Campaign Woes

By on August 23, 2010 8:10:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Storm

Join Date 05/2006
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I bring this up more because I am concerned casual or new players might get extremely frustrated with the campaign.

After 3 attempts at starting anew, I have tried to fight the little spider close to my starting city only to get wiped 3 times.  First time, I only took 3 guys but the other two times I took all 6 of the people you get to start early.  It's also a bit frustrating that the 3 generic farmers carry the team. None of my 3 'heroes' even land a hit on the spider.

Realizing that we're instructed to purchase weapons at the shop, however purchasing 3 items (clubs) for the team limits any construction on your starting city, unless the intent was for us to hit the 'end turn' button 20-30 times before going into combat.

It might be a really good idea to default the first heroes with a 1 attack item or at the very least Lord Relias.

Again, I am not trying to bash here, but rather offer some constructive help as I'm sure casual players and those new to a game like this will make the mistake of not purchasing gear which is apparently oh so important.

 

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August 23, 2010 9:42:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

well now, you could make some money and buy weapons for your heroes and then hit those spiders. Besides, why do you get the group op peasants if not to ground those early game spiders?

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August 23, 2010 10:00:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What are the stats on this Little Spider? Should you even be losing?

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August 23, 2010 10:02:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No need to be snarky. I know I could  sit and hit end turn for 30-40 turns for money, but that's not exactly what I would call fun.

You may have played in the beta, but I did not.  So this is my first attempt at playing elemental at all. My point simply was that purchasing equipment, then equipping it isn't exactly intuitive nor the importance of said equipment.  Many new to the game will likely run up to 1 tiny little spider with 4-5 guys thinking they can take him only to get wiped.

 

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August 23, 2010 10:04:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm pretty sure they tell you to buy some stuff first. The spider is very doable if you pick up a couple clubs from the shop after you make your city. You can afford one or two with just your starting money, don't need to wait.

I agree though, all heroes should start with very basic equipment - it makes no sense to start with 0 attack Sovereign/heroes.

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August 23, 2010 10:08:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This sort of thing is what made Elemental all but unplayable for me during the Beta. It never got very much better during that time and I'm not surprised that it's an issue in Day 0.

But Elemental, not unlike Gal Civ II, isn't a game that holds your hand. I wish it was. It's a game where YOU have to figure out how it works, what you have to do to succeed, etc. -- accessibility and wide appeal will not be its friend.

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August 23, 2010 10:13:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not snarky (whatever it means) and I haven't played the beta. You don't need to hit the end turn for 30-40 turns. A club is very very cheap to buy. I had the same problem about figuring out that I have to actually buy weapons and armor for my heroes, but I didn't have to restart 3-4 times to get it.

Besides, the campaign flows at a real slow pace. You have to do some quests before being able to venture forth on the map. So don't be hasty, take your time with your heroes' weaponry and stuff.

I think I would opt for a short tutorial describing the interface of the game and how the building, buying and equipping items, fighting and casting spells work.

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August 23, 2010 10:19:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,
I agree though, all heroes should start with very basic equipment - it makes no sense to start with 0 attack Sovereign/heroes.
I think that as part of the backstory of the campaign is makes sense to have nothing.

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August 23, 2010 10:27:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think that as part of the backstory of the campaign is makes sense to have nothing.

Not really, when your ship crashes you should easily be able to find a broken off plank of wood to use as a club

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August 23, 2010 10:34:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting gabisar,
I'm not snarky (whatever it means) and I haven't played the beta. You don't need to hit the end turn for 30-40 turns. A club is very very cheap to buy. I had the same problem about figuring out that I have to actually buy weapons and armor for my heroes, but I didn't have to restart 3-4 times to get it.

Besides, the campaign flows at a real slow pace. You have to do some quests before being able to venture forth on the map. So don't be hasty, take your time with your heroes' weaponry and stuff.

I think I would opt for a short tutorial describing the interface of the game and how the building, buying and equipping items, fighting and casting spells work.

 

I agree it would be nice to have a true tutorial that introduces the interface.

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August 23, 2010 10:43:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,
Not really, when your ship crashes you should easily be able to find a broken off plank of wood to use as a club
point.

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August 23, 2010 10:50:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Biggest woe I have with the campaign is that by turn 3000 or so it has frozen up.  I can move jerkily around the map, I can view things but it will not allow my soveriegn and his stack to move nor will it let me progress the turn any further.

The massive slowdown on it makes me think there must be a memory leak somewhere as prior to this it was fine and closing the game restarting/reloading makes no difference as far as the camapaign goes.

 

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August 23, 2010 10:55:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Storm: The tutorial portion of the campaign is one of the big tweaks we made to it for day 0...no videos or anything, but consiterably more feedback for the beginning user. 

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August 23, 2010 11:06:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The Campaign logbook in the Kingdom report screen is a great place to stick stuff like that in.. just need to make it obvious to the user with a popup first on how to get to it

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August 23, 2010 11:11:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Anny: Yeah, once again horrible communication on our part...we really need to overcome that shortcoming in our games (read: devote more polish time to explaining the game to users).

The new Day0 tutorial popups are a step in the right direction, and I'll make sure that campaign logbook is explained to users as well.

