Kemsley

Join Date 08/2010

Brad owes Stardock fans an apology...

Before i rant let me clarify that i love stardock and have always admired Brads and his companys attitude on many issues such as DRM but i really feel he made a terriable call with Elemental that breaches various promises that he constantly assures people his company belives in. Here are two lines from the gamers bill of rights that Stardock themselves came up with...

2) Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

5) Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

I agree with those statements as i do the whole bill of rights and no one can tell me that Elemental, Stardocks long awaited new game comes close to fulfilling them. Many many people are still completely unable to even play the damn thing and those that can run it are constantly running into bug after bug, the game is broken and clearly unfinished. What really annoys me however is that Brad and his company were clearly aware of these issues as evident from the whole "PC gamer" incident, he was told time and again it isn't ready. There isn't even an evil publisher like EA rushing them to release, they publish there own games and there's no excuse for this. All i hear from the Fan boys on this forum is "GalCiv was the same, they will patch it" and "Stardock will support it, dont worry the game will be fixed", i have no doubt that this is correct but it does not excuse the release of an unfinished and to many people an unplayable game. I waited since the announcement of Elemental, refusing to apply for beta so as not to spoil a game i was so massively looking forward to only to wind up in a beta anyway. The release version of this game barley deserves a 6 out of 10 on a reputable review site (Gamespot have tried to play it on three systems and are luaghably unable to even play it to write a review at all) imo and that's sad because that will stain forever a game that should have been remembered as a classic.

Ill wait this out and bear the frustration because i can see underneath is a gem but its a hard bitter pill to swallow, i feel Brad needs to admit he made a mistake and apologise esspecially to those that pre ordered the game. The wait for Diablo 3 is litterally killing me but i know it will be worth it because i trust Blizzard to release a polished solid product, Stardock and many other companies should take a page from there book.

elemental

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JesperEB

Personally I think the "Gamers Bill of Rights" is and always has been nothing but pandering to a certain whiney demographic of gamers. I also think it is offensive to other developers/publishers...game development is tough and even the best intentions with a great plan can end up with issues. Stardock themselves can't live up to their own doctorine.

I think a company being committed to providing a quality product is awesome. Striving to create the best product possible is also wonderful. Committing to ongoing support for titles and support is great. But creating some doctrine that nobody can live up to does a disservice to all...even gamers.

I really like Stardock, I like Impulse, and I think Elemental will be a fantastic game once patched up a bit. With that said, I can't help but feel what has transpired is deserving.

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You're a couple of days behind, here.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392474

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392671

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Quoting Caduceus06,

reply 2

You're a couple of days behind, here.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392474

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392671

All I see in those links are some poor attempts to blame every fault in the game on the broken street date. As if the those few days of lost work were the ones that would have allowed Stardock to magically transform the game to a finished product. Thats just not true and its pretty insulting to expect anyone to believe it. The game has been in development for years and it has a long way to go before being a complete game. 2-3 days of extra work is not going to make the game complete. If that was true, it should be in top shape by now.

No, instead of trying to blame the street retailers for this, Stardock should take responsibility for their own product and live up to the much touted Gamers Bill of Rights. At the very least they could give refunds to those of us who request it. I've sent a request for a refund through their website and so far the only response has been a reply where they ask me if I have technical problems that prevent the game from running. Is that supposed to mean that I can only get a refund if the game crashes on me all the time, but not due to the horribly unfinished state the game is in?

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Quoting ,

quoting post

2) Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Which doesn't imply that developers are forced release games in a finished state.

5) Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

Yeah, you can expect. It doesn't mean that it will happen (always, "shit happens" aside).

Developers also have rights, like "Developers can demand that Gamers don't pirate their games" or stuff. *shrug*

I feel that the only thing that Frogboy owes me is crash/bug fixes, plus year of free updates. An explanation would be nice but not compulsory (and certainly cannot compare in priority with the previous elements mentioned). Apology? Actions speak louder than words so I'll stick to the crash/bug fixes plus year of free updates.

Not trying to offend anyone here.

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"Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state."

So, when did people forget how to read the actual meaning of words?

