middle-aged.

There's no real calendar in the game, so it just doesn't make sense to give unit ages in calendar terms.

This is probably the best solution. Just remove all references to the actual passing of time and leave it open to interpretation. Though you'd still run into problems as multiple generations pass.

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ElanaAhova

Join Date 09/2008

+105

My two cents; the age of kin is (currently) a non-game function. Age has no bearing (at this time) on anything, except being old enough for an arranged dynastic marriage. What if things were modified to cause aging. Then consider what effects should aging have? Do older kin start having decreased physical attributes? How does it affect IQ/wis/manna? Combat speed? Do female kin stop having babies at menopause age? Does age eventually lead to senility?

This, I suppose, is a long way of saying, how much time do you really want the SD team to devote to this area of EWoM?

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Quoting Darvin3,

reply 13

but as a concept, changing the world setting to fix a bug is not a good idea.
But in the current world setting people don't age. Your children reach adulthood and your sovereign isn't even middle-aged.

There's no real calendar in the game, so it just doesn't make sense to give unit ages in calendar terms.
This is probably the best solution. Just remove all references to the actual passing of time and leave it open to interpretation. Though you'd still run into problems as multiple generations pass.

The point is that no one is currently saying "in the world of elemental children age faster and then stop aging". It is a known bug, not a feature.

If it is adapted as a feature, it will change the world and the stories attached to it. It's not necessarily bad, but it should be because this is what they planned and not because a minor bug forced the story on them.

If I remember correctly, the second or third part of the planned campaign is about the son of the ruler from the previous chapter, after the former king is getting old.

Do we really want them to force a story change just for this?

I think it's like saying Civ games are a fantasy game, just because the ruler is hundreds of years old.

In the words of MST3K:

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes,

And other science facts,

Repeat to yourself "It's just a show,

I should really just relax."

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Quoting genchaos33,

reply 1

my idea of using age classes, and not an actual age number of years

https://forums.elementalgame.com/396690

i like the idea

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^^ Me too, just use child, adult, and maybe old fart. Who cares if the kid is 20 or 50? He's an adult. But, while the sov & kin do age, champions don't. That's weird. At least, I don't remember them aging since the last time I played, which was about 2 builds ago.

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