[1.06] Elemental has detected a corrupt patch, please log in to update.

By on September 1, 2010 4:49:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Shadowlord

Join Date 07/2008
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What to do? I have just recieved this issue this morning and there apparently is no patch?

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September 2, 2010 4:59:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

btw if for some reason i dont know u cant update from impolse and u still have the bug.and ur a legal buyer the FIX has something to do with the date ur pc clock say

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September 2, 2010 7:52:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kryo,

and are a legitimate user of Elemental.
No one is visitored (we only revoke posting privileges) by the moderation team based on a single factor alone.

1) You experienced the tampered-exe error, even after a clean reinstall.

2) You posted a debug.err file indicating no version data--that is, the game was not installed or updated via Impulse or a retail disc.

3) A query of the system indicated you have no registrations on the account you were posting under--for Elemental or any other products.

 

If you have another account with all your registrations on it and 1) and 2) were some sort of freak coincidence, please point it out and we will gladly restore your posting privileges with our apologies. Posting revocations are only being placed if the user also fails a registration check first, to ensure that no legitimate customers are accidentally visitored.

 

my 2p on this...

I can think of several reasons why one would want to play with a cracked and/or modified version:

  • There's people like me who like to buy the games, keep them mint (and I mean mint : not opened) play it using a cracked version and once you're done with it sell it on ebay or what have you... I believe this is not illegal... I do it all the time, it works great for the kind of game I'm playing at.
  • Moreover, how about the guys in Europe who have not received their copy yet? does that mean they have to wait even tho they are entitled to play since they bought it?
  • I won't even mention the large memory fix, because it has been pointed out earlier anyway...
  • on a side note, with the state of the game right now I think the more the merrier! Stardock should be happy about the fact that even people playing with the cracked version are submitting their debug. Then once it's all back on track, then maybe you can do something about it... But right now the state of the game is ridiculous and you know that very well...

Conclusion:
I think you've already pissed off enough people for now... yet by implementing stuff like this, and bragging about how you were not evil like the others, you've just shot yourself in the foot.

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September 2, 2010 7:54:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting surlybob,

Quoting Machater, reply 52 As multiplayer was being prepared they needed to make sure people could not cheat online. If the game didn't check itself out, it would be real easy to cheat online.Then block access to multiplayer. Blocking access to everything is specifically a move against piracy (DRM). Exhibit A: What was the first thing in this thread the stardock employee mentioned? Answer: piracy.
Stardock sells out its supposed principles, yet again!

 

especially if you go around bragging about how against DRM and such like you're! I feel misled to be honest... as soon as I receive my box I send it back and ask for a refund

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September 2, 2010 7:56:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nick-Danger,

Quoting Machater, reply 52As the person who let this Out of Memory "fix" out, I must first apologize to Stardock for causing this mess... Apologize?!?!
Heck, you deserve a medal.  Best I can do it   (well, I could give more karma but 1's my limit)

I experience the OOM crash fairly often (one thing I notice is that saving instigates it, especially if I'm starting to see stuttering then save, but also saving after playing for 10 minutes with no noticeable stuttering) and the 'uncheck localized date' trick didn't help.  I haven't tried your fix yet but will pretty soon (will see first in 1.07 fixes this).

Heck, SD should give you a free copy of the game for this.

 

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September 2, 2010 8:30:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting c0rwin,


There's people like me who like to buy the games, keep them mint (and I mean mint : not opened) play it using a cracked version and once you're done with it sell it on ebay or what have you... I believe this is not illegal... I do it all the time, it works great for the kind of game I'm playing at.
Moreover, how about the guys in Europe who have not received their copy yet? does that mean they have to wait even tho they are entitled to play since they bought it?
Aren't these tow points rather meaningless with the digital download option available?

The point though is that any non-standard exe is a risk to legitimate players and the check was put in place before the memory leak and fix were discovered and applied.    It's not like it was malicious.