You have the right to "demand" a game be in a finished state. Where has Stardock or Elemental in ANY WAY impeded your RIGHT to DEMAND a finished game. So, demand away. Demand all you want. Demand today demand tomorrow. I'm not sure I read anywhere that they would immediately submit to YOUR demand. Or did I miss that. Sorry that the game's not working great for you.

The game, for me, is in a finished state. By that I mean it runs, doesn't crash, and I enjoy it (though I'm looking forward to improvements/mods). So you cannot say with the absoluteness you've noted that the game is "broken." It's broken for those folks, and I'm sorry about that.

Did they have an article saying "We guarantee that our games will work on every single possible PC combination for all people"?? If so, THEN you can be pissed.

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Jeebus! How many threads like this do we have to see on here? We get it...some of you aren't happy. Guess what? Many of us are VERY happy. So do us all a favor and return your game...quietly.

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Your right #1 is to return the game. You should exercise that one instead of the continued whinery

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IBNobody

Join Date 03/2003

+146

Quoting Wintersong,

reply 4

I feel that the only thing that Frogboy owes me is crash/bug fixes, plus year of free updates. An explanation would be nice but not compulsory (and certainly cannot compare in priority with the previous elements mentioned). Apology? Actions speak louder than words so I'll stick to the crash/bug fixes plus year of free updates.

Not trying to offend anyone here.

I want my "year of free updates" to start after the game is released in a polished, stable, and somewhat balanced state.

I don't want them to cut their development cycle short 6 months just to give us a year of updates. We lose 6 months of updates!

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Quoting charon2112,

reply 6

Jeebus! How many threads like this do we have to see on here? We get it...some of you aren't happy. Guess what? Many of us are VERY happy. So do us all a favor and return your game...quietly.

This. Exactly. I'm sure the millionth "I hate the game. Stick to your gamers bill of rights" post is The One that makes them see the light and do whatever it takes to make YOU happy. Tsk tsk.

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Quoting Caduceus06,

reply 2

You're a couple of days behind, here.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392474

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392671

Yep. He's already apologized and explained himself, and he and his company are committed to improving the game for free until we're satisfied with it. I don't know what else you could reasonably expect. For that matter it's a hell of a lot more than you'd get from most other developers.

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Quoting charon2112,

reply 6

Jeebus! How many threads like this do we have to see on here? We get it...some of you aren't happy. Guess what? Many of us are VERY fanboys. So do us all a favor and return your game...quietly.

Fixed

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@charon

while many complaints are ill worded they have a basis and should be heard. personally i agree with the op although i don't think brad owes us anything. i just wish they keep up with their work so the game comes to level of sophistication that many of us expected in the first place.

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Quoting IBNobody,

reply 8

I want my "year of free updates" to start after the game is released in a polished, stable, and somewhat balanced state.

I don't want them to cut their development cycle short 6 months just to give us a year of updates. We lose 6 months of updates!

This is actually a pretty good point. But who are we/you to say when it's fully "polished, stable and balanced" if you used MY standards, I'm already happy with it (sorry my standards are lower/newber than yours)

But still, seeing from what Frogboy posted about v1.1, I'd say the year should start from the release of 1.1.

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This. Exactly. I'm sure the millionth "I hate the game. Stick to your gamers bill of rights" post is The One that makes them see the light and do whatever it takes to make YOU happy. Tsk tsk.

And it's all idiotic, because as I pointed out above, Right #1 in the GBOR is to be able to return the game if it doesn't function up to expectation. But no, it's obviously more fun to troll on the forums about the non-existant "finished state" that wasn't in the GBOR for something like a year or more (that was the language of the first draft, but was changed shortly after because the "finished state" is too ambiguous). But people still use it even though that line has been dead and buried for a year.

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Brad 'felt like' he owed us an explanation.. I had no expectations of any such statement prior to that, so we're way ahead on that.

Go Brad!.. Enjoy your vacation, please fix the AI and help tighten up the game as quickly as possible.. In the future you gotta pimp slap them executives and bean counters every now and then to get the quality you and your customers want upon release.

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ZzZzZz... getting sick of these I want an apology signed with Brad's blood posts. People seriously need to find another hobby.

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Quoting Annatar11,

reply 7

Your right #1 is to return the game. You should exercise that one instead of the continued whinery

I'm currently trying to do just that. So far unsuccesfully.

