A Official "Epic Request" to Stardock from the Player Community

If you want Epicness...please Say So Here!!!

By on September 14, 2010 8:01:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

RavenX

Join Date 10/2008
+194

I've kept a close eye on this thread here: Epic Battles and it's become Very Obvious that a whole lot of people were expecting to be able to have the types of large Grand Scale battles that are in the picture on the side of the box. The picture many of us drooled over when we first saw it. The same picture that was my desktop picture for 6 months. This picture (which I'm pretty sure Stardock is sick of seeing by now lol).

 

I would like to put forth a Official Request from the Player Base of Elemental to Make The Game Look Like This, with these kinds of Epic Numbers. It doesn't have to be in Real Time. It doesn't have to be in We-Go. What it does have to do is have Epic Numbers...Without Us Modding Them In.

You've got the tools and talent to make this happen. Us modders can't do it easily because it causes issues with units appearing in groups, but you guys at Stardock have the animation tools to fix that.

When people see Elemental in the store and pick it up and think about buying it, they no doubt took notice of this picture. In fact I'm Sure there are some people out there who had no clue what Elemental was until they saw it in the store and saw this picture and decided to buy it. After getting it home and playing it and realizing these numbers couldn't easily happen, more then a few people were let down. This post is to represent All those people and all of us who have been here from the start two years ago who wanted and expected a game of Epic Scale and Proportions.

I figure if enough people all get together and request/demand that Stardock live up to this picture then maybe they'll re-balance the numbers to make this possible. Food, Gildar, Housing, and a few other resources will need to be adjusted. The animations will need to be adjusted. But with a whole team of super smart programmers and animators it really shouldn't be a big deal to get done especially since these kinds of numbers were possible at least at one point with an internal build of the game.

If you bought Elemental and you'd like to see these kinds of numbers in battle. Please sign/reply to this thread and say so. If the community really wants this, which I'm sure most of them do, please say so now as now is the right time to do it while other mechanics get revamped. I'm sure all those people who bought Elemental based on this picture would greatly support this change, as would I.

Thank You and thank Stardock for making such an awesome and epic game that we can all enjoy for many years to come.


To those who weren't here through-out the beta process, there was a time when things were planned this way, which is where the above screen shot came from. This was from the continuous turn system that was set up but got cut. We don't NEED Continuous Turns to Achieve these kinds of Epic Numbers. It CAN be done within a Turn Based Environment with some creative animation techniques to make the units look like they're fighting between turns. I'd really, Really, like to see Stardock live up to this, and so I think those of us who want this should make this Official Request so that Stardock can truly see how many of us want this. The Beta Testers never even got to see this system in action. We were told it was changed from continuous turns to better fit the "feel" they wanted, but that doesn't explain why the unit counts had to be cut down so drastically. 12 guys in a unit does Not Feel Epic in my book.

If you Don't Want to sign the request, but would rather debate it, then please reply in the other thread going about Epic Battles here: Epic Battles

If you DO want to see them live up to these numbers. Please Say So here. No one will get mad at you for voicing your opinion or asking that they live up to this picture that so many people bought Elemental based on. Again, if you Don't want to see this, please keep your replies in the other thread. Thank you.

~ Raven X and the Elemental Community


This post is a reply from page 10, but I thought it should be added to the original, because here is the proof some people might want to see who weren't here for the whole beta process, who didn't hear the devs go on and on about the Inspiration for the Game. This is what was in the hearts and minds of All Of Us when we were all getting excited about Elemental:

Here is the proof, Frogboy had Total War and Lord of The Rings Epic Scale Battles IN MIND when dreaming up what Elemental would be:

Post By FROGBOY: Elemental: scale of power , http://forums.elementalgame.com/343449

Here's a Quote from Frogboy from that post:

"If you like the Total War series, you can imagine some of what we have in mind except here you can get that Lord of the Rings battle feeling where certain units just make mince meat out of whole squads of enemy units."

There are others back in old Dev Journals too. Now, NO ONE can deny that Frogboy had Total War Type, Epic Scaled Battles, IN MIND when PLANNING Elemental: War Of Magic. For all you new people who wanted to see quotes, there it is. I can dig up more old quotes too. So, if Frogboy is Now Saying that ONLY MoM was his inspiration, well, something is fishy in Denmark...

Here's another one where Frogboy Specifically says "huge army" and "vast armies" in the same paragraph!!!

