A Official "Epic Request" to Stardock from the Player Community

If you want Epicness...please Say So Here!!!

By on September 14, 2010 8:01:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

RavenX

Join Date 10/2008
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I've kept a close eye on this thread here: Epic Battles and it's become Very Obvious that a whole lot of people were expecting to be able to have the types of large Grand Scale battles that are in the picture on the side of the box. The picture many of us drooled over when we first saw it. The same picture that was my desktop picture for 6 months. This picture (which I'm pretty sure Stardock is sick of seeing by now lol).

 

I would like to put forth a Official Request from the Player Base of Elemental to Make The Game Look Like This, with these kinds of Epic Numbers. It doesn't have to be in Real Time. It doesn't have to be in We-Go. What it does have to do is have Epic Numbers...Without Us Modding Them In.

You've got the tools and talent to make this happen. Us modders can't do it easily because it causes issues with units appearing in groups, but you guys at Stardock have the animation tools to fix that.

When people see Elemental in the store and pick it up and think about buying it, they no doubt took notice of this picture. In fact I'm Sure there are some people out there who had no clue what Elemental was until they saw it in the store and saw this picture and decided to buy it. After getting it home and playing it and realizing these numbers couldn't easily happen, more then a few people were let down. This post is to represent All those people and all of us who have been here from the start two years ago who wanted and expected a game of Epic Scale and Proportions.

I figure if enough people all get together and request/demand that Stardock live up to this picture then maybe they'll re-balance the numbers to make this possible. Food, Gildar, Housing, and a few other resources will need to be adjusted. The animations will need to be adjusted. But with a whole team of super smart programmers and animators it really shouldn't be a big deal to get done especially since these kinds of numbers were possible at least at one point with an internal build of the game.

If you bought Elemental and you'd like to see these kinds of numbers in battle. Please sign/reply to this thread and say so. If the community really wants this, which I'm sure most of them do, please say so now as now is the right time to do it while other mechanics get revamped. I'm sure all those people who bought Elemental based on this picture would greatly support this change, as would I.

Thank You and thank Stardock for making such an awesome and epic game that we can all enjoy for many years to come.


To those who weren't here through-out the beta process, there was a time when things were planned this way, which is where the above screen shot came from. This was from the continuous turn system that was set up but got cut. We don't NEED Continuous Turns to Achieve these kinds of Epic Numbers. It CAN be done within a Turn Based Environment with some creative animation techniques to make the units look like they're fighting between turns. I'd really, Really, like to see Stardock live up to this, and so I think those of us who want this should make this Official Request so that Stardock can truly see how many of us want this. The Beta Testers never even got to see this system in action. We were told it was changed from continuous turns to better fit the "feel" they wanted, but that doesn't explain why the unit counts had to be cut down so drastically. 12 guys in a unit does Not Feel Epic in my book.

If you Don't Want to sign the request, but would rather debate it, then please reply in the other thread going about Epic Battles here: Epic Battles

If you DO want to see them live up to these numbers. Please Say So here. No one will get mad at you for voicing your opinion or asking that they live up to this picture that so many people bought Elemental based on. Again, if you Don't want to see this, please keep your replies in the other thread. Thank you.

~ Raven X and the Elemental Community


This post is a reply from page 10, but I thought it should be added to the original, because here is the proof some people might want to see who weren't here for the whole beta process, who didn't hear the devs go on and on about the Inspiration for the Game. This is what was in the hearts and minds of All Of Us when we were all getting excited about Elemental:

Here is the proof, Frogboy had Total War and Lord of The Rings Epic Scale Battles IN MIND when dreaming up what Elemental would be:

Post By FROGBOY: Elemental: scale of power , http://forums.elementalgame.com/343449

Here's a Quote from Frogboy from that post:

"If you like the Total War series, you can imagine some of what we have in mind except here you can get that Lord of the Rings battle feeling where certain units just make mince meat out of whole squads of enemy units."

There are others back in old Dev Journals too. Now, NO ONE can deny that Frogboy had Total War Type, Epic Scaled Battles, IN MIND when PLANNING Elemental: War Of Magic. For all you new people who wanted to see quotes, there it is. I can dig up more old quotes too. So, if Frogboy is Now Saying that ONLY MoM was his inspiration, well, something is fishy in Denmark...

Here's another one where Frogboy Specifically says "huge army" and "vast armies" in the same paragraph!!!