 

Lastly, teh next update to the game will likely address the semi-legitimacy of the patch and not check for it.  Sounds like a good thing.

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September 2, 2010 8:32:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

btw if for some reason i dont know u cant update from impolse and u still have the bug.and ur a legal buyer the FIX has something to do with the date ur pc clock say

quoting myself....

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September 2, 2010 8:38:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

lets say that in ancient greece august 30 was a celabration for the winter to come....thats what i heard from a friend

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September 2, 2010 8:40:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting c0rwin,


my 2p on this...

I can think of several reasons why one would want to play with a cracked and/or modified version:


There's people like me who like to buy the games, keep them mint (and I mean mint : not opened) play it using a cracked version and once you're done with it sell it on ebay or what have you... I believe this is not illegal... I do it all the time, it works great for the kind of game I play to.
Moreover, how about the guys in Europe who have not received their copy yet? does that mean they have to wait even tho they are entitled to play since they bought it?
I won't even mention the large memory fix, because it has been pointed out earlier anyway...
on a side note, with the state of the game right now I think the more the merrier! Stardock should be happy about the fact that even people playing with the cracked version are submitting their debug. Then once it's all back on track, then maybe you can do something about it... But right now the state of the game is ridiculous and you know that very well...
Conclusion:
I think you've already pissed off enough people like that for now... yet by implementing stuff like that, and bragging about how you were not evil like the others, you've just shot yourself in the foot.

I must point out that I am not involved in the core development of Elemental, my involvement has with the exception of the new frame rate cap and cpu usage limiter added in 1.07 been limited to the development of the overlay technology used by the game (and demigod to a degree).  This includes the mods UI for sharing mods between users along with some other dialogs that you see such as the update ready message.  It is also not my job to respond to forum posts and my replies here should not be taken as an official statement from Stardock or even a Stardock representative.

---

Downloading a pirate copy and keeping your boxed copy intact is not going to work if you want to play multiplayer.  You will need the serial number from within the box.  It is also true that if you download a pirate copy then you take the risk associated with that.  If you end up with a virus on your PC then thats not Stardocks fault and likewise if you bypass the one time activation in the patches then you can hardly complain when it doesnt work.  I own legal copies of Windows 7, but if I decide not to activate it then the OS will reset my wallpaper to black every 2 hours and nag me about it when I login.

I am pretty sure boxed purchases from Impulse would also be provided with access via Impulse as the game will be associated with their user account.  So they could download before their box arrives.

The retail copies were also only intended for the US market and so apart from sales direct from Impulse (where as above I am pretty sure they can download it too) those copies should not be for sale outside of the US.

The large memory patch is an interesting case.  I believe enabling that setting was something that was considered pre release but was decided against for what I assume were legitimate reasons.  I know such a patch can cause DirectX problems as it is not being told that the app may be using higher addresses.  As has previously been said on this thread, the next update will allow that patch to run without problems.

Let me stress again that to the best of my knowledge elemental does not contain CD checks / restrictive DRM.  The patches installed from Impulse require a one time activation (as Sins of a Solar empire did) and once activated the products will continue to run on your PC with or without internet access.  The pirated copies (and those who patched their game with a third party exe patch) simply triggered the checksum code.  If your PC had a virus which infected the files or if your PC crashed and the files got damaged then the very same thing would happen.  It is not linked to activation or any internet spying / checking and Stardock cannot remotely disable your copy of the game. 

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September 2, 2010 9:14:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Let me stress again that to the best of my knowledge elemental does not contain CD checks

Yes, Elemental does not do a disk check. I got my LE box, and it's unopened and I'm playing Elemental just fine. The whole "I must crack the executable because I want to keep the box in mint condition" thing does not apply to Elemental, given the lack of disk check.

Fun fact: The pirated Skidrow version is based on the Digital Download of the game, thus it does require a cracked executable because the DD does do a one-time auth. If they had waited to pirate the retail disk, all they would've needed to do is make a disk image and upload it. No crack required.