Post By FROGBOY: Design elements of Elemental discussed , http://forums.elementalgame.com/329219

Here's a List of Quotes from Frogboy from that post, some of which are mechanics that either changed, or were simply left out completely from the game we have now, like where he talks about having Walls in cities be a Big Part of tactical battles:

Quote:

I understand if some stuff is being kept internal, but here are the things I'm wondering about:

1. Are there non-military victory conditions?

2. Does the game include a campaign? If so do you think the story of the campaign will attract gamers?

3. How are you addressing the steamroller issue of TBS games (ie: spending the first half of the game building a massive army and the last half rolling it over all opponents as a repeatable strategy to every game)?1. Yes. Most of the victory conditions are non-military. Some of the previews may cover this so I won't say anything until after the previews hit.

2. Yes. I think the story is compelling but I'm highly biased.

3. The mechanics in Elemental are a bit different than the typical 4X game because even in terms of warfare, there are very different paths. For instance, Player A may have a huge army ready to steamroll but Player B may have an incredibly powerful sovereign who can wipe out vast armies and Player C may have built up an incredible well of mana that can be used to decimate vast swaths of the world and all three of these things could come together at once based on which path players take and of course all 3 could lose to Player D who wins through the quest victory condition if they're not careful.

Quote:

Can we build walls? Us turtelers need to know.

Yes. One of the key game mechanics of Elemental is how cities are built. In Elemental, when a city grows, it gains a new tile which can be placed where the player wants it to go (as long as it's adjacent to an existing tile). So cities are a multi-tile affair in the game. Now, how you choose to build up your city heavily determines how defensible or productive, or rich it is. Cities are only conquered when the keep tile is taken which could be in the utter center of the city or could be at the end of a peninsula.

Quote:

What are the objectives for the creation part? how many aspects will be able to be manipulated? will it be part of the game or you have to work on that on a separated editor (one of the many things I loved from MoM was the ability to forge items that were mine, created by me as part of my campaign and war effort). There will be pre-made maps and randomly generated maps in which players can insert a large number of variables in deciding what kind of world they want.

Quote:

I guess it will have random maps, what is the target for sizes? From tiny to ridiculously large. We are also making a 64-bit native edition to support even larger worlds.

Quote:

What type of feedback are you looking for the beta process? Everything. The beta process starts about 9 months before release so that beta testers can seriously mold the game.

On a personal note, for me the beta process is the whole point of making the game as that's what helped get me into game development in the first place.

I was one of those Usenet guys on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic hanging out talking about games and picked up Teach yourself C in 21 days to start writing (this is obviously a long time ago now). So hanging out with other gamers to tweak and add to the game is the best part.

Quote:

Any extra payment for the MMO part? what is the general idea of this? No. It's not really an MMO part as much as Impulse hosting the game on the cloud to make it much easier for people to interact with their "world" with their friends.


Quote:

Brad - will there be any way to quick-resolve combat? Playing out tactical combat is fun when the sides are at all matched, but it's just a drag on my patience when you're going to steamroll the other side or whatever. And sometimes you just want to get combat over with because you're focusing on the bigger picture or a "technology win" or something.

Totally. There's instant-resolve (i.e. two armies meet, one dies), there's auto-resolve where the game zooms in and shows a tactical battle but it's all handled by the AI (ala GalCiv II fleet battles) and then there's full tactical battles where both sides play.

One thing I should mention about the tactical battles that isn't clear in the screenshots is that they're continuous turns. They're not like HOMM. The player tells where they want their units and uses the space bar to pause the action to give new directions. That way, we can get much more interesting battles.

Quote:

What's your combat system going to be built around? Master of Magic-style tactical combat, or Civilization-style randomized abstraction? Or will both be options?It's tactical but it can be made to play like Civ if you have instant-resolve enabled.

I will likely play with auto-resolve as I'm not a huge fan of playing out tactical battles but I enjoy seeing the carnage.

If anyone has ever seen Fellowship of the Ring where Sauron is whacking out tons of elves and men around, that's the look we're going for.

Though, in Elemental, the creatures are much more powerful than a lone Maiar up against a bunch of punks. Dragons in Elemental are incredibly powerful and each of the channelers are equivalent (by late game) to Valar. Enough Tolkien geedkom.

Quote:

The few available screenshots look great. Hopefully we'll get a look at the spells soon. The spells are going to be intentionally de-balancing in late game. I.e. by late game, you'll be able to do Populous level damage to the world. A lot of the reason we had to create a new engine was because we needed one where the world could be truly wrecked.

Quote:

By doing that, you can then open the way to have extremely large maps in which players are viable for a long period of time with different paths to victory.