Post By FROGBOY: Design elements of Elemental discussed , http://forums.elementalgame.com/329219

Here's a List of Quotes from Frogboy from that post, some of which are mechanics that either changed, or were simply left out completely from the game we have now, like where he talks about having Walls in cities be a Big Part of tactical battles:

Quote:

I understand if some stuff is being kept internal, but here are the things I'm wondering about:

1. Are there non-military victory conditions?

2. Does the game include a campaign? If so do you think the story of the campaign will attract gamers?

3. How are you addressing the steamroller issue of TBS games (ie: spending the first half of the game building a massive army and the last half rolling it over all opponents as a repeatable strategy to every game)?1. Yes. Most of the victory conditions are non-military. Some of the previews may cover this so I won't say anything until after the previews hit.

2. Yes. I think the story is compelling but I'm highly biased.

3. The mechanics in Elemental are a bit different than the typical 4X game because even in terms of warfare, there are very different paths. For instance, Player A may have a huge army ready to steamroll but Player B may have an incredibly powerful sovereign who can wipe out vast armies and Player C may have built up an incredible well of mana that can be used to decimate vast swaths of the world and all three of these things could come together at once based on which path players take and of course all 3 could lose to Player D who wins through the quest victory condition if they're not careful.

Quote:

Can we build walls? Us turtelers need to know.

Yes. One of the key game mechanics of Elemental is how cities are built. In Elemental, when a city grows, it gains a new tile which can be placed where the player wants it to go (as long as it's adjacent to an existing tile). So cities are a multi-tile affair in the game. Now, how you choose to build up your city heavily determines how defensible or productive, or rich it is. Cities are only conquered when the keep tile is taken which could be in the utter center of the city or could be at the end of a peninsula.

Quote:

What are the objectives for the creation part? how many aspects will be able to be manipulated? will it be part of the game or you have to work on that on a separated editor (one of the many things I loved from MoM was the ability to forge items that were mine, created by me as part of my campaign and war effort). There will be pre-made maps and randomly generated maps in which players can insert a large number of variables in deciding what kind of world they want.

Quote:

I guess it will have random maps, what is the target for sizes? From tiny to ridiculously large. We are also making a 64-bit native edition to support even larger worlds.

Quote:

What type of feedback are you looking for the beta process? Everything. The beta process starts about 9 months before release so that beta testers can seriously mold the game.

On a personal note, for me the beta process is the whole point of making the game as that's what helped get me into game development in the first place.

I was one of those Usenet guys on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic hanging out talking about games and picked up Teach yourself C in 21 days to start writing (this is obviously a long time ago now). So hanging out with other gamers to tweak and add to the game is the best part.

Quote:

Any extra payment for the MMO part? what is the general idea of this? No. It's not really an MMO part as much as Impulse hosting the game on the cloud to make it much easier for people to interact with their "world" with their friends.


Quote:

Brad - will there be any way to quick-resolve combat? Playing out tactical combat is fun when the sides are at all matched, but it's just a drag on my patience when you're going to steamroll the other side or whatever. And sometimes you just want to get combat over with because you're focusing on the bigger picture or a "technology win" or something.

Totally. There's instant-resolve (i.e. two armies meet, one dies), there's auto-resolve where the game zooms in and shows a tactical battle but it's all handled by the AI (ala GalCiv II fleet battles) and then there's full tactical battles where both sides play.

One thing I should mention about the tactical battles that isn't clear in the screenshots is that they're continuous turns. They're not like HOMM. The player tells where they want their units and uses the space bar to pause the action to give new directions. That way, we can get much more interesting battles.

Quote:

What's your combat system going to be built around? Master of Magic-style tactical combat, or Civilization-style randomized abstraction? Or will both be options?It's tactical but it can be made to play like Civ if you have instant-resolve enabled.

I will likely play with auto-resolve as I'm not a huge fan of playing out tactical battles but I enjoy seeing the carnage.

If anyone has ever seen Fellowship of the Ring where Sauron is whacking out tons of elves and men around, that's the look we're going for.

Though, in Elemental, the creatures are much more powerful than a lone Maiar up against a bunch of punks. Dragons in Elemental are incredibly powerful and each of the channelers are equivalent (by late game) to Valar. Enough Tolkien geedkom.

Quote:

The few available screenshots look great. Hopefully we'll get a look at the spells soon. The spells are going to be intentionally de-balancing in late game. I.e. by late game, you'll be able to do Populous level damage to the world. A lot of the reason we had to create a new engine was because we needed one where the world could be truly wrecked.