Of course, once you start trying to patch it it's a different story Anyone who claims they need a cracked exe because they want to keep the box closed is an obvious pirate

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September 2, 2010 9:22:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,
Fun fact: The pirated Skidrow version is based on the Digital Download of the game, thus it does require a cracked executable because the DD does do a one-time auth. If they had waited to pirate the retail disk, all they would've needed to do is make a disk image and upload it. No crack required.

I think it has something to do with the delays in sending the boxed version to those who ordered it, the download version is just more accessible ATM.

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September 2, 2010 9:44:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Neil Banfield,

Quoting c0rwin, reply 102


I must point out that I am not involved in the core development of Elemental, my involvement has with the exception of the new frame rate cap and cpu usage limiter added in 1.07 been limited to the development of the overlay technology used by the game (and demigod to a degree).  This includes the mods UI for sharing mods between users along with some other dialogs that you see such as the update ready message.  It is also not my job to respond to forum posts and my replies here should not be taken as an official statement from Stardock or even a Stardock representative.

---

Downloading a pirate copy and keeping your boxed copy intact is not going to work if you want to play multiplayer.  You will need the serial number from within the box.  It is also true that if you download a pirate copy then you take the risk associated with that.  If you end up with a virus on your PC then thats not Stardocks fault and likewise if you bypass the one time activation in the patches then you can hardly complain when it doesnt work.  I own legal copies of Windows 7, but if I decide not to activate it then the OS will reset my wallpaper to black every 2 hours and nag me about it when I login.

I am pretty sure boxed purchases from Impulse would also be provided with access via Impulse as the game will be associated with their user account.  So they could download before their box arrives.

The retail copies were also only intended for the US market and so apart from sales direct from Impulse (where as above I am pretty sure they can download it too) those copies should not be for sale outside of the US.

The large memory patch is an interesting case.  I believe enabling that setting was something that was considered pre release but was decided against for what I assume were legitimate reasons.  I know such a patch can cause DirectX problems as it is not being told that the app may be using higher addresses.  As has previously been said on this thread, the next update will allow that patch to run without problems.

Let me stress again that to the best of my knowledge elemental does not contain CD checks / restrictive DRM.  The patches installed from Impulse require a one time activation (as Sins of a Solar empire did) and once activated the products will continue to run on your PC with or without internet access.  The pirated copies (and those who patched their game with a third party exe patch) simply triggered the checksum code.  If your PC had a virus which infected the files or if your PC crashed and the files got damaged then the very same thing would happen.  It is not linked to activation or any internet spying / checking and Stardock cannot remotely disable your copy of the game. 

 

 

First thank you for your answer... I was not looking for one, just merely stating what I presumed the silent mass was thinking

It's good to know that there's no security check of any kind and above all no spyware, but to be honest I candidly - and perhaps a wee bit naively - never thought it could be the case. I understand that what thrown people off was the fact that out of the blue the game stopped working when it was working very well beforehand... That's kind of spooky don't you think?
I understand it was some kind of time bomb and I appreciate your effort to prevent cheating and all that even if I personally think that this is a tad bit ludicrous considering there's many other ways to mingle with a piece of software like this one (other than modifying the main executable itself that is). Checking for a trivial chksum on the main executable is probably seldom going to catch real cheaters albeit if it's done with good intentions. In my eyes, stating that this is done for the good of the community is not only misleading but also profoundly disingenuous.

I'm are here to say goodbye to you for now, and we don't have a good word for it in English -- the best is au revoir. I'll see you in a 6 months when I can run the game as it's meant to be. If anyone is looking for a mint box version of the game in Europe I'll have one soon... Just send me a private message...

 

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September 2, 2010 9:48:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,

Let me stress again that to the best of my knowledge elemental does not contain CD checks
Yes, Elemental does not do a disk check. I got my LE box, and it's unopened and I'm playing Elemental just fine. The whole "I must crack the executable because I want to keep the box in mint condition" thing does not apply to Elemental, given the lack of disk check.