If anyone wants to play catch-up and read the rest of the Dev Journals that talk about the inspiration behind the game, behind the Original Vision, you can find them here:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/forum/513/page/7

Notice how many times Frogboy uses LotR as a direct example of both scale and feeling for the envisioned world of Elemental. He uses it in reference to the Scale Of Battles. He uses it in reference to the Power of Sovereigns. He uses for a lot of things because it is what is commonly known to a lot of fantasy lovers.

That's the very last page in the Dev Journal History. Hopefully some of this information, quoted Straight From The Source, will clear things up for those who may be questioning what the original vision was and what the vision is now. How many things here simply aren't even a part of the game now? A lot that I can see, but, this thread isn't about any of those. This Thread is about the game living up to it's EPIC INTENTIONS. This is about Follow Through. This is about a Vast Part of the Elemental Community wanting the vision to be maintained and lived up to because we want Elemental to be Successful. We want Elemental to be the VERY BEST Fantasy Strategy War Game on the market and some of us will not rest until either that happens, or we're cold, dead, and buried.

In closing, here's a mock-up screen shot I did just now. This took about 5 minutes in PhotoshopCS4. Please don't get crazy over the details. This picture isn't meant to be super detailed, it's just meant to show how the game should feel. The feeling of truly epic armies clashing for control of a ruined world. I only did one army, not two, but I could do a mock-up of two massive armies fighting if I wanted to, but I think the point is served none the less. I didn't spend a lot of time cleaning it up or smoothing over where I patched in clear land that was covered by rocks or cactuses that I just copy and paster terrain over. It's just meant to show the feeling of what it would be like to command a Real Army that's the size of what a Powerful Sovereign of a mighty civilization truly deserves.

From now on I'll only be replying to civil posts in a civil manner. I'm not going to defend my wording of the post any longer as I've stated what I meant more than enough times. I'm sorry if anyone took offense to my wording, but if you're one of the people who did, then this thread wasn't for you anyway, as it was only meant to Count The Numbers of those of us who want the game to live up to it's original vision and potential as much as possible.

I urge those who still want to see this to Please Keep Posting and let your voices be heard. Keep the memory of what the game was supposed to be alive in your mind and hearts and keep the ideas alive in the minds and hearts of Frogboy and the Team who have poured their blood, sweat, and tears into this game right along side of us who have been here with them. We've all invested a lot of time and energy and expectations into this game, and this game is a work of art. Lets strive to make it live up to it's potential and keep your voices being heard. Thank you one and all.

 

 

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September 14, 2010 11:39:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting lord ebonstone,


(don't read if you hate negativity/venting)

So wait, they totally changed the combat system in the middle of "beta?"

People on these forums complain that we're paying to be beta testers.  The sentiment is genuine, but that's not entirely true.

Betas are supposed to be feature-complete versions that are tested for bugs and balance with maybe some final, release-ready resources (graphics/sound) missing.  You do the uprooting of entire systems in an alpha.  This really goes to show that what Stardock called "Beta" was actually an Alpha by software development standards.

The thing is, we're currently paying to be middle to late Alpha testers -- Stardock finally decided to listen to their fans after, you know, they were crucified by the press, and now entire systems are getting uprooted again.  The long and short:  we're not paying to be Beta testers, we're paying to be Alpha testers.

It's really quite shameful.  Brad admitting he's ashamed of the product is honest and all, but does nothing to help the situation.

I want Stardock to fix Elemental.  I hope they can fix Elemental.  They might be capable of fixing Elemental if they keep an open mind and treat what's out there now as an Alpha (without admitting it, of course... but that's OK).  

But do I have faith they will?  No.

Be pragmatic, not faithful.  The game will go nowhere if you don't.  Stardock might have egg on their face now, but it doesn't take long to wipe that off and go straight back into bad habits.

"In the middle" is kind of a misnomer. They had originally announced the game with the RTS style system. At some point internally they played it enough to decide it wasn't fun, and switched. We never saw that system, and it was changed fairly early in the beta process.

(Though you're right that stuff like beta 1 wasn't a "beta" in the way most development houses use the word. That said, beta 1 was meant to test some specific features and it did that well.)

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September 14, 2010 11:40:56 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Adam_H,



Quoting psychoravin,
reply 37
More unnecessary crap to bog down the game /unsigned. If you want Total War go play Total War this is Elemental:War of Magic not romper room kindergarden oooohh lookit the pretty pictures. Last thing I want is yet another kiddy clickfest rts game.