Quote:

By doing that, you can then open the way to have extremely large maps in which players are viable for a long period of time with different paths to victory.


If anyone wants to play catch-up and read the rest of the Dev Journals that talk about the inspiration behind the game, behind the Original Vision, you can find them here:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/forum/513/page/7

Notice how many times Frogboy uses LotR as a direct example of both scale and feeling for the envisioned world of Elemental. He uses it in reference to the Scale Of Battles. He uses it in reference to the Power of Sovereigns. He uses for a lot of things because it is what is commonly known to a lot of fantasy lovers.

That's the very last page in the Dev Journal History. Hopefully some of this information, quoted Straight From The Source, will clear things up for those who may be questioning what the original vision was and what the vision is now. How many things here simply aren't even a part of the game now? A lot that I can see, but, this thread isn't about any of those. This Thread is about the game living up to it's EPIC INTENTIONS. This is about Follow Through. This is about a Vast Part of the Elemental Community wanting the vision to be maintained and lived up to because we want Elemental to be Successful. We want Elemental to be the VERY BEST Fantasy Strategy War Game on the market and some of us will not rest until either that happens, or we're cold, dead, and buried.

In closing, here's a mock-up screen shot I did just now. This took about 5 minutes in PhotoshopCS4. Please don't get crazy over the details. This picture isn't meant to be super detailed, it's just meant to show how the game should feel. The feeling of truly epic armies clashing for control of a ruined world. I only did one army, not two, but I could do a mock-up of two massive armies fighting if I wanted to, but I think the point is served none the less. I didn't spend a lot of time cleaning it up or smoothing over where I patched in clear land that was covered by rocks or cactuses that I just copy and paster terrain over. It's just meant to show the feeling of what it would be like to command a Real Army that's the size of what a Powerful Sovereign of a mighty civilization truly deserves.

From now on I'll only be replying to civil posts in a civil manner. I'm not going to defend my wording of the post any longer as I've stated what I meant more than enough times. I'm sorry if anyone took offense to my wording, but if you're one of the people who did, then this thread wasn't for you anyway, as it was only meant to Count The Numbers of those of us who want the game to live up to it's original vision and potential as much as possible.

I urge those who still want to see this to Please Keep Posting and let your voices be heard. Keep the memory of what the game was supposed to be alive in your mind and hearts and keep the ideas alive in the minds and hearts of Frogboy and the Team who have poured their blood, sweat, and tears into this game right along side of us who have been here with them. We've all invested a lot of time and energy and expectations into this game, and this game is a work of art. Lets strive to make it live up to it's potential and keep your voices being heard. Thank you one and all.

 

 

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September 14, 2010 8:09:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I want epic battles.  Not 12 squads vs. 12 squads, but hundreds of my units .vs an elder dragon or something like that.

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September 14, 2010 8:28:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Have I missed something, how would this work, to my knowledge this game wasn't total war and unless it were real-time, how would this function? I know I don't have the time to individually move hundreds of units, but if someone could explain how  this might work... I kinda like that tactical battles the way they are, but maybe this is something different?

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September 14, 2010 8:36:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting MrCapitalG,
Have I missed something, how would this work, to my knowledge this game wasn't total war and unless it were real-time, how would this function? I know I don't have the time to individually move hundreds of units, but if someone could explain how  this might work... I kinda like that tactical battles the way they are, but maybe this is something different?

You wouldn't be moving hundreds of men individually. You'd give orders to "Units" or "Groups" just like you do now, except those units/groups would have Far More Men in them than they have now. Aside from that it wouldn't change aside from maybe some animations so it looks like groups of units are fighting between turns. This is Highly Doable in a Turn Based Environment.

Please though, lets keep discussions in the other thread on Epic Battles. This Thread is to show Frogboy and the Team that the majority of the player base Does Want To See This. Which I'm pretty sure from the other thread they do. Also when you take into account that every person who posts on a game forum actually represents a few hundred who don't come to post, well, that's a sh!t load of people.

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September 14, 2010 8:38:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Signed, but like MrCapitalG above said, I don't want to spend hours in one battle moving hundreds of units, so if they could make this work then hell yeah.

"Turn Based Environment"  so that's what 'TBE' stands for, y'know I never knew that.

 Edit:  Raven done went and snuck his post in while I was typing.  What you said would work, having units representing lots of guys...  so long as they fix the squad/party mechanism, which we already know is in the works.

 

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September 14, 2010 8:38:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

OOHHH!  Pretty pictures!  I want it!  I want it now!