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All Brad owes the OP is his $50 back. so take it. That's MUCH more than any 'mainstream' game developer would ever get you. Good luck return a Civ game if you don't like it...

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Quoting Fallout386,

reply 16

ZzZzZz... getting sick of these I want an apology signed with Brad's blood posts. People seriously need to find another hobby.

At the very least, they could stop being so f'ing lazy and post their complaints on one of the MANY existing threads already dedicated to this. Another sign of the selfish need for these types of people to have everything spood fed to THEM instead of using the f'ing "Search" tool.

I totally support their right to gripe.. just do it without being a lazy bum.

It's almost as bad as the billion "OOM" threads people make... lazy bastids.

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I love that when a game is released unfinished and buggy that the folks who can run it say "Chill out and stop crying", good for you that your having fun but a lot of people arnt. I dont hate Stardock, i dont hate brad and i dont want to return a great game. What i do want is that a product that i purchase has a reasonable chance of actually working, i dont feel im being a troll or a cry baby. You folks goin "Waa waa waa they cant make it work on every system" are fools, the game breaking bugs were KNOWN by the devs which is why myself and many many others are a little bit miffed about the whole thing. You cant release an incompleat product and say "Hey relax guys we will patch it eventually, thanks for the cash btw", i know Stardock will patch it and support it because despite my agititation i still belive there a great company. But they have made a big mistake here and just because your experiance is ok doesnt make releasing a shoddy product ok.

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Quoting Annatar11,

reply 14

This. Exactly. I'm sure the millionth "I hate the game. Stick to your gamers bill of rights" post is The One that makes them see the light and do whatever it takes to make YOU happy. Tsk tsk.
And it's all idiotic, because as I pointed out above, Right #1 in the GBOR is to be able to return the game if it doesn't function up to expectation. But no, it's obviously more fun to troll on the forums about the non-existant "finished state" that wasn't in the GBOR for something like a year or more (that was the language of the first draft, but was changed shortly after because the "finished state" is too ambiguous). But people still use it even though that line has been dead and buried for a year.

QFT+++ Getting real tired of the crap as well.

Legitimate complaints about specific problems are all well and good as the serve the overall community's interest. Asking for blood and railing against the company in general (especially given it history) is unacceptable.

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Hell, who wants blood....lets nail him to a cross. I mean how DARE THEY!!!!!!!^$%^$%^!$#~!~!

That how it is supposed to look when foaming at the mouth?

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Quoting JesperEB,

reply 3

Quoting Caduceus06, reply 2You're a couple of days behind, here.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392474

https://forums.elementalgame.com/392671

All I see in those links are some poor attempts to blame every fault in the game on the broken street date. As if the those few days of lost work were the ones that would have allowed Stardock to magically transform the game to a finished product. Thats just not true and its pretty insulting to expect anyone to believe it. The game has been in development for years and it has a long way to go before being a complete game. 2-3 days of extra work is not going to make the game complete. If that was true, it should be in top shape by now.

No, instead of trying to blame the street retailers for this, Stardock should take responsibility for their own product and live up to the much touted Gamers Bill of Rights. At the very least they could give refunds to those of us who request it. I've sent a request for a refund through their website and so far the only response has been a reply where they ask me if I have technical problems that prevent the game from running. Is that supposed to mean that I can only get a refund if the game crashes on me all the time, but not due to the horribly unfinished state the game is in?

Hi, i'm Brad Wardell and i'm sorry. I hope this is sufficient.

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I thought I heard the fap fap fap of a fanboi.

Quoting Annatar11,

reply 7

Your right #1 is to return the game. You should exercise that one instead of the continued whinery

Oh the classic fanboi repartee .. this forum is just for elite bradbois only right???

RAT

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Quoting Kemsley,

reply 20

Yes many people are like that.. but ME, I'm just saying don't create 5 billion threads about the exact same f'ing thing. That's all.

I fully support their right to bitch,complain, gripe.. because most of them have very strong grounds for it.. just don't be so damn lazy and not spend 1 min using the lovely "Search" function.

That's all I'm saying. If I weren't able to play, I'd bitch and cry just as much, but I'd do it in one of the 10 gazillion existing threads (see how my numbers are growing, that's because of all the a-holes creating NEW posts).

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