Good thing Raven X didn't suggest RTS gameplay, then.

I like how you didn't even bother to read what you're responding to. It's very classy.

I like how you didn't read who I was responding to...very trollish. Next time read the entire thread not just the OP's remarks MOE.

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September 14, 2010 11:42:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have not purchased the game, but as a potential buyer I can say the option for Epic Battles would put pressure on my decision.

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September 14, 2010 11:43:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting psychoravin,

Quoting Adam_H, reply 44


Quoting psychoravin,
reply 37
More unnecessary crap to bog down the game /unsigned. If you want Total War go play Total War this is Elemental:War of Magic not romper room kindergarden oooohh lookit the pretty pictures. Last thing I want is yet another kiddy clickfest rts game.


Good thing Raven X didn't suggest RTS gameplay, then.

I like how you didn't even bother to read what you're responding to. It's very classy.


I like how you didn't read who I was responding to...very trollish. Next time read the entire thread not just the OP's remarks MOE.

Uh, yeah, you were responding to me, and you DID NOT bother to read what I said.  I did not state I wanted a RTS.

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September 14, 2010 11:50:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Count me in as asking for this.

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September 14, 2010 11:59:39 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,



Quoting psychoravin,
reply 52

Quoting Adam_H, reply 44


Quoting psychoravin,
reply 37
More unnecessary crap to bog down the game /unsigned. If you want Total War go play Total War this is Elemental:War of Magic not romper room kindergarden oooohh lookit the pretty pictures. Last thing I want is yet another kiddy clickfest rts game.


Good thing Raven X didn't suggest RTS gameplay, then.

I like how you didn't even bother to read what you're responding to. It's very classy.


I like how you didn't read who I was responding to...very trollish. Next time read the entire thread not just the OP's remarks MOE.


Uh, yeah, you were responding to me, and you DID NOT bother to read what I said.  I did not state I wanted a RTS.

Wrong again MOE go read and comprehend but that is expected from trolls like you.

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September 14, 2010 12:04:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Count me in! I'm all for the tweaking of some numbers to make things more Epic. Maybe insert a "squad size" option, like in total war, to scale numbers for low end machines.

I think some of your detractors didn't bother to read your post or all the replies. Others wrote some very accurate posts about "why" they do not want what you propose and I can understand them!

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September 14, 2010 12:05:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I dont care about epic feel so you speak in your name only. Tactical combat is absolutly boring now, and it would be even worse with large numbers. To make tactical combat intresting Stardock has to make us THINK to win a battle. To make us think, play tacticly there are few things to be improved - spell are all the same, mana is extremly limited, heroes are useless and units do not have usefull unique atributes. If you enjoy moving 100000 units on you screen please use modes and arrange such a battles for yourself. I prefer small and medium tactical combats which demand some intelect.

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September 14, 2010 12:06:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This was the main reason i bought the game. It a shame developers make these false pics.

I sign this dude.

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September 14, 2010 12:14:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

A turn based game (We-Go system) can be epic :

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=60&Itemid=100

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September 14, 2010 12:16:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wow that picture...talk about false marketing.

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September 14, 2010 12:25:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Its called bait and switch. Classic.

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September 14, 2010 12:32:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Raven X,

Check out my revised reply I made to Tridus, my friend. This CAN be done. I've been playing games for 24 years (32 now, been playing since I was 8). I've SEEN Epic Battles done in turn based games plenty of times in the past (even on consoles like the Old School 8 bit Nintendo).

 

Wait, what?

What NES game had battles like the one on the picture you posted because I obviously missed those in the ignorance of my youth (we're the same age and I played the crap out of the NES too, but I clearly missed those games! )

 

In fact, the only "army battle" games I played where Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of the Three Kingdoms and while they had big numbers - there clearly where just that, a number on the screen, not gobs of troops like in the screen shot

 

Oh, and yeah, if this can be done in a TBS, the yes, I'd love to see it in Elemental. I think making the max stack size like...100 would help. Do like 10, 20, 50, 100 instead of 1, 4, 7, 9 (or whatever).

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September 14, 2010 12:40:34 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Dust-n-Bones,
I dont care about epic feel so you speak in your name only. Tactical combat is absolutly boring now, and it would be even worse with large numbers. To make tactical combat intresting Stardock has to make us THINK to win a battle. To make us think, play tacticly there are few things to be improved - spell are all the same, mana is extremly limited, heroes are useless and units do not have usefull unique atributes. If you enjoy moving 100000 units on you screen please use modes and arrange such a battles for yourself. I prefer small and medium tactical combats which demand some intelect.