 

Yes, I agree it would be amazingly cool.  It's a very good thing that I didn't see this picture before.

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September 14, 2010 8:41:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

ultimately, i don't think anything will really cut it in 2010 - from both a visual and gameplay point of view - other than real time, total war style battles. i say this as someone who generally hates real time click fests like starcraft. if you don't believe me, play a total war battle. it's real tactics and a satisfying scale that's completely unabstracted and you can take ALL THE TIME YOU WANT.

unfortunately i don't hold out any hope for this for elemental. not elemental 1 anyway. the best we can hope for is:

better stats (kill combat speed, give us magic resistance) you can't represent a war of magic with 4 stats. much less one that attempts to represent large formations and powerful individuals at the same time

some real strategy (stop units from counterattacking units that attack from the flanks or rear, give charge bonuses to cavalry)

better visual presentation and animations (move all enemies simultaneously, and remove the clickfest)

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September 14, 2010 8:41:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Raven X for pres ... erm.

You got my vote

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September 14, 2010 8:41:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You have to remember that those old screenshots are representative of when tactical battles were real-time, but that changed during the beta.  Turn-based battles with hundreds of individual units would be annoying to the point that I think most players would just as soon auto resolve everything.  The only way to get an "epic" look is if each unit was represented by multiple characters, so you would effectively only have a dozen units on the screen but seemingly hundreds of individual soldiers.  In other words, absolutely nothing would change in terms of gameplay.

Personally, I'm fine with how it is now, and according to RavenX, there are hundreds of people who agree with me.

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September 14, 2010 8:45:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Unfortunately it does have to be real time for a picture like that to work. TBS combat simply doesn't function with that many things happening at once. You'll have lots of guys standing around while one does something. It will *never* look that way.

This is just the old "definition of epic" argument from months ago again. I don't see how just increasing the number of guys on screen makes it more "epic". If the squad is 1000 guys but it plays exactly the same way as it does with 8, then it's not epic. It's just screen clutter.

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September 14, 2010 8:46:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I want Epicness

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September 14, 2010 8:52:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You got my vote. To answer to Mtn_Man, it could be simple: in the RTS style, you can select a group of unit by click and drop your mouse. So, if you could select a lot of unit and make them move/attack at the same time I think the battle could be managable and reasonnably fast . I don't know if you can do that tough.

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September 14, 2010 8:52:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tridus,
Unfortunately it does have to be real time for a picture like that to work. TBS combat simply doesn't function with that many things happening at once. You'll have lots of guys standing around while one does something. It will *never* look that way.

This is what animations are for my friend. I've played plenty of turn based war games where you pick a squad of men and mêlée attack another squad of men. Assuming neither squad dies from the attack, the animations of those guys fighting keep going while you tell another unit what to do. It can be done in a turn based environment with a minimal amount of creativity, and if there's one thing the Devs and the rest of us here have, it's creativity. It's been done in the past and it can be done here. I WANT Epic Numbers!!!

Think outside the TBS box brother .

Quoting Tridus,
This is just the old "definition of epic" argument from months ago again. I don't see how just increasing the number of guys on screen makes it more "epic". If the squad is 1000 guys but it plays exactly the same way as it does with 8, then it's not epic. It's just screen clutter.

I gotta disagree with that my friend. (so much for keeping discussions in the other thread) Unit count on screen has a Profound Feeling on the game environment. It's not just graphics or clutter. Even now, 12 guys plays like 3, so why have 12? It doesn't change how it plays, it changes how it Feels, and that's what matters here. The game-play can stay exactly the same. You do program design don't you my friend? You should know this as well as I do being an ex game developer.

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September 14, 2010 8:54:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tridus,
Unfortunately it does have to be real time for a picture like that to work. TBS combat simply doesn't function with that many things happening at once. You'll have lots of guys standing around while one does something. It will *never* look that way.

This is just the old "definition of epic" argument from months ago again. I don't see how just increasing the number of guys on screen makes it more "epic". If the squad is 1000 guys but it plays exactly the same way as it does with 8, then it's not epic. It's just screen clutter.

Unfortunately Tridus' sentiments are exactly what I was thinking, the whole point of 12 vs 12 is abstraction, it can still be mighty armies in your head, but as with all games, we generally abstract down to something manageable. I just feel as though real-time battles are the only way to properly show this, but then again maybe I'm missing something, I dunno.

