_Scooter_

Join Date 04/2008

+12

[3C] [Gameplay] First impressions

Learning cliff needs work

I installed the beta yesterday, and spent ~10 hours or so experimenting and trying to get a handle on the game.

Some initial thoughts follow, and then some questions that others can hopefully answer.

1. The game has a steep learning curve. It takes only a little while to figure out the really core mechanics, but it takes a lot longer to work out anything like a good strategy. It also took me a while to figure out things like the fact that pioneers could build structures on unconnected resources.
I hope the full version has some kind of campaign on pre-made maps with helpful suggestions that actually teach you how to play; this game is quite different from other 4X games (which is a good thing), but it needs more mouseover text and hints to help teach the player how to play.

2. The map generator needs work. I had multiple maps where I only had a tiny area accessible and was blocked off from the rest of the world by mountains and ocean. I had one start even where I started at the end of a peninsula with one empty tile, 1 farm tile, and then an impassible channel separating me from the rest of the world.

3. The world feels very empty. Many maps have large stretches of barren wasteland, with nothing useful around at all. Cities seem to have to be a loooong way apart. Is it even really possible to build a city somewhere that isn't near a food resource, which appear to be very rare?

4. The economy seems odd. It seemed hard to get gold until I built a palace, and then gold was just flowing in like crazy.

5. Many spell descriptions are insufficient. "Damages the enemy" or "summons a mighty creature" are not good enough. How much damage? What stats and abilities does the creature have?

6. Stability is pretty bad. Lots of crashes, particularly any time I try to load a game while already in a game, or start a new game while already in a game.

7. Captured Empire towns keep all their Empire buildings while I am able to build a full set of Kingdom buildings too. This is a balance nightmare.

8. Quest balance seems weird. I went for an adventurey tech path, and got a quest that gave me a Red Dragon, which could then obliterate anything else on the map. Also, there don't seem to be enough different quests in the game yet, but presumably this will change over time.

9. In general the power curve feels off; in both economy and in military, the exponential rate of power growth feels too overwhelming.

10. Some minor bugs:

Mining tech doesn't seem to do anything.
Burn enemy and firestorm appear to be bugged; they say they do X% damage, but actually seem to do X damage.
Ironeers and any designs based on them seem to be unbuildable - and its unclear how they differ from peasant bases.

Questions I haven't quite figured out yet:

a) What do shards actually do? I build the shrine and I see that I know have that shard... but how does that help me?

What do caravans do? They appear to be moving resources around - where does this come from? Do cities just need to connect to the capital, or to each other? Where is their income reported? Is only a single caravan needed to connect any two cities, or are there returns from more caravans?

c) How do I get a champion? I see several references to this, but I don't see how to get one. I've have inventors, farmers, merchants etc. but no champions. I saw a handful of adventurers for hire in the early game, but they all disappeared (and were very expensive to hire in the early game).

d) Why would I want to give essence to a champion (and thus reduce my sovereign's mana pool)? Does this let them cast spells?

f) How does essence work? I seem to recall from various previews that there were supposed to be various tradeoff ways in which I could spend essence - how do I do that, and what are the tradeoffs? It seems like essence is just a mana pool. That refreshes over time.

g) Why would I want to put points on my sovereign on anything except essence and intelligence? They're rapidly outclassed in melee by constructed combat units.

h) For the various summoned magical creatures - do they have some kind of upkeep cost?

Anyway, the game looks promising, but is still very incomplete.

I'll post more thoughts once I figure out how to play a bit better.

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Lets see if I can answer a few of these questions for you.

a) What do shards actually do? I build the shrine and I see that I know have that shard... but how does that help me?

Someone who has been playing longer than me might have to correct me as I'm not too sure, but as I understand it, later level spells require certain shards to be able to cast.

b. What do caravans do? They appear to be moving resources around - where does this come from? Do cities just need to connect to the capital, or to each other? Where is their income reported? Is only a single caravan needed to connect any two cities, or are there returns from more caravans?

From what I've seen, it doesn't matter where the cities are connected and it just takes a single caravan to connect two cities. You can click on the traders/caravans moving along the road after the first caravan establishes the connection to see what they're moving. What exactly do caravans do, I'm not quite sure.

The inventors, farmers, merchants etc that you're referring too are your champions. I'll elaborate more on this in the answer to the next question.

d) Why would I want to give essence to a champion (and thus reduce my sovereign's mana pool)? Does this let them cast spells?

Yes, it lets them cast spells. Pretty much each spell except for the Teleport spells. It gives them 5 mana, but this mana can be increased using the Refined Channeling research with the Kingdoms (haven't figured out the Imperial counterpart yet). Furthermore, you can train your "champions" increasing their level and then increasing their mana pool and intelligence. Considering they can cast 3 spells a turn in a tactical battle, and with an intelligence of 15 or so, they can one hit any defending unit human unit that isn't a party or something like that.