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August 23, 2010 11:23:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Boogie If I may make another suggestion - please make it more obvious to the user exactly what they should be doing to advance the campaign. At the moment, it's a little more like wandering around until you trigger something. The "Chapter" books are nice, but they mostly tell a story rather than give you a specific objective.

This is especially evident in the very beginning. After you found your city, you're told nothing. If you remember the intro you know you have to go warn someone, but the game just doesn't tell you. Something like "Now that you have a settlement and some weapons, it's time to seek out Procipine (sp) to warn her about the threat. Her Kingdom is to the East.."

Also, speaking of directions - they were written it looks like based on a map positioned upright with corresponding North/South. However, Elemental's default camera is on the side, so the directions do not correspond. Often when the book says something is "east", for the default camera it's actually "north", for example.

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August 23, 2010 11:31:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BoogieBac,
Anny: Yeah, once again horrible communication on our part...we really need to overcome that shortcoming in our games (read: devote more polish time to explaining the game to users).

The new Day0 tutorial popups are a step in the right direction, and I'll make sure that campaign logbook is explained to users as well.

 

Thanks for the updates. I did run into a campaign ending bug.  For some reason, despite getting 50 crystal and trading 25 of it to Capitar the game will not let me progress north.  Guess I'll try my hand at a random map.

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August 23, 2010 5:03:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I got past the 25 crystal part (did you go east to the Capitar Fortifications?), but I'm also stuck in the campaign.  After being told to split my army, I ended up warning the other kingdoms in the wrong order and now it won't update the campaign log for the last two.  Has anyone else run into this?  

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August 23, 2010 5:06:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I got past the 25 crystal part (did you go east to the Capitar Fortifications?), but I'm also stuck in the campaign. After being told to split my army, I ended up warning the other kingdoms in the wrong order and now it won't update the campaign log for the last two. Has anyone else run into this?

I don't believe that's actually an issue, but there's something else you need to do to progress that may not be entirely clear. PM me if you want more info since it may be a spoiler.

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August 23, 2010 5:17:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am stuck on the 25 crystal part.  I've placed a settlement, but getting the crystal is a matter I can't figure out.

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August 23, 2010 5:20:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Select the crystal deposit nearby, and you'll have a button to build the improvement to harvest it.

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August 23, 2010 5:22:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Without spoiling anything, i have advanced quite a bit in the campaign, and:

 

  • Little spider and big spider at the start: Buy 2 clubs and equip them. Use the farmers as fodder and youll kill them easily.
  • Use your farmers to attack first (to spend the enemies couterattack) before attacking with your companions.
  • Bigger enemies: (hint hint big scaled thing with 40+ defense) lure them onto -25% def plots in the tac terrain to kill them while having your units in the +50 def plots.
  • Use your summoned familiar as an expendable unit.
  • Focus your archers on low def units first. No use wasting 10 shots to score "miss" only.
  • Don't rush your melee in. Pepper the enemy with spells/archers whenever you have range/spell superiority.
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August 23, 2010 6:33:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"- please make it more obvious to the user exactly what they should be doing to advance the campaign. At the moment, it's a little more like wandering around until you trigger something. The "Chapter" books are nice, but they mostly tell a story rather than give you a specific objective."

 

I very much second this. Particularly as most players will be using the campaign as their introduction to the game, it really should do a lot more handholding. At the very least, there should be a log somewhere which stores the instructions you receive from people.

 

Anyway, I too am stuck near the Capitar Fortifications area, and I'm not sure if it's a bug or not.

SPOILERS FOLLOW (highlight text to read):

I found the survivor of the Kandrir assault (I think - but it's still giving me the false path message if I try to go West). And now it's telling me to go back to Kandrir to find the Tome of Dend'rir. Well, if I go back to what I think is Kandrir (the place where I got the survivor quest), nothing happens. If I push past the false path messages, I get to the Obsidian Wall, but I can't do anything about it. Am I wrong about what Kandrir is?

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August 23, 2010 6:59:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,
Select the crystal deposit nearby, and you'll have a button to build the improvement to harvest it.

 

Wow! Talk about a complete Village Idiot Moment.  I thought all the building was thru the town/village interface. *facepalm* 

 

Thanks for the help!

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August 23, 2010 11:03:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ginger Yellow,
"- please make it more obvious to the user exactly what they should be doing to advance the campaign. At the moment, it's a little more like wandering around until you trigger something. The "Chapter" books are nice, but they mostly tell a story rather than give you a specific objective."

 

I very much second this. Particularly as most players will be using the campaign as their introduction to the game, it really should do a lot more handholding. At the very least, there should be a log somewhere which stores the instructions you receive from people.

 

Anyway, I too am stuck near the Capitar Fortifications area, and I'm not sure if it's a bug or not.

SPOILERS FOLLOW (highlight text to read):

I found the survivor of the Kandrir assault (I think - but it's still giving me the false path message if I try to go West). And now it's telling me to go back to Kandrir to find the Tome of Dend'rir. Well, if I go back to what I think is Kandrir (the place where I got the survivor quest), nothing happens. If I push past the false path messages, I get to the Obsidian Wall, but I can't do anything about it. Am I wrong about what Kandrir is?

 

 

You need to go back to the first set of footprints.

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August 23, 2010 11:10:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

EDIT: Deleted my query regarding the 25 crystal shard quest as someone else has posted a thread confirming my problem.

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