Fun fact: The pirated Skidrow version is based on the Digital Download of the game, thus it does require a cracked executable because the DD does do a one-time auth. If they had waited to pirate the retail disk, all they would've needed to do is make a disk image and upload it. No crack required.

Of course, once you start trying to patch it it's a different story Anyone who claims they need a cracked exe because they want to keep the box closed is an obvious pirate

 

I have not received the box how would I know about this?
I did like I always do: pre-order on amazon or what have you and look for the first cracked version avail...

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September 2, 2010 9:49:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think it has something to do with the delays in sending the boxed version to those who ordered it, the download version is just more accessible ATM.

That and the fact that the DD version was available earlier than stores got their boxes. In some cases, the pirate groups manage to get ahold of retail disks before street date (swiped from factory floor, or access to retail store stock, etc), but in most cases they grab whatever is available first.

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September 2, 2010 9:51:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting _PawelS_,

Quoting Annatar11, reply 109Fun fact: The pirated Skidrow version is based on the Digital Download of the game, thus it does require a cracked executable because the DD does do a one-time auth. If they had waited to pirate the retail disk, all they would've needed to do is make a disk image and upload it. No crack required.
I think it has something to do with the delays in sending the boxed version to those who ordered it, the download version is just more accessible ATM.

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September 2, 2010 10:11:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

By the way, also, SD will be shipping at a later time versions of the game CD with the latest patch to those who want it and/or do not have internet access. 

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September 2, 2010 10:23:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Stardock should be happy about the fact that even people playing with the cracked version are submitting their debug. Then once it's all back on track, then maybe you can do something about it...

The issue with that is that bad cracks can and do cause new malfunctions in the game, which pirates then try to get support from us for (!) and our time is wasted chasing down such illegitimate reports when we're trying to resolve issues for paying customers as quickly as we can. So they are in fact reducing the quality and timeliness of service that our customers receive at a time when those things are more important than ever. Piracy is not a victimless act.

 

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September 2, 2010 12:06:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kryo,

Stardock should be happy about the fact that even people playing with the cracked version are submitting their debug. Then once it's all back on track, then maybe you can do something about it...
The issue with that is that bad cracks can and do cause new malfunctions in the game, which pirates then try to get support from us for (!) and our time is wasted chasing down such illegitimate reports when we're trying to resolve issues for paying customers as quickly as we can. So they are in fact reducing the quality and timeliness of service that our customers receive at a time when those things are more important than ever. Piracy is not a victimless act.

 

Thank you for your answer kryo as I understand you guys are all busy

I appreciate that, but with my limited knowledge off your product I'm not sure how changes to the impulse side of things (or walking around any kind of security check for that matter) would indeed inject in-game problems... Maybe you can enlighten us. Once again while it might be true that some cracks add some problems, it's also disingenuous to state that those debugs generated with a cracked version are all a waste of time. The memory leaks, negative gold, and 3d graphics performance should not be impacted by a handful of cunning tricks upon startup...
I'm not in any way defending piracy, just merely pointing out the discrepancies between allegations and reality.

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September 2, 2010 12:30:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting c0rwin,

Quoting kryo, reply 116
Stardock should be happy about the fact that even people playing with the cracked version are submitting their debug. Then once it's all back on track, then maybe you can do something about it...
The issue with that is that bad cracks can and do cause new malfunctions in the game, which pirates then try to get support from us for (!) and our time is wasted chasing down such illegitimate reports when we're trying to resolve issues for paying customers as quickly as we can. So they are in fact reducing the quality and timeliness of service that our customers receive at a time when those things are more important than ever. Piracy is not a victimless act.