I'm not really sure where to get Crystals from, but I've noticed that NPC (not rival factions) cities when conquered give crystal. I want to say Gemstone Mines provides Crystals, but I forgot to look last time I had a gemstone mine.

Easiest way to explain it from my perspective, Essence is your mana max. When you cast spells, you're using your mana which will regenerate a little bit each turn. But when you use spells like Imbue Hero, you sacrificing Essence, decreasing your mana max.

g) Why would I want to put points on my sovereign on anything except essence and intelligence? They're rapidly outclassed in melee by constructed combat units.

I wouldn't really say that. In a tactical battle, you don't regenerate mana, so after your first 6 (depending on your mana on hand and spells you are using) or so spells, you're out of mana for the rest of the match. If the enemy had more than 6 units, then you're going to need something else to fight with. Of course, in the current build you just need a bow and you're fine, but that's only because bows are overpowered. Once that's fixed, then there will be a reason not just get intelligence and essence. Also, my last point, your magic won't do much for you against a Squad or Company of troops. Especially a Squad or Company of Archers.

h) For the various summoned magical creatures - do they have some kind of upkeep cost?

I don't know, but I don't think so. However, you still seem to lose those units when your Gildar goes negative.

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Thanks very much for the response.

The inventors, farmers, merchants etc that you're referring too are your champions

Huh. This needs to be made abundantly clear to the player. If I hire a farmer, whose only stated ability is to increase my food income, its just not logical to the player that they're supposed to be channeling essence into them and turning them into champions.

So whats the difference between these guys and an Adventurer? Just that an Adventurer (like the Sovereign) can also investigate Adventure sites on the map?

I want to say Gemstone Mines provides Crystals

Gemstone mine seems to increase mana recovery rate.

Ok, but I seem to remember from the early previews of this game that essence could be spent on things like magical effects in your domain (making your guys more productive) or building more cities, or transforming terrain somehow, so how you allocated your essence was critical.

Were these removed or not implemented yet, or am I missing something?

Also, my last point, your magic won't do much for you against a Squad or Company of troops. Especially a Squad or Company of Archers.

Right, but it still seems like it would be better to give him armor and keep up meat-shields around him and have him throwing spells. He doesn't seem to be that useful in combat after the early game anyway, because of low hit points.

I don't know, but I don't think so.

So, if I don't have anything better to do with my mana points, I should just be constantly spamming summon spells to make a summoned army?

*edit*

Another thing; I noticed a spell that mentioned morale, but I don't see any sign of a morale system.

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They're rapidly outclassed in melee by constructed combat units.

I think the opposite.

I now play with a 15 Str,Dex,Con sovereign with 5 everywhere else, startign with some weapons.

He can clear a Medium map all by himself without ever casting a spell, just going melee.

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Man, I wish I could answer your questions more, but I've had the beta a couple days and I haven't been lurking the forums that much yet. And at the moment, there isn't a single meat shield that can handle a hit from a Company of Archers. Nothing that I've been able has 1500 HP, and that's the amount of damage a Company of Archers will deal. And they get to shoot 3 times in a turn.

I can, however, answer the Morale question though. Morale only exists in Tactical battles, and what happens is when you enter a battle, you have like 5 or 6 turns (I don't know) until the Attacker's morale starts to drop, and at that point they get weaker. Also, as for using Essence... I haven't figured out the distingustion between using Essence (aka Mana) and losing Essence. As far as I can tell, everything you're talking about can be done in the game, but as far as I can see, only Imbue Hero/Create Spellcaster will make you lose Essence.

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a) What do shards actually do? I build the shrine and I see that I know have that shard... but how does that help me?

Someone who has been playing longer than me might have to correct me as I'm not too sure, but as I understand it, later level spells require certain shards to be able to cast.

Yes, shards are required for some spells. Which spells, how many, etc keeps changing. As far as I know there is no other use for them.

e) Early magic techs give me all kinds of artifacts and things, but no real way to build them. I still haven't seen any way to get crystals - where do they come from? Is the idea that these techs are giving me the ability to buy these?

I'm not really sure where to get Crystals from, but I've noticed that NPC (not rival factions) cities when conquered give crystal. I want to say Gemstone Mines provides Crystals, but I forgot to look last time I had a gemstone mine.

There are resources that allow you to mine crystals. I think they are just called Crystals but seem to be very rare. I had one in my last game but that was the first time I've seem them in about 5 games. I assume they will be more abundant in the future.

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Publius of NV

Join Date 08/2002

+231

In 3C caravans are described as increasing the economic output of a city by 10%. I haven't been able to experimentally verify that the 10% figure is accurate, but they do seem to increase income, and multiple caravans seem to stack the effect.

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The mapscript *definitely* needs work. Had another game with a few items around the city, and a huge rest of continent that was totally devoid of any resource tiles at all. Where am I supposed to build another city??

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