In all honesty, that screen shot is nothing more than marketing, and frankly at it's worst, since it wasn't even delivered. I'm happy to say i never saw that screen shot till now, if that was on the box, that is pretty deplorable I think cause it does give a very incorrect view of the game as it exists, I can see why others are excited if that's the case though, it does look cool

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September 14, 2010 8:55:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I want to see this happen.

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September 14, 2010 9:00:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting MrCapitalG,



Quoting Tridus,
reply 9
Unfortunately it does have to be real time for a picture like that to work. TBS combat simply doesn't function with that many things happening at once. You'll have lots of guys standing around while one does something. It will *never* look that way.

This is just the old "definition of epic" argument from months ago again. I don't see how just increasing the number of guys on screen makes it more "epic". If the squad is 1000 guys but it plays exactly the same way as it does with 8, then it's not epic. It's just screen clutter.


Unfortunately Tridus' sentiments are exactly what I was thinking, the whole point of 12 vs 12 is abstraction, it can still be mighty armies in your head, but as with all games, we generally abstract down to something manageable. I just feel as though real-time battles are the only way to properly show this, but then again maybe I'm missing something, I dunno.

In all honesty, that screen shot is nothing more than marketing, and frankly at it's worst, since it wasn't even delivered. I'm happy to say i never saw that screen shot till now, if that was on the box, that is pretty deplorable I think cause it does give a very incorrect view of the game as it exists, I can see why others are excited if that's the case though, it does look cool

Check out my revised reply I made to Tridus, my friend. This CAN be done. I've been playing games for 24 years (32 now, been playing since I was 8). I've SEEN Epic Battles done in turn based games plenty of times in the past (even on consoles like the Old School 8 bit Nintendo). As a ex developer myself I can tell you from first hand experience that if I had the money to afford the tools to do it, and could hire the team to do it, I could design it Perfectly and it would Look Epic. It CAN be done Without drastically changing game-play. It's a visual feeling. Whether you're selecting a group of 12 men, or a group of 50 men, it's the same. It's the Feeling that changes. It's the logistics of the battle that change. All they need to add to make it Look Good is a "Interim Animations" so the units don't just stand there with their thumbs up their butts.

I don't want to come off sounding like a know it all, which I know I sound like sometimes, but somehow I feel like I shouldn't have to be explaining these things to game developers. I worked on Ultima Online. I worked on Mech Commander 2. I worked on America's Army. I beta tested Madden for EA Tiburon when they still had offices in Orlando. I know from first hand design experience that this IS possible, and the Devs know it too. Anything they say otherwise is a snow-ball excuse because I KNOW it's possible and won't change game-play any more than what's already being planned as changes (which honestly some of the upcoming changes are WAY more drastic than this).

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September 14, 2010 9:17:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would like to put forth a Official Request from the Player Base of Elemental

Not that I disapprove of the idea behind this post, this kind of thing really irks me. *You* do not speak for the Player Base of Elemental. *You* do not speak for me. You don't speak for anyone but yourself, and you have no authority to speak for anyone else.

If you want "Epicness", say you want Epicness and people who agree will post that they agree. But don't pretend that you speak as the "Voice of the Community".

For the record, I personally don't care much one way or the other. The scale of battles is a minor issue in the current scheme of things - there are much more pressing issues to resolve with them. Having lots of stuff would be fine.. if tactical battles worked well enough.

Apologies for the slight derail, just really annoys me when people pretend to speak for everyone.

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September 14, 2010 9:21:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't doubt it CAN be done, a lot of things can be done and yes you do come off like a know it all, but I won't hold it against you, least you admit it I'm also a software developer and I know what you mean by given enough time and gold, it can be done, I don't' dispute that at all, I just wonder about the logistics of it all. At the very least and I thought I saw this mentioned somewhere way in the past, that battles could 'scale' and that it would be an option we modify in an options window or something. I'd at least like this because I'm plenty fine having 12 v 12 tactical battles, to reduce the clutter and keep things manageable on screen. I guess I'm not a fan of things looking epic-like, but I don't intend to take the idea away from others, as long as it's either done well or I have the option to 'scale it down', I'm happy as a clam. I just don't want to lose the MoM aspects the game does already have and one of those heavily being the tactical battles with a manageable amount of units.

Ultima Online, now there is a game I sorely miss, the first year or so of it's public release, best. game. ever. then it got all hacked to bits

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September 14, 2010 9:22:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like epicness but...

Why is this a 'official' thread?

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September 14, 2010 9:24:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

As others have said, this translates poorly to turn-based.  Most people do not want to move 30 units every turn in a tactical battle.  However, the unit graphics themselves might be changed to include more soldiers.  Assuming there are no serious performance issues, that would look somewhat better.