How exactly does having larger army sizes with multiple unit types mean a less intellectually demanding battle? With larger, well designed maps and more varied armies the tactical options and requirements will increase, not decrease. There is more to keep track of and more decisions to make.

There are features that need to be added to really make it work, no one is suggesting you just increase the unit size on the current system and be done with it.

-Longer term movement planning in battles

-More varied tactical battle maps with choke points, high ground, rivers, things that can provide a real advantage when controlled and are something to be fought over.

-The entire stat system needs to be reworked and made more complex so there is a reason to have different unit types, special abilities need to be added to items to create even more diversity.

-The magic system needs to tie into this and have damage types so there is a reason to cast one spell over another. Secondary effects, more support based spells both offensive and defensive. Battlefield alteration is a must as well. This world was ripped apart by magic, on the strategic map the channelers can raise mountains, why cant they form protective land barriers during a battle?

-Tactical unit placement on the battlefield BEFORE the start of combat so you can set up proper formations and actually have true battle lines.

-Scaling map sizes based on the number of units involved, if it's 12 v 12, current map sizes are available. Larger maps occur at 20/40/60/80/100/etc. units on a side.

-Somebody mentioned being able to combine units into larger blocks on the map. Perhaps that's a place for champions to fit in as well. A commander can lead X soldiers together and now they move as one, perhaps with bonuses to defense and morale. A champion can also remain a viable combatant with an army size increase because squad sizes will remain the same. Thus the single unit balance will remain true and a champion can still be a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. At the same time it will allow you to have armies with a combined strength in the hundreds or low thousands eventually.

-Penalties on ranged weapons for range and obstruction

We don't want every battle to be like this, however we would like the game to continue scaling with the size of our empire. Especially once the 64 bit version is released and you can have incredibly large maps which leads to incredibly large empires as well.

 

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September 14, 2010 12:43:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,
I started the Epic Battles thread so I'm obviously all for this.  Signed. 

<snip>

But by the late game, we want to feel like our armies match the scale of our settlements.  If we can have several large cities with thousands of citizens, then it only makes sense that our armies would be comprised of hundreds of well-armed soldiers.

I don't care if we maintain the turn-based tactical battles.  I honestly believe this can work just fine with the system, as is.  I think the economy needs to be rebalanced to support large troop numbers, AI in tactical battles needs to be improved, tactical maps need to scale in size for the number of units, and combat animations need to be improved.  That is really all I think needs to be done to accomplish this.

 

I agree with this post entirely.  The failure of Epic in this game is a function of economics, unit costs and training times.  The combat engine itself doesn't seem to be the thing holding it back right now. 

I've played 500 turn slugfests with 25+ cities under my belt, and honestly I don't keep an army in most of them and my main units are composed of a few experienced, elite troops and a caster.  I'd love to be throwing huge numbers of troops around the board, but:

a) I don't need them,

mostly because the computer can't afford to put up similar numbers (unless you use the harder difficulties that disappointingly just cheat by giving the AI economy-wide bonuses).

And even if I could, I would hate the amount of micromanagement that would go into building and massing all those troops at all my different towns.  Ugh. Without teleport it would be a nightmare, and even with it, I hate it.  Ugh.

So signed, because I'd like to see this sort of escalation and I won't make it happen in my game now.

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September 14, 2010 12:46:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Check out my revised reply I made to Tridus, my friend. This CAN be done. I've been playing games for 24 years (32 now, been playing since I was 8). I've SEEN Epic Battles done in turn based games plenty of times in the past (even on consoles like the Old School 8 bit Nintendo).

And I call bogus BS as I've been playing longer than you since 1981 starting on a VIC 20 and there's never been any EPIC battles done in TURN BASED games. The biggest in the 80's would have been Kampfgruppe and Battlegroup and then Panzer Strike and Typhoon of Steel. Hardly anywhere close to epic in size. Closest and only one would have been Steel Panthers as you could have approx 100 units but hardly thousands. If you call 20 or so units EPIC then I have to laugh at you compared to the Total War series that I can put 25000 units on the screen in the origional MTW game. So, there were no EPIC turn based battles back then.

At any rate we don't need those kinds of battles in Elemental. Keep it simple stupid ala Master of Magic style and the outcome will be great. Make Heroes more useful and stable but not overpowered to the point they become the center of attention in a stack. Afterall Borimir died in Lord of the Rings and he was one of the heroes. Heroes shouldn't be gods.