 
Thank you for your answer kryo as I understand you guys are all busy

I appreciate that, but with my limited knowledge off your product I'm not sure how changes to the impulse side of things (or walking around any kind of security check for that matter) would indeed inject in-game problems... Maybe you can enlighten us. Once again while it might be true that some cracks add some problems, it's also disingenuous to state that those debugs generated with a cracked version are all a waste of time. The memory leaks, negative gold, and 3d graphics performance should not be impacted by a handful of cunning tricks upon startup...
I'm not in any way defending piracy, just merely pointing out the discrepancies between allegations and reality.

 

Off the top of my head, as a programmer with no knowledge of the implementation of Elemental.  A binary patch, which is what a crack is, could be accidentally over-writing a code segment which is in charge of garbage collection, causing memory leaks.  Actually the same is true for all of the bugs you are listing. Binary patching is tricky enough when you've produced both the original and patched binary, patching something you didn't write and you don't have source code for is just asking for all sorts of trouble. 

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September 2, 2010 1:03:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Machater, thank you for the patch you posted. It allowed me to play without the OOM errors that have plagued me (up until the 1st, of course).  Like the other poster said, you deserve a friggin' medal and if it were possible, you'd have a beer popping out of your disk-drive right about now.  Great job

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September 2, 2010 9:35:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

To all those who plan on getting a refund, make sure you have everything ready up front.

This means the game's serial number, your hardware and OS specs, descriptions of the problems and how to reproduce, a .zip containing all the logs produced by the SDSupportTool.exe, and maybe a few of the .zip files found in C:\ProgramData\Stardock\Elemental - War of Magic that follow this format:

 Elemental1_06-2010-08-27T15-44-05-132.zip

The support team will stall as long as possible on a full refund, often offering the 75% option as a quick fix, but be consistent and insist that you want the full refund.  It isn't as easy and quick as others say.  The game is obviously broken technically and I've posted a few times about my issues but I'm still being asked for logs and such by tech support, who clearly do not want to approve my refund.

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September 3, 2010 4:27:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting dragoaskani,


 Giving a reason or not doesn't change theft. If a man has a starving child at home and robs a convenience store hes still going to jail. If stardock is smart they IP trace the admitted pirate and report him to his ISP. By law his internet provider will have to shut him off if they get more then 1 complaint. So then he will be perma banned from that provider and have to find a new one. IF there is another one for him in his area. Matter of fact wonder if I can trace his IP...

Not to be splitting hairs, but

1) "Stealing software" is not the same as stealing bread or money. Software is a bunch of digital data that can be copied in infinite numbers wihtout any loss in quality. As that, you can't "Steal" it, unless you delete the source after you make your copy. With that said, you can still use it illegally, but thats a completely different article in the law, called copyright infringement. Sorry, but i really hate the stupid theft analogies

2) As SD is well aware of this, a pirate is usually not a criminal, but more likely a potential but hesitant customer. If your product is convincing enough, he may turn and buy it. While some would go out and buy games if there would not be an option to pirate them, there are a lot more who just wouldn't. Many of the pirates are kids or young adults, who have no income of their own and no parents willing to buy them everything. They are the gaming enthusiasts, who - once they grow up and get their own money source - will keep the industry running by buying several games a month.

3) Last, but not least. Copyright law varies a lot depending on where you live. Distributing illegal copies is against the law almost everywhere, but downloading / using copies.. now thats a rather grey area.

I just wanted to point out, that piracy is not as black and white as some people point it out to be, and while I do not think it to be okay to openly admit that you are doing it, i also do not think that it should be the thing to blame for every problem the software industry has.

Quoting spacecadet78,

Off the top of my head, as a programmer with no knowledge of the implementation of Elemental. A binary patch, which is what a crack is, could be accidentally over-writing a code segment which is in charge of garbage collection, causing memory leaks.

Cracking involves disassembling the code and going through the assembly code to find the pieces that need to be changes. Thats why it is called reverse engineering. It is not just randomly modifying pieces of the executable file hoping for the best.