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September 14, 2010 9:25:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,
Apologies for the slight derail, just really annoys me when people pretend to speak for everyone.

The fact that I know your name associated with this 'irritation of yours', means that you've made your point. Trust me, people who say they 'speak for everyone' are usually just very passionate and not trying to suggest that you, specifically, Annatar, supports them, or that anyone else does, other than they've read enough evidence to feel as though it's a majority view. If you disagree, say as much and try not to take it personally.

I would argue he is speaking for many others as indicated in other threads.

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September 14, 2010 9:25:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

where are my epic battles

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September 14, 2010 9:29:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm all for epic battles.

You have my axe.

 

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September 14, 2010 9:31:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

+1 from me.

 

It may be horribly nerdy, but if Warhammer/GamesWorkshop can implement a tabletop turnbased game where both sides field large armies, then surely a PC game can do the same?

 

I really don't want a King'sBounty/HoMM style tactical combat game in Elemental. Which isn't to say I'm not enjoying King's Bounty (have been playing while I wait for Elemental to at least get past the savegame breaking patches...), but they don't really fit with the 4x feel IMO.

 

And also, more importantly, they don't really add any tactics! Given that the campaign world in on a grid, there's no reason why all the stack v stack combat could be worked out there, rather than having to abstractly move from one scale to another.

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September 14, 2010 9:43:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Mtn_Man,
You have to remember that those old screenshots are representative of when tactical battles were real-time, but that changed during the beta.  Turn-based battles with hundreds of individual units would be annoying to the point that I think most players would just as soon auto resolve everything.

You're not seeing the "big picture" my friend. You Won't be clicking on hundreds of individual men because those men would Still be in Units/Groups just as they are now. Nothing NEEDS to change from a game-play perspective as far as the nature of the Turn Based Battles go. The rest of the strategic game would have to be rebalanced to accommodate larger sizes, but, that's just a balancing act with numbers. Does it really make sense that a farm that's supposed to be feeding a couple thousand people should put out +1 food? How hard is it to make a farm produce +100 food instead of +1 food?  Not very, because I can do it in the XML right now.

All that's needed to make this happen successfully in a Turn Based Environment is Time, and they have plenty of that now because we're past the release deadline. That's the real reason why the numbers for everything are so small you know, because small numbers are easy to balance in a big game. According to Frogboy the reason is Not because the engine can't handle it. So what does that leave? We know people told them from the start they wanted epic battles, and for a while that was planned with the continuous turns, but just because the style of tactical battle changed didn't mean the numbers behind it HAD to change, they didn't. But because the numbers were larger they had to be balanced across the board for the entire system, and that takes time to do which they didn't have. Not to mention make the animations to keep this system looking good in a turn based environment. Just because the actual attacks stopped and the damage has been calculated, the animations of those units fighting can keep going until new orders are given next turn. Again though, making all those animations for the wide unit variety in Elemental takes a lot of time, which they didn't have pre-release. They've got the time now, and with that picture being pushed as advertising, it's something many people think they owe to those who bought the game expecting it to look like that.

I'm not trying to down on them for not making it look like this from the start. I've been here from the start and I saw first hand what happened and any of us who were here can attest that when the window got pushed up they didn't have the time it takes to make this happen in a Turn Based Environment. Now they do. The visual change and re-balance like this could only Improve the game's feel. They would achieve the feeling they wanted from the start when Frogboy was talking about a Sauron type channeler swinging his weapon and knocking away a group of men. That can STILL be done and we Don't have to wait for Elemental 2 to see it happen. In fact if we do have to wait for Elemental 2 to see that happen I'll be really pissed, because that's still many years away according to Frogboy. While I'll always be a loyal Stardock customer if a promise from Elemental 1 doesn't come along until Elemental 2 I'd be really let down. Let down to the point of seriously having to consider my future purchases.

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September 14, 2010 9:50:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

/not signed as that kind of battle would weigh to heavy on older computers. Everyone doesn't own an i7 quad core with 8gb of memory and the fastest video card out there.

I'm glad they went to the smaller army sizes as I was a proponent in asking for that many eons ago with good reasoning as I've stated above. Stardock in its infinite wisdom saw the light and removed the twichfest game and brought back the elements of the turn based game which is always best for strategy and tactical gamers.

So don't worry about that kind of fix or change Stardock the majority of us out here don't want it. ))

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