 

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September 14, 2010 1:04:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting psychoravin,

Wrong again MOE go read and comprehend but that is expected from trolls like you.

No, you're the troll.  Tag, you're it!

 

Quoting Yellowstone_1872,

 I'd love to be throwing huge numbers of troops around the board, but:

a) I don't need them,

mostly because the computer can't afford to put up similar numbers (unless you use the harder difficulties that disappointingly just cheat by giving the AI economy-wide bonuses).

Agreed, this is the number one reason I think why we aren't having large-scale battles.  If the AI is only sending forces no larger than 10-15 units at a time, what's the point of creating an army any larger than that?

Has anyone played Star Wars: Rebellion?  When you play single-player in that game, your battles are fairly small - just a few frigates and couple star destroyers.  Now, play a multi-player game and the whole dynamic changes.  Me and my friend would amass fleets with literally hundreds of ships for several hours before duking it out in a massive, epic battle on some system.

My guess is that once the AI is improved and multi-player is implemented, we'll start to see battles that look much closer to the one in the picture - with hundreds of units per side.  So before we all come out and condemn Stardock for the lack of 100+ unit battles, I think the real solution here is to simply wait for the improved AI and multi-player first.

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September 14, 2010 1:30:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Another *signed!* for the OP. The current tactical battles are dreadfully boring and nothing like the promotional screenshots shown in the lead up to the release of this game. I remember seeing screens of what looked like hundreds of troops fighting monsters and what we got is so pitifully far from that.

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September 14, 2010 1:32:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

realistically we will never see tactical battles like that - no point in demanding

/thread

and before we can even begin to think about larger battles changes to core tactical gameplay and balance need to be addressed - then at that point numbers do not equal more fun

instead in wasting time demanding big battles how about we demand fun battles? whether big or small? how about strategic with choice?

this thread is a divergent - i blame the false hope, bait and switch, the false marketing...

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September 14, 2010 1:50:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Whenever I see that screenshot posted in a discussion thread, I imagine this is what's going through the minds over at Stardock.

 

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September 14, 2010 2:15:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1+ from me. I want this. I need this.

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September 14, 2010 3:08:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GaelicVigil,

Modding this into the game is not acceptable to me, this should be a core feature.

 

Would work for me.

Maybe it should be a core feature - but if a modder/mod team pulls it off, I'll play it just as happily.

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September 14, 2010 3:24:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums
Just wanted to say: I like this idea! It's just like divvu80 said, that it should be an option for people with higher end computers. That way, people with lower end computers can keep the current system and not bog down their systems. For people who can have hundreds/thousands? of units on screen, it would be awesome! Personally, I like hundreds, not thousands...but that's just me. Anyway, if it's mostly a cosmetic change, why not?
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September 14, 2010 3:26:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I support Raven X and his fight for epicness.

Quoting Tridus,
If the mechanics change such that a 1000 guy stack doesn't play the same way as a 12 guy stack, I'll be a lot more interested.
Of course!

And it doesn't have to be real-time or total-war-esque (I never played any TW). They could just adapt the battles Dominions-style but TBS.

With more and smaller tiles for the battlefield and the player giving his orders as in every turn-based combat, it seems easily doable, and it would have all the epicness we want. We don't need no stinkin' 3D figures to have a mighty battle: when I have only 50 plate-armored pikeneers, supported by priests casting banishment and some tens of crossbowmen, defending the gates of my castle against 1500 undead from Ermor and I don't know the outcome until the last second, THAT is epic!! Just like my own personal 300!

Now, as said Tridus, a formation of 80 soldiers doesn't behave like one of 4: there is limited space on every tile so big stacks take several tiles and only the soldiers directly facing the enemy are fighting, the others are either trying to flank or are queueing. And that would add much needed tactics into the tactical combat.

 

[negativity]But we have little chance to see something like that since SD seems to suffer from "not invented here" syndrome.[/negativity]

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September 14, 2010 3:41:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, I started this thread simply to prove a point, and I think that point has been proven pretty well. In the few hours I've been gone at the doctors I've gotten 4 points of Karma just from this post. I think that says something, don't you? Thanks for standing up everyone. I knew all it needed was a push in the right direction and for someone to just put it out there bluntly.

Hey Stardock, WE WANT EPICNESS PLEASE!!!!

I just got back from being poked and prodded at the doctors and I'm feeling like major sh!t right now, so I'll take the time out to reply to some others replies more in detail tonight after I wake up from a nap. Thanks again everyone. Keep on signing!!! And as always, Keep on rockin!!!

 

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