As with all programming, cracking is also prone to introducing bugs, especially since most crackers work under pressure to get things done before the other guy does. (It is some weird kind of competition going on in that scene, thats why they do it in the first place)

As for the bugs in the game. No offense, but my completely legal copy of the game plays like a beta, no matter how i twist and turn it, so i do not think that blaming any bugs on cracks is okay at this point. I do think however, that those with cracked versions should STFU and not pollute the forums with their problems as they make finding problems a lot harder by adding an extra variable to the mix: "Is it because of the crack?"

No idea really, why SD does not limit the forums based on game ownership. Not all of them of course, just the ones with the actual technical discussions in it. Would probably make their own life a lot easier.

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September 3, 2010 9:46:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ehh why am i getting this error i got the legit game from my friend :/ well my friend cant get his game to work either >.< which is BS and by the looks of it im guessing stardock failed with this "DRM" :/ this game had so much potential yet u released a "game" that is compleltely UNfinished and will probably be finished after 20 or 30 more patches :/ way to go stardock im dissapointed not ur fan anymore

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September 3, 2010 8:25:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting delijoe79,

Quoting CainStar, reply 7Yes I am using a pirate copy.....and I like this game and I will buy it once all the expansions are out and most of the bugs are gone. I did this with Galactic Civilization 2. Like it or not......ban me or not.
LOL... I work as a loss prevention officer for a major retailer.  If all thieves were like you it would make my job a whole lot easier.  You realize that you essentially told the developers that you stole the game.  I love stupid criminals...

 

Just registered to point out a moron. Here goes.

 

No, mr "loss prevention officer", you... are the complete retard. Who employs you as a what? You gotta be kidding me, you don't have the slightest idea on how the justice system works.

People can claim anything, we call that "freedom of speech".

I can claim for instance that I am Osama Bin Laden and I'm planning to sell nuclear weapons to Iran. Does that mean anything without proper proof that I am actually doing that? Of course not. The authorities would actually need SUBSTANTIAL PROOF about this before anything. But you don't know anything about that. You're just an idiot, "loss prevention officer" lol. That shit would probably work on 12 year olds, but pray you don't stumble on an actual intelligent well taught man while doing your silly job. You'll be rubbing your ass on them court benches on actual charges of "harassment" sooner than you would think possible.

Oh, and, of course, I too... am using an illegal copy of whatever you're trying to "loss prevent". I'll be happy to provide you with whatever info you need to track my ass down and sue me or whatever. Trust me... i have absolutely nothing against it lol.

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September 3, 2010 8:25:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting delijoe79,

Quoting CainStar, reply 7Yes I am using a pirate copy.....and I like this game and I will buy it once all the expansions are out and most of the bugs are gone. I did this with Galactic Civilization 2. Like it or not......ban me or not.
LOL... I work as a loss prevention officer for a major retailer.  If all thieves were like you it would make my job a whole lot easier.  You realize that you essentially told the developers that you stole the game.  I love stupid criminals...

 

Just registered to point out a moron. Here goes.

 

No, mr "loss prevention officer", you... are the complete retard. Who employs you as a what? You gotta be kidding me, you don't have the slightest idea on how the justice system works.

People can claim anything, we call that "freedom of speech".

I can claim for instance that I am Osama Bin Laden and I'm planning to sell nuclear weapons to Iran. Does that mean anything without proper proof that I am actually doing that? Of course not. The authorities would actually need SUBSTANTIAL PROOF about this before anything. But you don't know anything about that. You're just an idiot, "loss prevention officer" lol. That shit would probably work on 12 year olds, but pray you don't stumble on an actual intelligent well taught man while doing your silly job. You'll be rubbing your ass on them court benches on actual charges of "harassment" sooner than you would think possible.

Oh, and, of course, I too... am using an illegal copy of whatever you're trying to "loss prevent". I'll be happy to provide you with whatever info you need to track my ass down and sue me or whatever. Trust me... i have absolutely nothing against it lol.

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September 3, 2010 8:36:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DeeFaye,
Just registered to point out a moron.
You only needed a mirror? Certainly an stelar introduction of yourself to the forums.

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